Need guidance for situation with my two boars

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solstice

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Hi, I'm wondering if someone can help me with some advice here. I have two male guinea pigs. One is a year and 2 months old and the other is about 9 weeks. Both are from a rescue. I adopted the older guinea pig first then the younger one a few weeks later because I know they shouldn't be alone and I thought the bonding odds might be better with a younger boar. I'm still hoping they can bond but they are currently in separate cages. Both were unbonded at the rescue (adopted separately), and I thought they could be a good fit for each other. Worst case, I figured they could be kept in 4 x 2 c and c cages side by side so they would each have company.

After a lot of research, I thought it would be best to have their cages side by side for a few days so they could smell and see each other without physical contact before introduction in a neutral space, but my older guinea pig has now taken it upon himself (after two days of being calm about the new arrival) to try to escape to reach the younger one. He has been unsuccessful so far in breaking out of his c and c cage. Should I introduce them in a neutral space as soon as possible, or is my older boy's behavior a sign of aggression (like, get that other guy the heck away from me?)? I had thought it was correct to have them side by side for a little while. I had ordered a play pen set up I planned to use for the neutral introductions but it won't arrive until later today. I'm currently feeling quite at a loss as my older boy is very distressed. The younger boy has been going about life in his cage like normal and is not trying to break out like the other. He is clearly curious about my older boy but his behavior has been much calmer.

Sorry for the incredibly long explanation, I'm just hoping someone can give me some advice
 
Wiebke

Thread 'Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics'

1 Introduction
2 Pre-bonding
- Quarantine and sexing
- The need for a plan B
- The rule-breaker: Youngsters under 4 months (sub-teenage)
3 Setting up an introduction
- Getting to know each other
- ‘Buddy baths’ – why not
- Scent swapping - why not
- Setting up a neutral bonding area
- How to start the bonding
4 Acceptance phase: Do we like...
  • Like

Hi I have linked in the bonding guide. It goes through all the stage's and explains what to look for.
 
Julie M said:
Wiebke

Thread 'Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics'

1 Introduction
2 Pre-bonding
- Quarantine and sexing
- The need for a plan B
- The rule-breaker: Youngsters under 4 months (sub-teenage)
3 Setting up an introduction
- Getting to know each other
- ‘Buddy baths’ – why not
- Scent swapping - why not
- Setting up a neutral bonding area
- How to start the bonding
4 Acceptance phase: Do we like...
  • Like

Hi I have linked in the bonding guide. It goes through all the stage's and explains what to look for.
Click to expand...
Thank you!
 
Julie M said:
Hopefully you can get them together. I think your boy will be missing a friend. And that's maybe why he's trying to get to the new arrival.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much, yes I hope so. Older buddy came into the rescue found abandoned in a crate with another male who I believe either passed away or was adopted out (though I don't know why they would intentionally split them, couldn't find any more info on the past buddy). He was the only guinea pig left in the shelter when I adopted him, but they said the last male they had put him with was mounting him a lot so they had to separate them. I feel so terrible he is so upset at the moment but until the neutral cage arrives I am pretty stuck.
 
solstice said:
Thank you so much, yes I hope so. Older buddy came into the rescue found abandoned in a crate with another male who I believe either passed away or was adopted out (though I don't know why they would intentionally split them, couldn't find any more info on the past buddy). He was the only guinea pig left in the shelter when I adopted him, but they said the last male they had put him with was mounting him a lot so they had to separate them. I feel so terrible he is so upset at the moment but until the neutral cage arrives I am pretty stuck.
Click to expand...
You can wipe down/disinfect the cage you have at the moment. 2 boars would require a 2x5 c&c cage minimum. But the bigger the better.
 
Please do try to bond them on neutral territory.
His escaping isn’t a sign of aggression, and also as baby is under four months of age shouldn’t be alone (babies require constant social interaction, guidance and companionship from another piggy)
 
Julie M said:
You can wipe down/disinfect the cage you have at the moment. 2 boars would require a 2x5 c&c cage minimum. But the bigger the better.
Click to expand...
My fear has been that I wouldn't be able to get it clean enough to be truly neutral. Yes my plan was to put them in a 2x5 if all went well!
 
Piggies&buns said:
Please do try to bond them on neutral territory.
His escaping isn’t a sign of aggression, and also as baby is under four months of age shouldn’t be alone (babies require constant social interaction, guidance and companionship from another piggy)
Click to expand...
Thank you, I will! Yes I was very much hoping they could work out for this reason exactly. The baby came into the rescue with his mother and sister and had to be separated because of pregnancy risk.
 
solstice said:
Thank you, I will! Yes I was very much hoping they could work out for this reason exactly. The baby came into the rescue with his mother and sister and had to be separated because of pregnancy risk.
Click to expand...
Babies are much easier to bond than adults. Usually an adult accepts a baby no issues. As long as you have a good read through the bonding guide and follow the guidance you should get on ok.
 
Julie M said:
Babies are much easier to bond than adults. Usually an adult accepts a baby no issues. As long as you have a good read through the bonding guide and follow the guidance you should get on ok.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for all your help! I'm reading the guide through very closely now :)
 
solstice said:
Thank you so much for all your help! I'm reading the guide through very closely now :)
Click to expand...
The main thing when bonding is to not panic as there will possibly be chasing, rumbling, mounting, Squealing. These are all normal behaviours and nothing to worry about.
 
Julie M said:
The main thing when bonding is to not panic as there will possibly be chasing, rumbling, mounting, Squealing. These are all normal behaviours and nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...
I'll work hard to stay calm. I know as much as I'm telling myself that now though that it'll be a completely different story once it's actually happening! I'm looking very closely at the behaviors listed in the guide to try to familiarize myself with them more. How many hours would you recommend they stay in the bonding pen together before moving to their permanent cage? Assuming (praying) things were to go well.
 
solstice said:
I'll work hard to stay calm. I know as much as I'm telling myself that now though that it'll be a completely different story once it's actually happening! I'm looking very closely at the behaviors listed in the guide to try to familiarize myself with them more. How many hours would you recommend they stay in the bonding pen together before moving to their permanent cage? Assuming (praying) things were to go well.
Click to expand...
Usually you're advised to keep them in the bonding pen until they've had their first nap together and then woken up afterwards and are still ok. This can take a few hours. It may be different with a baby.
 
Good luck with the bonding, please feel free to post as many updates as you want (preferably with pictures)
We advise you have chocolate and wine on standby......
 
Julie M said:
The main thing when bonding is to not panic as there will possibly be chasing, rumbling, mounting, Squealing. These are all normal behaviours and nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...
Julie M said:
Definitely agree. Lots of chocolate. 😂
Click to expand...
Just paused mid bond (know it's bad but I was getting concerned for the baby and needed to do more research. My older piggy was mounting the baby aggressively. Like 20+ times this happened. He is also licking his butt which seemed like he liked him. Do you think it's safe to proceed? They've been separated about 2 mins as I got concerned by the level of aggression in the mounting
 
I put them back in and baby got fed up with aggressive humping. I think they lunged at each other? No blood drawn but pretty sure the older one pulled hair from the baby during mounting. Separated out of fear. Baby seemed very very scared, I am new to bonding though and maybe am misreading the situation. Rumble strutting by the older boy happened briefly, and teeth chattering, but nothing was terrible except the humping which kept happening with a force and consistency that seemed extreme
 
solstice said:
I put them back in and baby got fed up with aggressive humping. I think they lunged at each other? No blood drawn but pretty sure the older one pulled hair from the baby during mounting. Separated out of fear. Baby seemed very very scared, I am new to bonding though and maybe am misreading the situation. Rumble strutting by the older boy happened briefly, and teeth chattering, but nothing was terrible except the humping which kept happening with a force and consistency that seemed extreme
Click to expand...
Should I give them a few days to cool down and attempt again?
 
I expected some mounting but the mounting exhibited by my older boy was very aggressive and didn't seem right. Should I have let it go on? He was humping both the baby's back and his face. The baby couldn't move a step without the older one getting back on top of him even if he had literally just gotten off of him.
 
They need to stay in the bonding pen for several hours or even overnight. We no longer advise until the first nap as often it isn’t long enough. They need to get through a few stages of bonding and sometimes by the first nap they aren’t far enough in. And moving them too soon can cause a
step back. We advise leaving them the longer the better - as I say, even as long as overnight before moving them to the cage if necessary.

There is going to be a lot of mounting, chasing and rumbling. Lunging is defensive not aggressive behaviour. Humping their head happens.
Things can look quite harsh to us so you have to be very careful not to put a human spin on it.
You do have to see it through the boars though an unless it is clearly failing with fights. Separating stops everything and means they have it start from the beginning every time. Interrupt bonding too much and it can be detrimental.

What I would advise now is you do more research. Then try again tomorrow or the next day - when you feel comfortable. You have to then see it through in the next session - whether it’s success or failure - don’t separate unless they fight and it fails.
 
Piggies&buns said:
They need to stay in the bonding pen for several hours or even overnight. We no longer advise until the first nap as often it isn’t long enough. They need to get through a few stages of bonding and sometimes by the first nap they aren’t far enough in. And moving them too soon can cause a
step back. We advise leaving them the longer the better - as I say, even as long as overnight before moving them to the cage if necessary.

There is going to be a lot of mounting, chasing and rumbling. Lunging is defensive not aggressive behaviour. Humping their head happens.
Things can look quite harsh to us so you have to be very careful not to put a human spin on it.
You do have to see it through the boars though an unless it is clearly failing with fights. Separating stops everything and means they have it start from the beginning every time. Interrupt bonding too much and it can be detrimental.

What I would advise now is you do more research. Then try again tomorrow or the next day - when you feel comfortable. You have to then see it through in the next session - whether it’s success or failure - don’t separate unless they fight and it fails.
Click to expand...
Thank you!
 
I'm no expert, but in addition to the info on this forum, I did find watching saskia from LA guinea pig rescue and Scotty's Animals channels on youtube to be helpful. They have a fair number of guinea pig bonding videos. Saskia especially tends to do a running commentary on their behaviors and her interpretation of them. It certainly helped me to feel more comfortable and confident in what I was seeing when I bonded my piggies. Saskia runs the LA guinea pig rescue and Scotty helps out there. They have hundreds of piggies and have done tons of bondings. They won't adopt out single piggies. If you have a single piggy, they make you bring the piggy so they can find a suitable mate for you to leave with.
 
Mikatelyn said:
I'm no expert, but in addition to the info on this forum, I did find watching saskia from LA guinea pig rescue and Scotty's Animals channels on youtube to be helpful. They have a fair number of guinea pig bonding videos. Saskia especially tends to do a running commentary on their behaviors and her interpretation of them. It certainly helped me to feel more comfortable and confident in what I was seeing when I bonded my piggies. Saskia runs the LA guinea pig rescue and Scotty helps out there. They have hundreds of piggies and have done tons of bondings. They won't adopt out single piggies. If you have a single piggy, they make you bring the piggy so they can find a suitable mate for you to leave with.
Click to expand...
I watched some of Scotty’s videos beforehand but I’m definitely going to watch more today, and I will check out Saskia’s channel. Thanks for the tips!
 
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