New owner, help me understand my guinea pigs...do they hate each other?

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BlueWRXPride

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My family and I got our first guinea pigs about 3 weeks ago from the local SPCA. They are about 2 years old, and were at the shelter together as a pair. We brought them home and while they have certainly gotten more used to us, they still seem quite skittish. They retreat into their hides when we pick them up, but when they're out of their cage on the ground with us, they don't seem uncomfortable. They'll walk around, but their paws up on our legs, etc. If they're out of their hides and we walk into the room, they often (but not always) will immediately run into their hides. Is it expected that they still are this skittish around us? Will that improve? In hindsight, after reading more, we probably should have waited before handling them, so hopefully we didn't make any mistakes with lasting impact.

My other concern is that it seems like the two of them are fighting a lot. There has never been a case of a real fight where they draw blood, but to my untrained eye they seem to agitate each other. Mostly it's the white one bugging the other. I took a few videos to help get some input from the community:

Video 1 - I'm having a hard time interpreting the sounds they're making.
Video 2
Video 3 - this one shows a common behavior when Pickles (the white one) is eating the Piggy wants to come join. She seems very intimidated.
Video 4 - here Piggy is in the cake hide and Pickles is right outside the door. Piggy is making some squeaking sounds, and at one point Piggy lunges at her and Piggy makes quite the squeal

Anyway, I appreciate any advice!
 
Welcome to the forum

Are the both female?

Yes it is expected that they are skittish. Running into hides when you pick them up or when you approach is very normal - piggies generally don’t like being picked up and not with bare hands. We recommend they are herded into a hide or carrier and pick up from there, it tends to be less stressful for them.
Three weeks is a very short space of time though - it can take weeks to months for them to really settle in. One of mine took a year and a half!
Whether it improves depends entirely on the pigs - some are more confident from the beginning (I have one like that), some gain confidence in time (I have one like that). Some learn to enjoy a cuddle and some never want to be touched (I have two like that!).

Regarding the videos :

From these clips I am seeing dominance and not bond issues between them. Dominance is very normal and not fighting.
As sows they will come into season every two weeks and you will see an increase in dominance during this time.

What I am can see though is that the cage is very cramped with no open space for them to easily pass each other or to move around.
I appreciate that it is a Midwest which is 120x60cm so meets minimum cage size for two sows, but having that divider and ramp really cuts into the space, effectively halving it, and their ability to freely move around. You run the risk of there being problems and tensions with them in this cage due to a lot of dead ends and potential for one to trap the other somewhere.
You want a single level cage with lots of open space between hides for free movement away from each other. All hides need to two exits and you need to have multiple of everything in the cage.
I will add some links to our gallery below.

Video 4 particularly highlights the issue with single exit hides. One pig looks to go inside but the other pig is already in there (the dominant pig will get her way) and there is the risk of defensive injuries where one pig cannot get out.

daftscotslass

Thread 'Member Gallery: C&C cages/homemade cages'

C&C and homemade member cages


Please use this thread to post pictures of your C&C cages or other similar home-made housing. Try to include some information with the photo like:

Cage Type
Where it was purchased or how it was made
What size it is
How many piggies are kept in it
How easy it is to keep clean/if you'd recommend it

Bear in mind that new members will look to this thread as an example of good piggy keeping so photos of accommodation that is inadequately sized, dirty or overcrowded may be removed at the discretion of admin.

This thread is NOT for...
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boureki

Thread 'Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs'

1 List of dominance behaviours in ascending order of aggression
2 What may cause this type of behaviour in boars?
3 When do you see these behaviours in sows?
4 What can trigger fall-outs?
5 Further helpful guide links


I thought it may be handy to have a sticky on typical dominance behaviours for a reference - hopefully it may help humans understand guinea pigs and their behaviour a bit more and hopefully prevent some avoidable problems!


1 List of dominance behaviours...
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Wiebke

Thread 'Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including mounting and ovarian cysts)'

1 Sexing on arrival
2 Important reproductive Facts
- Start of making babies - seasons - lack of menopause
- Pregnancy
3 Sows in season
- How a season runs
- Strong seasons (snap seasons; the social role of strong seasons; problem seasons)
4 Behaviour and social aspects
- Bonding (Possible combos; acceptance and dating; special bonding aspects)
-...
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Wiebke

Thread 'New Owners' Essential Information and Practical Tips Starter Collection'

Contents Overview
1 What This Collection Is About
2 Guinea Pigs as Pets
- Family and Classroom Pets
- Sourcing Your Guinea Pigs, Common Pitfalls and Your Customer Rights
- Human Pet Anxiety: Practical Tips for Sufferers and Supporters
- Naming and Finding Out the Breed
- Guinea Pig Facts: An Overview
3 Living Environment
- Housing (with sourcing tips)
- Bedding (with...
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Thank you, that's very informative. Yes they are both female. I do have a few follow-up questions.
  • I had read somewhere that having a separate eating/pooping area is helpful as it keeps the mess on one side, but I could try removing the barrier and see how that changes their behavior.
  • I can experiment with swapping out some of the hides for things with 2 exits, but how sensitive do I need to be to changing their cage too much, will the change itself cause them stress?
 
Also, can you help interpret some of the sounds in those videos? I'd like to be more aware of what they're communicating.
 
In my experience, there is no such thing as separating eating and pooping areas with guinea pigs; the first thing my girls do with a fresh pile of hay is climb on top of it and poop or pee on it. All efforts to keep their home tidy are fruitless; they like it being a mess. They like MAKING it a mess.

They'd probably find changes to their cage more interesting than anything, they're quite curious critters. Simply turning a hidey to face a different direction makes it suddenly very interesting to my two. So long as you're not 100% removing all of their scent from every item they own every single time you clean out their cage, so they recognise it is 'home' by their smell, and not some new territory, they'll be fine. You have to worry about stuff like that more with males than females.

The sounds in the video #1 and #3 mostly sounds like a mix of normal guinea-pig 'talk' and a bit of complaining about what the other one is getting up to. I hear it often from my two but they are good friends, they're usually more talkative and whingey like that when one or both is in season and they start doing dominance displays like those in the video and pestering each other. It stops after a day or two when their season ends.

Video #4, you one have one guinea pig submission squealing to the other, basically saying 'You're the boss! I know my place.'
 
BlueWRXPride said:
I wanted to come back with a quick update. I removed the divider, and gave them a new box with 2 entrances cut into it, and they seem to be enjoying their home much more now. Less bickering between the two and more exploring of their area. Thanks for the help!
Click to expand...
Great news!
 
I think a lot of people incorrectly assume all pigs like being held and will be lap pigs. Get them a bit used to it for stuff like nail clipping, hair trimming and potential vet visits, but it'll need bribery. Pellets and pea flakes are our local currencies.

We've had our girls since May and one still screams like an air raid siren whenever picked up.
 
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