New 10 week old guinea pigs constantly rumble-strutting - help!

[emilybanister]

Hey everyone,
We brought home two guinea pig boars (Horace and Boris) at the weekend. We bought them from pets at home (which I know was probably not the best place to get them from - sorry!) and bought the 'large' cage which is 120cmx45cm. Bought two of everything. Have since realised that this cage is too small for two boars so have ordered a 140cmx60cm one, which I think should be better. We live in a small flat and I don't think i could fit much bigger in the living room but hoping this new one will be okay. To be fair to PaH they are giving us a refund as I rang up to complain we were mis-sold the original one as it will not be big enough for them fully grown. I also didn't want one without a lid as when we visit family there will be dogs around so thought a lid would be safer!
Anyway, they seem to be settling in well and we have had them out for a handle tonight. I am a vet student (although still a newbie to guinea pig ownership, other than having them as a kid), so think I am doing the basic husbandry stuff right, now I have ordered the new cage. The only thing I am worried about is they seem to be constantly rumble strutting at each other. They are only 10 weeks old and I thought this behaviour came later? I haven't seen any fighting and there has been no injuries but it really is constant! I am not sure who the initiator is, but Horace is the more confident one so far and he has been popcorning a lot. Sometimes they rumble strut near the door to one of their hidey houses, or near food (although there are many food bowls so they don't need to fight over one), other times it seems to be random and then they run around the cage, and Horace will popcorn. Sometimes they don't do the 'strutting' just the noise!
Not sure if they are brothers or not, but they were kept in the same pen at PaH
I so want to do the best for them, and just worried that they aren't getting on. They both come out to eat and drink okay, i don't think either is being stopped from accessing anything.
Is this normal for the first few days whilst they establish dominance? Or is it a sign that they aren't going to bond very well together?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Welcome to the forum

Rumbling very normal and while it is more prevalent during the teens, they will do it throughout life. My four year old boars love nothing more than a rumble!

At this point, your piggies are in a period of reestablishing their relationship. This happens whenever there is an environment or territory change - even if the piggies have always been together. It will take around two weeks for this to happen. By that time, they will almost be at the point of entering their teens, so you will be seeing this for many months to come.
You will likely notice it happen when they move to their new cage also.
It can help minimise the impact if you use soiled bedding from their current cage in their new cage as it will mean the new cage also smells like them.
Hopefully they will be ok in the new cage and it’s brilliant you’ve got them a new cage to give them more room, but do keep an eye on things. Ideally boars are kept in a cage of 180x60cm but the minimum for two boars 150x60cm - they are more territorial and do need more room (the welfare minimum for two pigs is 120x60cm but this would be too small for two boars). I appreciate you may not be able to give them more though.

It’s great you have multiple of every item but do also ensure that all the hides have two doors. Single entry hides can be a point of tension or fights if one piggy stops the other from entering or traps the other inside.

A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

 

[Siikibam]

Welcome. You are in for a treat! I would also strongly suggest you sex your new boys. Unfortunately some P@H have been known to missex piggies. Also get them booked in with the vet for a weeks’ time. I know that’s not what you asked about but thought I’d throw it in there. Hope you don’t mind.

We’d love to see some photos, if you want to post some.

Illustrated Sexing Guide
Recommended Guinea Pig Vets

PS to give them more room, is it possible for you to set up a play pen around their cage that they’d have access to 14/7? That would increase the floor space without buying another cage. Well done for getting a bigger one for them though

 

[emilybanister]

Hey, thanks for the replies! I think getting them vet checked is a great idea I will definitely book that in. To be fair, I could probably sex them myself and I should really be okay to do a health check (I graduate as a vet next year!) but would be good to establish a relationship with a local vet anyway, will try and find one with an exotics bias, as I know from experience we really do not get taught a lot about anything smaller than a rabbit!
Yes, I did really want to get a massive 180cm one but we just won't be able to fit it in the flat, 140cm by 60 is the biggest we could get in. The only place we could potentially squeeze it in would be the spare room but I don't like the idea of them not having as much to look at, whereas I am in the living room/kitchen all the time (where they are now). Even in the spare room 180cm would be too big I think. We move to a slightly bigger place in July so will not hesitate to get a bigger one if they don't settle in the 140cm (hoping this will do them for at least a few months given they are sill young). One of their hideys does only have one door so will definitely look at replacing it (again, this was a wooden one pets at home sold me!). PaH told me this 'large' 110cm long cage would be fine for them both, it is a good thing I do my research and discovered it wasn't, dread to think how many boar pairs are kept in this their whole lives by people who just go with what they are told.
I am glad all this rumbling is relatively normal, I don't mind the noise whatsoever just really wanting them to get along. They are eating from the same bowl quite happily as I type this so it can't be all bad

 

[Bill & Ted]

Welcome to the forum
Could you call the company where you’ve ordered the 140 and ask if you could swap to 160 cm, before they send it out? This would be adequate for most pairs of boars. Sorry you have been mis-sold your first cage. You can shatter food around the cage instead of having bowls, it makes it fun for them it find it and there’s little chance of anyone hogging bowls and everyone gets their fair share x
Boars are lovely, fun, daft and quite exciting at times, enjoy!

 

[emilybanister]

Welcome to the forum
Could you call the company where you’ve ordered the 140 and ask if you could swap to 160 cm, before they send it out? This would be adequate for most pairs of boars. Sorry you have been mis-sold your first cage. You can shatter food around the cage instead of having bowls, it makes it fun for them it find it and there’s little chance of anyone hogging bowls and everyone gets their fair share x
Boars are lovely, fun, daft and quite exciting at times, enjoy!

Hey! I’ve just looked into it and I don’t think they can change my order now. I thought that 140 would be an okay size from why I’ve read online, but now I’m thinking I should have ordered even bigger (although as I said before space is very limited). I’ll see how they get on in the 140 (they’re only 10 weeks old at the moment), and as I said if it’s not working then I’ll try to sell that one and get the bigger one.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Piggies&buns]

Hey! I’ve just looked into it and I don’t think they can change my order now. I thought that 140 would be an okay size from why I’ve read online, but now I’m thinking I should have ordered even bigger (although as I said before space is very limited). I’ll see how they get on in the 140 (they’re only 10 weeks old at the moment), and as I said if it’s not working then I’ll try to sell that one and get the bigger one.

Thanks for the advice!

You’re doing well, and we are here to support you.

The problem is, they may only be small now, but their territory needs are still the same as older piggies and changing territory in boars too often is not recommended - they will reestablish in each new territory (mostly in well compatible pairs, it will just cause a few days/weeks dominance and then it’ll settle, but where there is any mismatch or underlying issue in bond, changing territory and not having enough space can be the final straw). Hence why we say get them the biggest cage possible from the beginning. If they don’t have enough space, then by the time you find out, it could be too late to save their relationship by getting a bigger cage. They will turn teenagers in 6 weeks time and things will become a lot more hormonal and that is when plenty of space to get away from each other really counts
That’s not to say yours won’t be ok in the 140 (i just know from my experience my original 150 was too small for my then teen boars) but it would be amiss of us not to let you know.

 

[emilybanister]

You’re doing well, and we are here to support you.

The problem is, they may only be small now, but their territory needs are still the same as older piggies and changing territory in boars too often is not recommended - they will reestablish in each new territory (mostly in well compatible pairs, it will just cause a few days/weeks dominance and then it’ll settle, but where there is any mismatch or underlying issue in bond, changing territory and not having enough space can be the final straw). Hence why we say get them the biggest cage possible from the beginning. If they don’t have enough space, then by the time you find out, it could be too late to save their relationship by getting a bigger cage. They will turn teenagers in 6 weeks time and things will become a lot more hormonal and that is when plenty of space to get away from each other really counts
That’s not to say yours won’t be ok in the 140 (i just know from my experience my original 150 was too small for my then teen boars) but it would be amiss of us not to let you know.

Yes no I completely see what you mean. The company can’t change it but they might be able to cancel it and refund me, at which point I can then buy the 160. Space is an issue but I guess if I have to split them and buy two separate cages then that’s going to take up more space!

 

[Piggies&buns]

It would be of benefit to the boys if you could return/refund and find a way to squeeze a 160 in. I appreciate that may not be easy at present.

Would a c&c cage be an option? They are wider as they need to be 2 grids wide which comes to 77cm but they are flexible in that they can be made into different shapes to fit a space. They can also have lids fitted to them.
(obviously without knowing the actual space you have to play with…it may not be possible)

 

[emilybanister]

It would be of benefit to the boys if you could return/refund and find a way to squeeze a 160 in. I appreciate that may not be easy at present.

Would a c&c cage be an option? They are wider as they need to be 2 grids wide which comes to 77cm but they are flexible in that they can be made into different shapes to fit a space. They can also have lids fitted to them.
(obviously without knowing the actual space you have to play with…it may not be possible)

I am waiting to hear from them and if the cancellation goes through fine I will get the bigger one for sure (can't really afford to order the other one until they cancel this order ideally!) I did look at C&C but they would definitely be too wide unfortunately. The space they are in now is quite long up against a wall so I think we could get the length but not the width. We also have bought loads of shavings and I don't think C&C are great for shavings as their bases seem quite shallow?

 

[Piggies&buns]

I am waiting to hear from them and if the cancellation goes through fine I will get the bigger one for sure (can't really afford to order the other one until they cancel this order ideally!) I did look at C&C but they would definitely be too wide unfortunately. The space they are in now is quite long up against a wall so I think we could get the length but not the width. We also have bought loads of shavings and I don't think C&C are great for shavings as their bases seem quite shallow?

Depends on the base - correx bases can be higher sided than a commercial cage, and if not, additional correx can be added. Generally the c&c kit from a well recommended uk c&c company, if I remember rightly, is 15cm

 

[emilybanister]

Depends on the base - correx bases can be higher sided than a commercial cage, and if not, additional correx can be added. Generally the c&c kit from a well recommended uk c&c company, if I remember rightly, is 15cm

I've ordered the 160x60 one now thanks for the advice, I am really excited for them to have plenty of space (my boyfriend is going to kill me when he sees how much of our living room is turning into guinea pig land ahaha!)

 

[flowerfairy]

I am currently in the process of downsizing to a place half the size of where I live now. Got to somehow fit in three 10 x 6 foot rabbit enclosures and a guinea pig set up for two sows and a boar. So I sympathise re the space issue.

I use fleece as bedding for my guinea pigs, except in their hay trays where I put newspaper and hay plus a magazine rack as an off the floor hay place.

 

[Lorcan]

Please excuse the state of the cage but I use shavings (usually with fleece, but not always) in the C&C. It's a bit of a hack job but I basically cut a length of correx into strips and attached them round the edges of the cage to stop the woodshavings from constantly falling out. It's not completely successful but it does work fairly well.

 

[emilybanister]

I am currently in the process of downsizing to a place half the size of where I live now. Got to somehow fit in three 10 x 6 foot rabbit enclosures and a guinea pig set up for two sows and a boar. So I sympathise re the space issue.

I use fleece as bedding for my guinea pigs, except in their hay trays where I put newspaper and hay plus a magazine rack as an off the floor hay place.

Yes it’s a struggle, that sounds like a lot to squeeze in! Our flat itself is a decent size but it’s on open plan living/kitchen and the kitchen takes up post of the space, the living area is a bit of a postage stamp. I hate the idea of them being in the spare bedroom only because we are never in there and I feel like they would get bored (maybe they wouldn’t care that much, especially at the moment went they hide every time I come in, but in the long run think it’s nicer for them to be around us more and have things to look at/hear)

 

[Lorcan]

Yes it’s a struggle, that sounds like a lot to squeeze in! Our flat itself is a decent size but it’s on open plan living/kitchen and the kitchen takes up post of the space, the living area is a bit of a postage stamp. I hate the idea of them being in the spare bedroom only because we are never in there and I feel like they would get bored (maybe they wouldn’t care that much, especially at the moment went they hide every time I come in, but in the long run think it’s nicer for them to be around us more and have things to look at/hear)

honestly as having had guineas in a separate room AND guineas in the main room - while I find it's easier to socialise them when they're in the living room, getting used to hearing different voices and being able to come out and say hello on their own terms, I now have mine in the spare bedroom and it's working well. I do have to say hello before I come round the door or they freak out a little but I pop in and say hello regularly. Going downstairs, coming upstairs, basically any time I leave or come back to my room.

I'll move them to the living room once the weather warms up, but I no longer feel they're missing out by not being there already.

 

[flowerfairy]

My 4 indoor rabbits and my herd of 3 guinea pigs all live in the dining room, opposite the kitchen. Kind of out of the way but easy to visit them and see how cute they are!

 

[Tigermoth]

Please excuse the state of the cage but I use shavings (usually with fleece, but not always) in the C&C. It's a bit of a hack job but I basically cut a length of correx into strips and attached them round the edges of the cage to stop the woodshavings from constantly falling out. It's not completely successful but it does work fairly well.


View attachment 199790

Totally OT but what the heck is going on here? Have those piggies got all four feet off the ground?

 

[Lorcan]

Totally OT but what the heck is going on here? Have those piggies got all four feet off the ground?

You think that's bad, you should see them when they've (well, Bann specifically, Camowen's not so bad) fully stretched out. Bann can almost get his head over the top bar.

 

[Tigermoth]

You think that's bad, you should see them when they've (well, Bann specifically, Camowen's not so bad) fully stretched out. Bann can almost get his head over the top bar.

So are the back feet climbing up then? Eep!

 

[Lorcan]

So are the back feet climbing up then? Eep!

nope, they're both standing on their back legs! The angle's just not great - Cam's got one foot hidden by the correx and one by the water bottle, and I'm guessing Bann's back feet look like poops because they're dark. And it's a relatively thick layer of shavings in there too so their feet also hide that way.

Bann's just a deceptively long pig, especially when he thinks food's on the go. The longer he gets, the less chance of Camowen pilfering his food.

 

[emilybanister]

Hi guys - the new 160cm cage is here. The sides aren’t slanted either so it’s actually a 60cm width rather than the other one which was actually 45cm with slanted sides. I’m so happy with it they look so much better, it was making me sad to see them in the old one even as babies it was too small. Thanks for telling me to go for the bigger one. Attached a pic of the cage and Horace having a cuddle last night (don’t have one of Boris but he’s equally as adorable, but still quite shy - we’ve had him out too though and he’s eating from us whilst he is out now

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yep the plaza 160 is definitely a great cage - they will be happy living in there!

 

[emilybanister]

They’ve been doing a lot of chasing each other around like absolute maniacs in the new cage I have to say it’s been carnage this evening - however they’re often out eating together so I think it’s normal play rather than anything more sinister? And they seem to chase each other rather than one being chased all the time - maybe they’re just enjoying the new space they’re definitely making the most of it. Horace popcorns constantly, not seen boris do one yet though although he seems happy enough.

 

[Lorcan]

That's normal, they're in a "new" territory and they're doing a mild version of the dominance dance. It happens for every territory move even without new guinea pigs being involved.


My last pair would raise a riot - chasing, happy screeching, banging into things, zoomies and popcorning and they loved to do it at 3am when I was trying to sleep. Boars.

 

[emilybanister]

That's normal, they're in a "new" territory and they're doing a mild version of the dominance dance. It happens for every territory move even without new guinea pigs being involved.


My last pair would raise a riot - chasing, happy screeching, banging into things, zoomies and popcorning and they loved to do it at 3am when I was trying to sleep. Boars.

They do make me laugh they’re often chasing and rumbling at each other. I think overall they’re getting on though, they both come out to eat and will often eat from the same bowl (by choice) no issues. It’s so funny I had Guinea pigs growing up and never thought twice about these things - it’s different when you’re the adult isn’t it! I’ve had them less than a week so think they’re doing pretty well overall (fingers crossed it carries on)

 

[Lorcan]

They do make me laugh they’re often chasing and rumbling at each other. I think overall they’re getting on though, they both come out to eat and will often eat from the same bowl (by choice) no issues. It’s so funny I had Guinea pigs growing up and never thought twice about these things - it’s different when you’re the adult isn’t it! I’ve had them less than a week so think they’re doing pretty well overall (fingers crossed it carries on)

The riot raisers were frequently chasing each other, humping each other, falling off mid hump, squealing in that "we're happy and we know it" kinda way, and otherwise, sleeping next to each other. Eating together if it was hay or pellets, Blitzen stole Comet's veg on a daily basis and Comet kept getting bamboozled by this () but there was never any bullying involved, Comet was just a bit of an eejit.

Young boars especially are like this, I find. Confident, brash, complete idiots and loving every minute of it. I kinda miss it - til I remember I'm getting old and like to get a night's sleep.

 

[Piggies&buns]

They sound like they are doing well!
They will be reestablishing their relationship and hierarchy at the moment. This happens whenever they move to a new territory (this takes around two weeks).
What you need to be looking out for (as they get older) is that one is backing down into a submissive role and accepts his position as lower ranking.