Multiple cases of extreme weight loss and death

[Megan100]

Hi, I hope someone can give me some advice

I own a petting farm and we have numerous guinea pigs, have done for years.
Earlier this year I lost half a dozen of my guinea pigs within a few weeks of each other, they were all purchased from the same breeder at the same time about 3 years ago when they were nearing a year old and so I brushed it off as a bit odd but understandable as they were roughly the same age and had the same background, however I've since been losing more guinea pigs throughout the season. The guinea pigs are split between several different pens with between 5 and 9 guinea pigs in each, the deaths have been from all of the pens so i've ruled out the cause being an isolated germ (plus the pens have been thoroughly scrubbed and disinfected and are cleaned out daily). The trend seems to be that the guinea pig looks fine one day then to have drastically lost weight the next and be very slow when being mucked out instead of scurrying out of the way like the others, and they're dead hours later. Initially it was the oldest guinea pigs that this was happening to but then it started getting worrying when guinea pigs that were only a year old were dropping dead.
I've tried researching causes and not come up with a lot but I've started giving them vitamin C supplements dissolved in their water (they already get plenty of veg) every other day.
One of my guinea pigs, Luna recently gave birth to her first litter and became extremely skinny a couple of weeks after returning to the pen with the other guinea pigs (during the gestation and after giving birth she was in an isolated pen with another guinea pig that was also meant to be pregnant, this one was fine when they were reintroduced to their normal pen). I took Luna into the house in a cage to keep her warm and keep an eye on her and fed her (probably overfed in my panic) plenty of pepper and other veg to get her better and although she hasn't put any weight on or started looking any healthier in the weeks since, she's still alive and seems well enough in her behaviour, she also had osteocare for a few days but remains extremely small despite being little over a year old.
I've tried looking up causes of drastic weight loss and death but can't find anything that would explain so many cases over a timespan of a few months, if anyone has any suggestions or insight I'd be extremely grateful.

Thanks in advance, Megan

 

[Piggies&buns]

The most important question at this point is has a vet seen them?

 

[Wiebke]

Hi, I hope someone can give me some advice

I own a petting farm and we have numerous guinea pigs, have done for years.
Earlier this year I lost half a dozen of my guinea pigs within a few weeks of each other, they were all purchased from the same breeder at the same time about 3 years ago when they were nearing a year old and so I brushed it off as a bit odd but understandable as they were roughly the same age and had the same background, however I've since been losing more guinea pigs throughout the season. The guinea pigs are split between several different pens with between 5 and 9 guinea pigs in each, the deaths have been from all of the pens so i've ruled out the cause being an isolated germ (plus the pens have been thoroughly scrubbed and disinfected and are cleaned out daily). The trend seems to be that the guinea pig looks fine one day then to have drastically lost weight the next and be very slow when being mucked out instead of scurrying out of the way like the others, and they're dead hours later. Initially it was the oldest guinea pigs that this was happening to but then it started getting worrying when guinea pigs that were only a year old were dropping dead.
I've tried researching causes and not come up with a lot but I've started giving them vitamin C supplements dissolved in their water (they already get plenty of veg) every other day.
One of my guinea pigs, Luna recently gave birth to her first litter and became extremely skinny a couple of weeks after returning to the pen with the other guinea pigs (during the gestation and after giving birth she was in an isolated pen with another guinea pig that was also meant to be pregnant, this one was fine when they were reintroduced to their normal pen). I took Luna into the house in a cage to keep her warm and keep an eye on her and fed her (probably overfed in my panic) plenty of pepper and other veg to get her better and although she hasn't put any weight on or started looking any healthier in the weeks since, she's still alive and seems well enough in her behaviour, she also had osteocare for a few days but remains extremely small despite being little over a year old.
I've tried looking up causes of drastic weight loss and death but can't find anything that would explain so many cases over a timespan of a few months, if anyone has any suggestions or insight I'd be extremely grateful.

Thanks in advance, Megan

Hi!

I am very sorry for your losses.

What has your vet said? Have they proposed a post mortem?

Please ask your vet to look into germs that can spread between species and also be transmitted by humans.
Several illnesses can be carried by other species like rabbits, cats and dogs without them necessarily showing symptoms that are fatal for guinea pigs. The problem may not necessarily have originated in your place but could also have been carried in by visitor.

You may also want to look at environmental vectors (bedding, food, wind), especially if guinea pigs from different groups are affected. Other rodents (rats, mice)may also provide a vector; they can transmit some real nasties, as can birds in any open enclosure via droppings.

It is obviously not one of the highly aggressive bugs that go through a group like wildfire but it looks like something that is present everywhere and that is affecting mainly the weaker piggies. Any pregnant or new mum is of course at high risk because of her immune system being on overload. Any young, old, frail or ill piggies (with open or underlying issues) will also be at a much higher risk of whatever is making the round to overwhelm their immune system.

If your piggies are all from the same place, there can of course also be a genetic disposition present.

Unfortunately your symptoms are too vague to even make an educated guess. 'Mystery weight loss' is such a wide field.
If you want to get to the bottom of it, then only a post mortem and any necessary lab tests are the way forward.
I am very sorry, but scenarios like yours are the nightmare any owner of larger groups or mulit-species households is dreading. They are unfortunately never cheap. I assume that you have made any provisions for a situation like this as you are in the high risk category and running a business?

A petting zoo is unfortunately providing perfect conditions for transmission (either direct or via human handling without the necessary hygiene measure in between), in combination with prey animals like guinea pigs being most often highly stressed when handled by strangers.
The seeming calmness and willingness to being held is in fact very often the 'playing unresponsive so the predator loses interest' instinct in play. Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips

Do your piggies have plenty of shelter, unlimited hay (should make over 80% of the daily food intake) and protection from the weather/cold/dampness and gales as well as extremes of heat?

Personally, I would strongly recommend to remove your guinea pigs from being handled until you know what is going on and how to address it.

PS: Please accept that we are a strictly non-breeding rescue friendly forum. Terms of Service And Forum Rules

 

[Lady Kelly]

Any guinea pigs that start to go downhill need to see a vet promptly especially when accompanied with weight loss and other indicating behaviours (as per the slowing down/lethargy). Please also ensure that your females are separated from any males to prevent pregnancies as this will take a further toll on a piggy who is ill and also because intentional breeding is prohibited from discussion on this forum

 

[Megan100]

The most important question at this point is has a vet seen them?

Yes of course, most of the cases were only noticed once they were dead but we have taken a couple to the vet as they've appeared ill with no definitive answer beyond "make sure you wash their greens (which we do) and bring in the next case if there's another one soon after" unfortunately in both those cases there was a large gap before another case occurred.

 

[Megan100]

Any guinea pigs that start to go downhill need to see a vet promptly especially when accompanied with weight loss and other indicating behaviours (as per the slowing down/lethargy). Please also ensure that your females are separated from any males to prevent pregnancies as this will take a further toll on a piggy who is ill and also because intentional breeding is prohibited from discussion on this forum

Of course, sorry I should have mentioned this only applies to female guinea pigs, the males are kept in another building altogether

 

[Wiebke]

I know how much more work it is for you, but could you switch to weighing once weekly and note down the weights in order to catch any problem ideally at the start? How piggy savvy is your vet?

 

[Megan100]

Hi!

I am very sorry for your losses.

What has your vet said? Have they proposed a post mortem?

Please ask your vet to look into germs that can spread between species and also be transmitted by humans.
Several illnesses can be carried by other species like rabbits, cats and dogs without them necessarily showing symptoms that are fatal for guinea pigs. The problem may not necessarily have originated in your place but could also have been carried in by visitor.

You may also want to look at environmental vectors (bedding, food, wind), especially if guinea pigs from different groups are affected. Other rodents (rats, mice)may also provide a vector; they can transmit some real nasties, as can birds in any open enclosure via droppings.

It is obviously not one of the highly aggressive bugs that go through a group like wildfire but it looks like something that is present everywhere and that is affecting mainly the weaker piggies. Any pregnant or new mum is of course at high risk because of her immune system being on overload. Any young, old, frail or ill piggies (with open or underlying issues) will also be at a much higher risk of whatever is making the round to overwhelm their immune system.

If your piggies are all from the same place, there can of course also be a genetic disposition present.

Unfortunately your symptoms are too vague to even make an educated guess. 'Mystery weight loss' is such a wide field.
If you want to get to the bottom of it, then only a post mortem and any necessary lab tests are the way forward.
I am very sorry, but scenarios like yours are the nightmare any owner of larger groups or mulit-species households is dreading. They are unfortunately never cheap. I assume that you have made any provisions for a situation like this as you are in the high risk category and running a business?

A petting zoo is unfortunately providing perfect conditions for transmission (either direct or via human handling without the necessary hygiene measure in between), in combination with prey animals like guinea pigs being most often highly stressed when handled by strangers.
The seeming calmness and willingness to being held is in fact very often the 'playing unresponsive so the predator loses interest' instinct in play. Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips

Do your piggies have plenty of shelter, unlimited hay (should make over 80% of the daily food intake) and protection from the weather/cold/dampness and gales as well as extremes of heat?

Personally, I would strongly recommend to remove your guinea pigs from being handled until you know what is going on and how to address it.

PS: Please accept that we are a strictly non-breeding rescue friendly forum. Terms of Service And Forum Rules

Hi, thanks for responding,
A few of the guinea pigs have been seen by vets as and when they started showing ill health though they weren't able to give me much advice beyond making sure greens are washed (which they already are) and to keep an eye out for future cases.

I'm very careful about contamination from other species, their pens are raised 2 feet from the floor by brick and the metal mesh is another 2 feet plus they are netted over on a night so hopefully nothing can get in and I've never seen any evidence of rodents or bird droppings in the enclosure.
Most of the guinea pigs are completely unrelated and of various breeds, so I don't think there's a genetic disposition which was my initial thought when all the guineas from the same place died.
As I say we take all possible precautions that we can and no guinea pig is handled if there is even a slight inkling that its less than perfectly healthy, they have plenty of hay and are numerous houses that they are free to go in, plus they are completely sheltered from all weather anyway.

I appreciate your suggestions and will review if there's anything more I can do in line with them, thanks very much.

 

[Megan100]

I know how much more work it is for you, but could you switch to weighing once weekly and note down the weights in order to catch any problem ideally at the start? How piggy savvy is your vet?

Hi
I've been weighing Luna (the one that lost a lot of weight a few weeks ago but is otherwise fine) on an almost daily basis and finding it fluctuates but isn't consistently increasing or decreasing and to be honest I hadn't considered doing it with all of them as the weight loss is so drastic in its appearance but I will gladly take that suggestion and start a weekly record of them all.
We use a small animals and pets vet, I've never had any cause for complaints with their handling of any of my animals before
Thank you

 

[VickiA]

I have to ask this - If the males and females are kept in separate buildings how did you come to have pregnant sows?

Petting farms are very stressful environments for piggies they are susceptible to illnesses when stressed as their immune system is affected. When illness spreads like this throughout a herd it can be a good idea to get a post mortem done to see if there is a separate underlying cause for each piggy or whether there is a common unifying factor.

Has a full deep clean of their accommodation been carried out? Wooden hutches, pens and toys can harbour many germs so could benefit from deep clean and perhaps even replacement.

Have any of the piggies ever been In contact with a rabbit? Or have children handled rabbits and then piggies? There are some diseases that pass from one species to the other hence the recommendation not to house piggies and bunnies together. Or do visitors handle a variety of animals before petting the piggies?

When new piggies have come in has strict quarantine been maintained for 2 weeks in case one is hiding illness? Is it possible one of the newer piggies is a carrier for an illness or disease? A rescue we are aware of took in some rescue piggies and had a rare case of chlamydial conjunctivitis brought in. It spread to many of the piggies in the rescue and many died. The survivors are now carriers and cannot go to homes with other piggies or cats. I mention this because it is very rare and only found after PMs and testing.

 

[Swissgreys]

Hi
I've been weighing Luna (the one that lost a lot of weight a few weeks ago but is otherwise fine) on an almost daily basis and finding it fluctuates but isn't consistently increasing or decreasing and to be honest I hadn't considered doing it with all of them as the weight loss is so drastic in its appearance but I will gladly take that suggestion and start a weekly record of them all.
We use a small animals and pets vet, I've never had any cause for complaints with their handling of any of my animals before
Thank you

I am sorry you and your piggies are going through this.
It is great that you have seen a vet, but to be honest I think you might need to consider finding a vet with more cavy expereince.

I had a similar situation with one of my own piggies last year - she was fine in the morning, a bit 'flat' by lunchtime, and barley moving just a few hours later.
We rushed her to the vets and they immediately gave her painkiller, took a urine sample, did 2 x-rays, and then an ultrasound. She was in surgery for a urinary blockage less than 40 minutes after arriving at the vet.
I can not imagine that any experienced cavy vet would listen to the history you have given them and simply tell you to wash your greens, when you clearly stated that you already do this anyway.

What tests were done on the guinea pigs that saw the vet?
How did they rule out the common and fast killers like urinary and airway infections?
If no obvious cause was found did they suggest a round of antibiotics, probiotics, gut stimulants, deep cleaning of the environment, or further testing?
I find it odd that they did so little to deal with such a major problem, and clealry have not helped to resolve the issue at all.