Moving poorly guinea pig

[Piggies2023]

Nancy is booked in for an x-ray on Thursday. The vet thinks she has bladder stones. She also has had mites. Her sister, Pumpkin had been unwell too so that's added on stress. I find where I live extremely stressful. It's a council flat, with pretty much no soundproofing. A neighbour has been doing DIY which is loud. I am also due a new neighbor anytime downstairs which could cause a lot of noise, as it needs carpet, decorated etc. I suspect my two have been poorly in part due to noise stress.

I am also extremely stressed, I don't cope with banging either. I'm wondering about going to a family members for a while while she's unwell. But that will involve moving the piggies, initial stress, but it will be quieter there and they grew up there and settle quite quickly. I'm not sure what to do. I don't want to make it worse for her.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this. It does sound very stressful.

If you do decide to move for a while, then use soiled bedding when you set up the cage in a new environment. That way it will still smell like them and they find the transition much easier.

In terms of the potential bladder stone, there is a genetic element to it, but all you can do is control the diet.
It would be worth you having a check of the diet and ensure you are filtering their drinking water, feeding a grain free pellet and only feeding one tablespoon per pig per day. Most calcium comes into the diet via pellets and drinking water. Keeping the diet wet can help increase fluid intake and ensure good urination. Make sure you don’t feed high oxalate and high calcium veg items regularly.

I hope she is ok and do let us know how things go.

 

[Piggies2023]

Thank you. I can't decide what's best. They have a cage set up that is almost identical at my families house. I kind of wanted to be in when the new neighbours moved in so they are aware it's not soundproofed . But stress is off the scale and I'm worried about noise for them as well as my brain.

I use filtered water. In terms of vegetables. I feed round lettuce and green pepper in the morning, and change and add more meadow hay. Evening they get a change of meadow hay again romaine lettuce, red pepper and then one different vegetable which is either chicory, green beans, cucumber or mini corn normally. Sometimes coriander. They used to have parsnip and fennel sometimes but we stopped that when it looked like I was getting problems a month ago. Just before bed they get more Timothy hay, pellets and fresh water. Pellets I currently feed harringtons. They hate science selective. I've looked at other pellets but they are low on vitamin D which they don't get much of as they don't go outside and vitamin D helps absorb calcium so I didn't end up changing.


QUOTE="Piggies&buns, post: 2809247, member: 130015"]
I’m sorry to hear this. It does sound very stressful.

If you do decide to move for a while, then use soiled bedding when you set up the cage in a new environment. That way it will still smell like them and they find the transition much easier.

In terms of the potential bladder stone, there is a genetic element to it, but all you can do is control the diet.
It would be worth you having a check of the diet and ensure you are filtering their drinking water, feeding a grain free pellet and only feeding one tablespoon per pig per day. Most calcium comes into the diet via pellets and drinking water. Keeping the diet wet can help increase fluid intake and ensure good urination. Make sure you don’t feed high oxalate and high calcium veg items regularly.

I hope she is ok and do let us know how things go.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you. I can't decide what's best. They have a cage set up that is almost identical at my families house. I kind of wanted to be in when the new neighbours moved in so they are aware it's not soundproofed . But stress is off the scale and I'm worried about noise for them as well as my brain.

I use filtered water. In terms of vegetables. I feed round lettuce and green pepper in the morning, and change and add more meadow hay. Evening they get a change of meadow hay again romaine lettuce, red pepper and then one different vegetable which is either chicory, green beans, cucumber or mini corn normally. Sometimes coriander. They used to have parsnip and fennel sometimes but we stopped that when it looked like I was getting problems a month ago. Just before bed they get more Timothy hay, pellets and fresh water. Pellets I currently feed harringtons. They hate science selective. I've looked at other pellets but they are low on vitamin D which they don't get much of as they don't go outside and vitamin D helps absorb calcium so I didn't end up changing.

So in terms of the diet, it’s pretty much fine. All I would say is that coriander and cucumber is absolutely fine to be fed daily and be the only four daily veggies (coriander, lettuce, bell pepper, cucumber).
Chicory, green beans and mini corn - Id avoid these if she is diagnosed with bladder stones. Mini corn is a grain and grain should be avoided particularly with bladder pigs. Green beans are high in oxalates and can contribute to the formation of bladder stones.
In terms of pellets, Harrington’s looks to contains grain which personally I’d be looking to avoid in a bladder piggy. The reality is though that any pellet needs to be kept very limited.
I would not be concerned about the vit d because most pellets seem to have it in. I would put avoiding grain content as a priority ahead of vit d content.

 

[Piggies2023]

So in terms of the diet, it’s pretty much fine. All I would say is that coriander and cucumber is absolutely fine to be fed daily and be the only four daily veggies (coriander, lettuce, bell pepper, cucumber).
Chicory, green beans and mini corn - Id avoid these if she is diagnosed with bladder stones. Mini corn is a grain and grain should be avoided. Green beans are high in oxalates and can contribute to the formation of bladder stones.
In terms of pellets, Harrington’s looks to contains grain which personally I’d be looking to avoid in a bladder piggy. The reality is though that any pellet needs to be kept very limited.
I would not be concerned about the vit d because most pellets seem to have it in. I would put avoiding grain content as a priority ahead of vit d content.

Thank you for the advice. Is chicory high in calcium too? I was giving one green bean to each piggie a day as I thought it may be high to give too much. What would you give instead please?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you for the advice. Is chicory high in calcium too? I was giving one green bean to each piggie a day as I thought it may be high to give too much. What would you give instead please?

I don’t feed chicory (it’s not something I buy).

I know people do feed a green bean daily but to me I wouldn’t give it more than once a week due to oxalates but particularly with a diagnosed bladder stone piggy I’d perhaps not give them at all.

You don’t need to give anything instead - you can literally stick to just giving the four daily veggies (coriander, cucumber, lettuce, bell pepper) which contain a good balance of nutrients and water without being high in things you want to avoid.

So to stick to your routine veg wise, you could give lettuce and pepper in the morning and then in an evening feed cucumber and coriander

 

[Piggies2023]

I don’t feed chicory (it’s not something I buy).

I know people do feed a green bean daily but to me I wouldn’t give it more than once a week due to oxalates but particularly with a diagnosed bladder stone piggy I’d perhaps not give them at all.

You don’t need to give anything instead - you can literally stick to just giving the four daily veggies (coriander, cucumber, lettuce, bell pepper) which contain a good balance of nutrients and water without being high in things you want to avoid.

So to stick to your routine veg wise, you could give lettuce and pepper in the morning and then in an evening feed cucumber and coriander

Thank you. Just need to decide on a new pellet food now. They aren't a fan of science selective that everyone raves about.

 

[Piggies&buns]

So I have just switched my piggies to Piggie Parcels pellets - just grass pellets.
Piggie Parcels is a small business run by a member of this forum and I cannot recommend it highly enough - I buy lots of forage and now the pellets from her (many of us use her products).


Piggie Parcels

 

[Piggies2023]

So I have just switched my piggies to Piggie Parcels pellets - just grass pellets.
Piggie Parcels is a small business run by a member of this forum and I cannot recommend it highly enough - I buy lots of forage and now the pellets from her (many of us use her products).


Piggie Parcels

I have some forage from piggie parcels. But I'm never sure of the calicum content of the dried forage. Do you know where I can find out?

 

[Piggies&buns]

I have some forage from piggie parcels. But I'm never sure of the calicum content of the dried forage. Do you know where I can find out?

Dried forage will be come in slightly higher given the water is removed but none of the nutrients are. However, it does depend what items you are feeding - some will need to be kept more limited than others.
What I will say is that I only give pellets three times a week and on the days I dont give pellets, I use forage instead. (The pellets three times a week is a hangover from commercial pellets for me but I would be much happier to feed PP pellets daily).
I use a variety of forages and they may only end up having one type once or twice a week.
To me, pellets and dried forage are the same thing and only form a very minor part.

Amanda herself will be able to tell you which items are ones to keep low depending on what you are buying.
@Guineautopia

 

[Guineautopia]

@Lucy3733
Hi Lucy, if you want to email me via my webpage I’m happy to discuss suitable forage options. Re the pellets, the PP Pellet had a very good vitamin d level, much higher that your current brand I think.
I hope you are not feeling so stressed today, we’ve had sone neighbours doing work for months, so I can understand the stress! I walk about with my headphones in all day listen to something to drown it out xx

 

[Guineautopia]

So I have just switched my piggies to Piggie Parcels pellets - just grass pellets.
Piggie Parcels is a small business run by a member of this forum and I cannot recommend it highly enough - I buy lots of forage and now the pellets from her (many of us use her products).


Piggie Parcels

Thank you for the kind words and support

 

[Piggies2023]

@Lucy3733
Hi Lucy, if you want to email me via my webpage I’m happy to discuss suitable forage options. Re the pellets, the PP Pellet had a very good vitamin d level, much higher that your current brand I think.
I hope you are not feeling so stressed today, we’ve had sone neighbours doing work for months, so I can understand the stress! I walk about with my headphones in all day listen to something to drown it out xx

Thank you. I will drop you an email. Turns out no bladder stones turned up on the x-ray but vet is currently thinking sterile cysistis. She's having really small wees so I'm going to have to contact the vet again this week.

 

[Free Ranger]

I'm sorry to hear that, but it's good news about the stones at least. I'm assuming they ruled out infection too? And how did you get on with the mite treatment - did they both get treated at the same time?

If she's a SIC piggy the big thing to keep her comfortable is a solid routine she can rely on. And supplementing with glucosamine in her diet is recommended as really helpful. I'm assuming you've been reading round the forum about that..?

 

[Piggies2023]

I'm sorry to hear that, but it's good news about the stones at least. I'm assuming they ruled out infection too? And how did you get on with the mite treatment - did they both get treated at the same time?

If she's a SIC piggy the big thing to keep her comfortable is a solid routine she can rely on. And supplementing with glucosamine in her diet is recommended as really helpful. I'm assuming you've been reading round the forum about that..?

I don't feel infection has been fully ruled out as she hasn't had a urine test since start of March and we haven't had antibiotics since then. Vet doesn't think it's that because she doesn't smell anymore and I think because she has less blood in her urine. I'm going to ring the vets as soon as the open tomorrow as she's only doing tiny little wees, like tiny.

I think the medication is stressing her out, I can't get her to take the cystease on vegetables. I think maybe I need to slowly add a little bit each time in hopes she gets used to it on veg. But she hates being picked up, so she's not happy.

The vet gave them mite injections when Nancy went for an x-ray. They are starting to scratch again but they are due another one this week.

 

[Free Ranger]

I used to give my boy Oxbow joint support biscuits (purple on pack) - just online from amazon or something. They also do a Urinary support one (yellow on pack). But they are the same price and the purple had twice as much glucosamine as the yellow (90mg instead of 45mg) which is more like the amount in a cystease capsule. George liked one for a treat so it was win-win. He'd eat either - my girl Flora doesn't mind the yellows but won't touch the purples, the fusspot! I only ended up buying the yellows because the girl's faces used to literally drop when Georgie got his 'treat' and they got nothing. I used to break one in half to keep everypig happy. Yes, I am a soft touch! Little-and-often wees might well be from an inflamed bladder and either infection or SIC can cause that.

Mites have roughly a 3 week life cycle from hatching to breeding. Repeat treatments are often because the medicine kills live mites but not unhatched eggs, so you have to wait for the eggs to hatch out and then treat again before the new critters are mature enough to breed. My vet uses a topical spot-on lotion called xeno which contains ivermectin. We have to do 3 treatments each two weeks apart to break the cycle. Once we got prescribed 2 treatments 3 weeks apart by mistake and our mites came back. Not surprising I suppose! Timing is important.

Timing is also important for antibiotics. When an antibiotic works you should see clear improvement in symptoms within a day or two. The temptation is then to cut the course short because piggy is 'better' but just like with people you should complete the course the vet has given. However, if we do not see a clear improvement after 3 days I always contact my vet again and generally we switch to a different antibiotic. The same rules apply to the new antibiotic... do we see improvement after a few days? Over 10+ years of piggies I would say that Baytril (the usual 1st AB my vet gives) has worked about 2/3 of the time and 1/3 we've had to switch. That might just be us, but my vets are never surprised. Resistance is becoming more common. If they persuade you to persevere with an antibiotic for a week or more, and you get the impression she might be a bit better but she's not 'cured' it may be a partially resistant bug - this can quite easily happen and if the AB hasn't worked in the first few days there's no reason it should suddenly cure her after a fortnight. BUT the problem might be something that is not caused by bacterial infection at all, in which case no AB will cure it. Personally I don't rule out infection until I've tried two alternatives and even then it's all about the timing.

My old George has now passed, but he used to get repeated UTIs towards the end of his life and the old faithful antibiotic Baytril did not kill our bug. George had a couple of tests - both showing negative for bacteria which was irritating and expensive. But it was definitely an infection because our second antibiotic choice (Septrin) worked like a charm, although unfortunately it affected poor George's guts very badly. My rainbow girl had been on this one for weeks with no ill effects at all so beloved George was sadly just unfortunate. At least it didn't hurt when he peed any more though.

I hope your girl can get some respite x

 

[Piggies2023]

I used to give my boy Oxbow joint support biscuits (purple on pack) - just online from amazon or something. They also do a Urinary support one (yellow on pack). But they are the same price and the purple had twice as much glucosamine as the yellow (90mg instead of 45mg) which is more like the amount in a cystease capsule. George liked one for a treat so it was win-win. He'd eat either - my girl Flora doesn't mind the yellows but won't touch the purples, the fusspot! I only ended up buying the yellows because the girl's faces used to literally drop when Georgie got his 'treat' and they got nothing. I used to break one in half to keep everypig happy. Yes, I am a soft touch! Little-and-often wees might well be from an inflamed bladder and either infection or SIC can cause that.

Mites have roughly a 3 week life cycle from hatching to breeding. Repeat treatments are often because the medicine kills live mites but not unhatched eggs, so you have to wait for the eggs to hatch out and then treat again before the new critters are mature enough to breed. My vet uses a topical spot-on lotion called xeno which contains ivermectin. We have to do 3 treatments each two weeks apart to break the cycle. Once we got prescribed 2 treatments 3 weeks apart by mistake and our mites came back. Not surprising I suppose! Timing is important.

Timing is also important for antibiotics. When an antibiotic works you should see clear improvement in symptoms within a day or two. The temptation is then to cut the course short because piggy is 'better' but just like with people you should complete the course the vet has given. However, if we do not see a clear improvement after 3 days I always contact my vet again and generally we switch to a different antibiotic. The same rules apply to the new antibiotic... do we see improvement after a few days? Over 10+ years of piggies I would say that Baytril (the usual 1st AB my vet gives) has worked about 2/3 of the time and 1/3 we've had to switch. That might just be us, but my vets are never surprised. Resistance is becoming more common. If they persuade you to persevere with an antibiotic for a week or more, and you get the impression she might be a bit better but she's not 'cured' it may be a partially resistant bug - this can quite easily happen and if the AB hasn't worked in the first few days there's no reason it should suddenly cure her after a fortnight. BUT the problem might be something that is not caused by bacterial infection at all, in which case no AB will cure it. Personally I don't rule out infection until I've tried two alternatives and even then it's all about the timing.

My old George has now passed, but he used to get repeated UTIs towards the end of his life and the old faithful antibiotic Baytril did not kill our bug. George had a couple of tests - both showing negative for bacteria which was irritating and expensive. But it was definitely an infection because our second antibiotic choice (Septrin) worked like a charm, although unfortunately it affected poor George's guts very badly. My rainbow girl had been on this one for weeks with no ill effects at all so beloved George was sadly just unfortunate. At least it didn't hurt when he peed any more though.

I hope your girl can get some respite x

Nancy unfortunately refuses to eat the oxbow yellow ones.


I would like her to try antibiotics, I asked last week. But I will ask again, as she is getting worse rather than better so maybe the vet will be more inclined to try now. I'm actually quite worried about her. Interesting to hear you say that George's culture was negative as I'm keen to try antibiotics whether it's clear or not. But she's doing so small wees a culture is unlikely anyway.

I have some xeno, but the vet was keen to use the injection she uses because she has seen some resistant cases recently. And it's entirely possible with how much they've been at the vets they could have picked it up.

 

[eileen]

you can give cystease by breaking open the capsule.using an empty medicine container,mix one mls of water.vigourously shake the water and powder mixture.give 1/2 the mixture with a syringe twice aday.i hope your piggie gets better soon,or control of the problem.

 

[Piggies2023]

you can give cystease by breaking open the capsule.using an empty medicine container,mix one mls of water.vigourously shake the water and powder mixture.give 1/2 the mixture with a syringe twice aday.i hope your piggie gets better soon,or control of the problem.

She's on cystease currently. But 1/2 a capsule a day. And metacam twice a day. It doesn't seem to be doing anything. She seems to be getting worse.

 

[eileen]

I'm sorry to read this.i give 2 capsules once aday when the symptoms are not controlled.you are contacting the vet ,so wait until you get more advice.it maybe needs more pain relief,or uti,or something else is off.i hope you can get to the bottom of this.

 

[Piggies2023]

I'm sorry to read this.i give 2 capsules once aday when the symptoms are not controlled.you are contacting the vet ,so wait until you get more advice.it maybe needs more pain relief,or uti,or something else is off.i hope you can get to the bottom of this.

Thank you. Yes, definitely ringing the vet first thing in the morning.

 

[Piggies2023]

I'm sorry to read this.i give 2 capsules once aday when the symptoms are not controlled.you are contacting the vet ,so wait until you get more advice.it maybe needs more pain relief,or uti,or something else is off.i hope you can get to the bottom of this.

Did your guinea pig ever have really small wees during a flare up? It's particularly worrying me.

 

[eileen]

Not that i have noticed.i do syringe feed 15mls of water ttwice aday,to attempt to flush the bladder.