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Natural Remedy?

Bell@

New Born Pup
Joined
Jul 9, 2022
Messages
7
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35
Location
Australia
Hi all :) I’m posting here in the hope someone may have a suggestion for a natural remedy. Lychee is a 2 year-old female Guinea pig. She’s been sick for less than a year, constant infections and bladder stones etc - we’ve had many courses of antibiotics and she keeps getting sick. We’ve tried supplements, we’ve brought her inside off the grass, different beddings, parasite treated regularly, her diet is really healthy and she drinks a lot and eats well but she’s still sick, blood all over the cage floor. The vet has x-rated her and done an ultrasound on her tummy, all he found was sludge but no big stones. Her healthy cage mate gets sick occasionally too, catches the infection off the sick one. I guess I was just wondering if there’s anything more I can try for the sick one? She’s been pulling her fur out and because she’s been sick there’s been a lot of tension and growling in the cage but if I seperate them (they’re sisters) they squeak themselves hoarse until I reunite them. The vet has broached putting her down, but I really really don’t want to do that unless it’s the only option 💔 Thank you in advance to any suggestions - Bella
 
You say constant infections, do you mean with urine infections or another sort of infection?
What symptoms are you seeing?

Has her urine been tested and bacteria actually found?
Have different antibiotics has been tried?
There is an illness called sterile interstitial cystitis. It isn’t bacterial but presents with pain and blood in the urine. It will not be cured by antibiotics as it isn’t bacterial so can only be managed with diet (by potentially cutting out trigger foods), glucosamine to help line the bladder and pain killers.
It can only be diagnosed by process of elimination. If a piggy is presenting with bladder infections, but antibiotics don’t cure it, then it could be sterile cystitis. The other piggy won’t be able to catch it, as it’s not bacterial.

Regarding the stones and sludge - there is a genetic element to stone formation but the only thing we can control is the diet.
You say her diet is healthy - what is her diet?
Most calcium comes into the diet via pellets and drinking water. Keep pellets strictly to one tablespoon per pig per day and ensure they are grain free, low calcium pellets. Ensure drinking water is filtered.
Next, ensure high calcium veg such as kale, spinach, parsley are kept to very small amounts and not fed more than once per week.

Was she checked for ovarian cysts?

Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
 
Thank you so much for your reply!

The vet seemed to think they were infections but given her recurring illness I’m not sure, it does seem like sterile interstitial cystitis - it presents as blood in the urine, the pain and fur pulling and is made worse by calcium-rich foods - we’ve taken her off the grass (because of clover), she eats celery once a week and we generally stay away from kale etc while she’s sick otherwise her faeces have a white calcium-like coating. She eats Oaten hay and Timothy grass (no lucern) and her grain has no calcium, special grain. She eats mainly capsicum, a small amount of lettuce each day, carrots, a little fruit of different kinds every second day, then alternating days veg like bean sprouts etc.

I’ve just realised the fresh lot of blood (started yesterday) is from her sister, vet suggested they catch infection off each other as they often got sick when it rained (they used to be outside, I’m in Australia) but as they’re from the same litter it might be a genetic thing. The “healthy” sister doesn’t seem to get as bad, she stays fat and fur glossy and no fur pulling or crying. I believe the vet did check for cysts - she’s had a lot of vet appointments and tests 💔

The water filtration is a good idea, I didn’t think of the water 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

With the metacam, is it possible to buy online? Is it a permanent everyday dosing or alternating day or when she presents symptoms sort of thing? And the glucosamine is a great idea, I’ve tried probiotics but I guess they didn’t do much.

Thank you again!
 
Carrots and fruit need to be very limited or avoided. Root veg such as carrots can cause them issues particularly for bladder piggies, but also carrots and fruit are far too high in sugar and by what you have said you are giving them far too much. Fruit and carrot, if it is going to be given, should be no more than once per week - if you give carrot once in a week, then dont give any fruit at all that week.

Glucosamine works on the bladder (and joints). A probiotic is for digestion. Its not the same thing.

Metacam needs a vet prescription.
 
I have bottles of metacam from the vet so I guess I need to ask him when I need more - is there a safe non-prescription painkiller that would be effective for this or should I only get it from the vet? All my previous piggies have been really healthy so new to the medicine thing.

And I feel so stupid, I didn’t know carrots were a bad food - I thought, as they had no calcium, they were the only safe food 🤦‍♀️ They don’t have fruit every day and when they do it’s like a cherry each, or a kiwi fruit peel, or a slice of apple, small amounts but I’ll definitely keep it to once a week. I’m honestly not sure what to feed them, it seems most foods have problems even if they’re only once a week - I’ll have to set up a feeding schedule or something! What veg is best? Anything that can be given everyday?

And yeah the probiotic thing was more a side thing to replace what the antibiotics killed after her “infections”. I’ll go buy Glucosamine right away!

Thank you for answering my silly questions and being so patient. The Internet articles I’ve been reading were not accurate 😬 and the vet didn’t mention a lot of this, I’ve probably been asking the wrong questions!
 
Speak to your vet before giving any pain killer. Any medication needs to be based on her weight and clinical symptoms. Please do speak to your vet before giving anything - the glucosamine is a food supplement but you also need to make sure you are giving the right thing

The green diet link I added in above explains feeding in more detail, including a section for bladder piggies
Carrots are very sugary and also very high in vitamin A which isn’t great in large quantities.
Safe daily veggies are coriander, lettuce, cucumber, bell pepper. Other things can be given in rotation and moderation.

Regarding her pellets , you say ‘no calcium, special grain’. There is no such thing as no calcium pellets. All will contain some to differing amounts. What are the ingredients of it?

Also, be aware, that a diet too low in calcium can cause it’s own problems. Calcium absorption, oxalates, and genetic predisposition are all very tricky so it’s about finding what works for your piggy.
 
Don't sweat it - we're all learning all the time and some vets have just a bit more piggy experience than others. There's a lot of great stuff on the internet and a lot of crazy misleading dross but we can't tell one from the other! Piggy-wise this is the forum for me - if it's not on here already you can start a thread about it and the volunteers have decades of piggy experience between them. We still can't tell what your girls are suffering from but we can suggest possibilities and things to consider. Apols for this long post btw!

First thing is that I've had a few pigs with urinary tract infection (UTI) over the years - genuine infections that have been confirmed and treated by antibiotics. And I've never had piggies pass this type of infection onto a cage mate. It's turned up more in my girls and we think that might be because of how they scent mark by wiping their bits on the ground. That's piggy life. Some turned out to have a stone too and this has likely made it easier for the infection to hold on and cause symptoms: typically wet round the back from dripping pee, blood tint in urine, hunching and squeaking in pain while peeing. The only time I ever saw a proper puddle of blood was a little sow who seemed to have suddenly passed a stone out of nowhere (she ended up fine btw). Still tweaking our diet and doing better these days: the reduction in pellets and changing our water to low Ca seems to have made a good difference so far, touch wood!

Anyway, some of these UTIs have been more difficult to shift with the antibiotics but the pattern of reduction in symptoms has always been the same for us. We start the antibiotics and can see a difference within a day or two (48 hours). Sometimes a 5 (or 7) day course has cleared an infection no problem - we always complete the course - but we always see the difference in the first few days. This is a typical pattern and this is why people are very tempted not to complete courses of antibiotics because they think, "Oh it's worked already"! But we must.
On only one occasion there was no improvement after 72 hours (3 days) and I called the vet back. She said the bacteria must be resistant to that antibiotic and prescribed a different one straight away which fortunately worked - a day and a half later my girl was drying up at the back and a lot more comfortable.
One time we completed the course but a few days afterwards the symptoms came back because, presumably, not quite all the bacteria had been wiped out. The vet just prescribed the same thing again, this time for nearly 3 weeks, but we still saw the initial improvement within 48 hours. So if antibiotics are genuinely effectively treating bacteria the easing of piggy's symptoms tends to follow the same pattern. Is this the pattern you have seen? Or is it that you get, say, a 10 day course and see some improvement after several days because in this case I'd be thinking more about SIC and that the antibiotic is a coincidence :hmm:

There are a few piggies on here with sterile interstitial cystitis (SIC) which is apparently also a thing in cats with stress - we met a young tom at the vet who was getting over a few weeks of difficulty with SIC after moving house. Stress is a trigger but tbh all piggies, as prey animals, must feel stress quite a lot anyway and we don't know why some get these symptoms while most others don't. You can't test for it and the symptoms are the same (or very similar) to UTI but don't respond to those treatments. It is characterised by 'flare-ups' but piggy can get through these and if you can find the right balance they can live happy lives. I mean, some people apparently get it too and vets don't offer to put us down, or even our cats! Cat treatments include glucosamine and something called Feliway cystease has been used by piggy people too. Search the forum for it and you'll find people discussing how much they give and how... there's a nice pic somewhere of some powder made into a little sandwich with cucumber! Glucosamine does not need a prescription as it counts as a food supplement... but it's just knowing how and when to give it. People use it for other things too - bladder support after stone surgery or long term infection - not just SIC. My old boy is on it for arthritis and doing great. I'm a total convert as George is much more mobile now. But it doesn't work like magic - it needs a few weeks to build up. In George's case he seemed to be laying around less after 2 weeks (I just thought he was a bit lazy!) but by 4 weeks he was following his females out into the kitchen which he'd not done for months. George also used to have hair in his teeth as he nibbled on his stiff joints like we rub our sore joints. That's gone now. If your girl is self-barbering she's not happy... but you know that already x

We use oxbow joint support lozenges which contain 90mg glucosamine. They also do a urinary support one but this only has 45mg per lozenge. Some pigs don't like them - mine love them. My girl with occasional gritty pee has half a George-lozenge to crunch each day. It's likely no coincidence that she takes more than her share of the pellets - she's my fattest pig despite being bottom pig. Feliway cystease comes in capsules and has to be put on the food - it seems to be well tolerated in pigs. I've seen something called 4Joints liquid (for dogs) which has been recommended too although I can't remember if that was for arthritis or bladders or both!

We can't buy Metacam/Loxicom (active ingredient meloxicam) without a prescription as it is a painkiller and anti-inflammatory but it is commonly used for piggies and George is on it for the rest of his life. They like the taste - it's not a battle to get them to take it. George runs over for his syringe and chunky Louise is always hot on his heels to try and get a lick of the empty syringe! There are 2 strengths: 0.5mg/ml for cats (now also licensed for pigs) and 1.5ml/ml for dogs (unlicensed). George -like many piggies with an experienced vet - gets dog strength although these days I have to sign a form to say I take responsibility for that. Anyone will prescribe cat strength and for some pigs that is OK but it's not really a weight for weight comparison with this stuff. George gets about 0.25ml twice a day. I say about because it comes with a special syringe which has it's own units. However, it's the same as you would give an 8 kilo dog - obvs George isn't that hefty! But pigs tolerate this stuff well and have a really fast metabolism so they burn through it. My vet worked out George's dose based on mgs per kg of pig so weight is involved. She said either 8 units once a day or 4 twice. I just have to be careful not to exceed the dose per 24 hours. He has no side effects. In the short term I've had piggies on (much) higher doses with no problem but for long term arthritis management he's doing well. I hope your vet can work out a suitable regime for your sisters.

Good luck Bella and girls x
 
Speak to your vet before giving any pain killer. Any medication needs to be based on her weight and clinical symptoms. Please do speak to your vet before giving anything - the glucosamine is a food supplement but you also need to make sure you are giving the right thing

The green diet link I added in above explains feeding in more detail, including a section for bladder piggies
Carrots are very sugary and also very high in vitamin A which isn’t great in large quantities.
Safe daily veggies are coriander, lettuce, cucumber, bell pepper. Other things can be given in rotation and moderation.

Regarding her pellets , you say ‘no calcium, special grain’. There is no such thing as no calcium pellets. All will contain some to differing amounts. What are the ingredients of it?

Also, be aware, that a diet too low in calcium can cause it’s own problems. Calcium absorption, oxalates, and genetic predisposition are all very tricky so it’s about finding what works for your piggy.
Thank you :) I’ve made adjustments to their diet, they love the cucumber and capsicum 😊 You’ve given me a lot to talk to my vet about, I’m so thankful to have some possible solutions :)
 
Th
Don't sweat it - we're all learning all the time and some vets have just a bit more piggy experience than others. There's a lot of great stuff on the internet and a lot of crazy misleading dross but we can't tell one from the other! Piggy-wise this is the forum for me - if it's not on here already you can start a thread about it and the volunteers have decades of piggy experience between them. We still can't tell what your girls are suffering from but we can suggest possibilities and things to consider. Apols for this long post btw!

First thing is that I've had a few pigs with urinary tract infection (UTI) over the years - genuine infections that have been confirmed and treated by antibiotics. And I've never had piggies pass this type of infection onto a cage mate. It's turned up more in my girls and we think that might be because of how they scent mark by wiping their bits on the ground. That's piggy life. Some turned out to have a stone too and this has likely made it easier for the infection to hold on and cause symptoms: typically wet round the back from dripping pee, blood tint in urine, hunching and squeaking in pain while peeing. The only time I ever saw a proper puddle of blood was a little sow who seemed to have suddenly passed a stone out of nowhere (she ended up fine btw). Still tweaking our diet and doing better these days: the reduction in pellets and changing our water to low Ca seems to have made a good difference so far, touch wood!

Anyway, some of these UTIs have been more difficult to shift with the antibiotics but the pattern of reduction in symptoms has always been the same for us. We start the antibiotics and can see a difference within a day or two (48 hours). Sometimes a 5 (or 7) day course has cleared an infection no problem - we always complete the course - but we always see the difference in the first few days. This is a typical pattern and this is why people are very tempted not to complete courses of antibiotics because they think, "Oh it's worked already"! But we must.
On only one occasion there was no improvement after 72 hours (3 days) and I called the vet back. She said the bacteria must be resistant to that antibiotic and prescribed a different one straight away which fortunately worked - a day and a half later my girl was drying up at the back and a lot more comfortable.
One time we completed the course but a few days afterwards the symptoms came back because, presumably, not quite all the bacteria had been wiped out. The vet just prescribed the same thing again, this time for nearly 3 weeks, but we still saw the initial improvement within 48 hours. So if antibiotics are genuinely effectively treating bacteria the easing of piggy's symptoms tends to follow the same pattern. Is this the pattern you have seen? Or is it that you get, say, a 10 day course and see some improvement after several days because in this case I'd be thinking more about SIC and that the antibiotic is a coincidence :hmm:

There are a few piggies on here with sterile interstitial cystitis (SIC) which is apparently also a thing in cats with stress - we met a young tom at the vet who was getting over a few weeks of difficulty with SIC after moving house. Stress is a trigger but tbh all piggies, as prey animals, must feel stress quite a lot anyway and we don't know why some get these symptoms while most others don't. You can't test for it and the symptoms are the same (or very similar) to UTI but don't respond to those treatments. It is characterised by 'flare-ups' but piggy can get through these and if you can find the right balance they can live happy lives. I mean, some people apparently get it too and vets don't offer to put us down, or even our cats! Cat treatments include glucosamine and something called Feliway cystease has been used by piggy people too. Search the forum for it and you'll find people discussing how much they give and how... there's a nice pic somewhere of some powder made into a little sandwich with cucumber! Glucosamine does not need a prescription as it counts as a food supplement... but it's just knowing how and when to give it. People use it for other things too - bladder support after stone surgery or long term infection - not just SIC. My old boy is on it for arthritis and doing great. I'm a total convert as George is much more mobile now. But it doesn't work like magic - it needs a few weeks to build up. In George's case he seemed to be laying around less after 2 weeks (I just thought he was a bit lazy!) but by 4 weeks he was following his females out into the kitchen which he'd not done for months. George also used to have hair in his teeth as he nibbled on his stiff joints like we rub our sore joints. That's gone now. If your girl is self-barbering she's not happy... but you know that already x

We use oxbow joint support lozenges which contain 90mg glucosamine. They also do a urinary support one but this only has 45mg per lozenge. Some pigs don't like them - mine love them. My girl with occasional gritty pee has half a George-lozenge to crunch each day. It's likely no coincidence that she takes more than her share of the pellets - she's my fattest pig despite being bottom pig. Feliway cystease comes in capsules and has to be put on the food - it seems to be well tolerated in pigs. I've seen something called 4Joints liquid (for dogs) which has been recommended too although I can't remember if that was for arthritis or bladders or both!

We can't buy Metacam/Loxicom (active ingredient meloxicam) without a prescription as it is a painkiller and anti-inflammatory but it is commonly used for piggies and George is on it for the rest of his life. They like the taste - it's not a battle to get them to take it. George runs over for his syringe and chunky Louise is always hot on his heels to try and get a lick of the empty syringe! There are 2 strengths: 0.5mg/ml for cats (now also licensed for pigs) and 1.5ml/ml for dogs (unlicensed). George -like many piggies with an experienced vet - gets dog strength although these days I have to sign a form to say I take responsibility for that. Anyone will prescribe cat strength and for some pigs that is OK but it's not really a weight for weight comparison with this stuff. George gets about 0.25ml twice a day. I say about because it comes with a special syringe which has it's own units. However, it's the same as you would give an 8 kilo dog - obvs George isn't that hefty! But pigs tolerate this stuff well and have a really fast metabolism so they burn through it. My vet worked out George's dose based on mgs per kg of pig so weight is involved. She said either 8 units once a day or 4 twice. I just have to be careful not to exceed the dose per 24 hours. He has no side effects. In the short term I've had piggies on (much) higher doses with no problem but for long term arthritis management he's doing well. I hope your vet can work out a suitable regime for your sisters.

Good luck Bella and girls
Wow, that’s wonderful you found a way to help George! Thank you so much for your reply, you’ve given me a lot of hope! Yeah, the girls did have infections a couple times, the wet fur and hunching up etc but currently they don’t seem to have an infection which is good 😅 I’ll definitely talk to the vet about the painkillers!

They’re utter sweeties, definitely more delicate than my other piggies, some of whom lived to 7.5 years! These two have had more vet visits this year than all the others put together 🤦‍♀️ They’re worth it though! One of the vets broached that the constant sickness might mean putting them down would be a kindness, but they’re so happy alive and together 🥺 I’m so grateful to both of you, I really didn’t know what to do ❤️ Thank you 🙏
 
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