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Mothers not eating/losing weight

Klac11

Klac11

New Born Pup
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I am a new guinea pig owner and I need help/advice please.

I have two mothers: one (Lucy) who gave birth to 4 babies 5 weeks ago and the other (Lola) to 3 babies 3 ½ weeks ago. Their 3 baby daughters are still in with them, the 4 boys were taken away as appropriate and are in pairs in cages next to them. They are all indoors and have reasonable space, clean C&C cages with fleece, plenty of hay etc. Note that the pregnancies were not intentional. I obtained 3 ‘sisters ‘ which turned out to be a boar and 2 sows (I think 5 months old). The girls were already pregnant. Its been quite a journey and I’ve tried my best to do everything I can for all of them. This forum has been very useful.

Both were brilliant mothers and looked after their babies really well and helped each other.. I took mums & babies when 2 ½ weeks to the vets to check them all over and confirm sex. The vets said everyone seemed great.

But in the last week both mums have lost interest in food and are losing weight. They are snuggled up in a fleece tent together most of the time and hardly coming out. Lola was weighed at the vets on Friday 14th January - she was 690g and is now 570g. Lucy is a similar weight. (Note they are smallish guinea pigs anyway. For context the dad/brother is really very solid and weighs 890g.). I only weight them once a week so only realised yesterday how bad it is.

If I take in a plate of veggies or add some handfuls of pay to the pile, they will come out and sniff it a bit not eat any of it, or maybe just one bit of lettuce or carrot of something and then go back to their fleece together. Previously they were very enthusiastic eaters and would eat voraciously and snatch it from their kids’ mouths etc. I tried feeding them separately from the kids but it made no difference.

At first I thought they were just exhausted after pregnancy/lactating etc and also perhaps missing the baby boys (Lucys left 2 weeks ago and Lolas have only just left) as well as wanting to wean the girls, but its not getting any better. They don’t look ill in any obvious way that I can judge.

They didn’t seem to be eating any of the dried pellets at all (small pet select), so I bought some Burgess pellets yesterday - both were vaguely enthusiastic about them to start with and ate 4-5 few pellets from my hand yesterday. But then lost interest. At least this shows they can eat?

I cut some handfuls of grass yesterday from the garden and they both briefly seemed keen and ran out of the fleece. They ate a bit but then lost interest.

The hay is a mix of timothy and meadow – they have always liked it before. I regularly add handfuls to the cage/in tubes etc and refresh the lot every few days. I am getting some alfafa hay today (I haven’t had any of this before) in an attempt to get them interested in something new. My understanding is that this is appropriate for mothers and babies.

Note all 7 babies seem to be doing great at the moment - full of life and enjoying their food.

What else can I do? Should I be force/syringe feeding them? I feel very anxious about doing this.

I plan to phone the vets tomorrow, or possibly see a local emergency vet today (but I’m not sure how much they will know about guinea pigs) I am in rural Norfolk.

In the meantime, any ideas from people with more experience would be very welcome. Thanks.
 
I’m sorry to hear the mums aren’t as well as usual. Loss of weight is due to not eating enough hay. Pellets only make up 5% Of their diet requirements, while veg makes only 10%. So eating those will not be enough to get their weight up.

I would now start weighing them once daily and give them top up feeds. You are aiming to help them maintain their weight so try for 60ml in a 24 hour period. You can try offering it to them in a bowl or on a spoon. Sometimes they eat it better that way.

I would not feed them alfalfa. It is high in calcium and is not suitable once babies are weaned.

I would call your vet tomorrow and they can hopefully squeeze them in. Good luck and I hope it’s something simple.

Recommended Guinea Pig Vets

PS who is dad living with? If he’s with one pair of boys then you will need to decide which two get on best and separate the third.
 
As they are losing weight, you must step in and syringe feed them straight away to stop any more weight loss and see a vet.
Please do weigh them every day so you can monitor their food intake and know they are getting enough syringe feed in each 24 hours to stop the weight loss.

I agree, I would not give them alfalfa. It isn’t a grass hay so should not be in their diet.

Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Weight - Monitoring and Management
 
Thank you for the advice. I'll read the guides to top-up feeding and will do that. I'm feeling very stressed about it as don't want to get it wrong.

& thanks for the advice about alfafa hay. I was desperately trying to find them something different that they might want to eat and also trying to work out what I had done wrong.

(the dad is sadly on his own at the mo. I would have paired him with a baby if had an odd number, but we had 2 pairs of brothers so its gone that way. I need to find a boar to rehome him with or possibly neuter and keep. Been concentrating on getting through the pregnancies first)

Thanks again.
 
You definitely haven’t done anything wrong. Please don’t think you have.
They do need to see a vet though as they have lost a lot of weight in a week.

This link may also be useful

Today's instructional video on our Facebook page - Syringe feeding

As long as dad’s cage is next to the other piggies, then he will be fine as they can communicate through the bars. Do ensure all the boys cages are very secure as boars can be determined to escape and get back in with sows.
 
Thanks. I definitely do not want any more boars mixing with sows! I couldn't go through this again, let alone them. I really have done nothing but worry about guinea pigs for the last month. I thought id finally got through it all ok, so feel devastated that the mums are now poorly. The recently separated boys are crying for mum all the time too, which is heart-breaking.

I'll feed a found a vet to speak to later today and possibly see them later. I'll see what they say. thanks.
 
Wow you certainly have your hands full.

I am pleased that you have found a vet you can speak to. Really both mums need to be examined today to see if they have some form of infection or illness requiring medication. In the meantime please do step in with syringe feeding as per the guides linked above. You can feed mushed pellets in the syringe if necessary but it is critical that you get some feed into them to keep their guts moving.

Tagging @Wiebke
 
Hi and welcome

I can't add to the advice already given. Please step in with feeding support (we offer emergency alternatives for the short term since the onset of illness often happens when you are not prepared) and see a vet as soon as possible; if necessary out of hours. Loss of appetite is always a serious health issue that cannot wait.
You will find the links in this thread full of all the practical tips and information that you need but that would exceed our posts.

Very sorry that you are finding yourself in this situation and keeping my fingers firmly crossed!

PS: Keep in mind that pregnancy and nursing are a heavy load on an immune system, so any mothers are more vulnerable to any opportunistic infection/illness.
Please also check the gas alarm in your house if you have gas; guinea pigs react much more quickly than us humans but initial symptoms can be vague (being more quiet/lethargic with increasing loss of appetite). It is an angle that should not be overlooked, especially during the cold nights we are currently experiencing.
 
Good luck you sound like you are doing an amazing job.
 
You’ve done really well and still are. Keep going. I hope the vet visit went okay. Let us know how you and the girls get on.
 
Hi, thank you to everyone for your advice and kind words. It honestly really helped. Here is an update:

I saw an emergency vet yesterday (meant to be a guinea pig expert place) who said they were heading towards total gut stasis and gave me some anti-inflammatory meds and some meds to kick start digestion. I ‘ve been feeding emeraid critical care & water every 4 hours - the first few feeds went well (they sort of wanted it) but during the night they were tired and resistant - it was hard to get anything in them.

It seemed like they were deteriorating , so I took them to my normal vet this morning. They have now been hospitalised for more meds, intravenous fluids and feeding. The vet thought there was a chance we can get them both through it, although one is much sicker than the other.

It’s a bit of a mystery as to why this happened – neither vet could come up with a reason. Maybe something psychological stopped one of them eating and that affected the other because they are so closely bonded. Lucy definitely became a bit withdrawn when she weaned the babies and the boys were removed - it kind of went downhill from there.

I thought I was feeding them ok but maybe I overdid the veg or something. I also wish I’d acted a couple of days earlier but that’s hindsight for you.

Anyway, fingers crossed for them. xx
 
I hope they will both improve and can come home.
 
Fingers very firmly crossed for them!

I doubt that it is your diet; it is more likely an infection or an environmental angle if both have fallen ill at the same time and are exhibiting the same vague symptoms; if it is to do with post-nursing only in the respect that their immune systems are still a little weaker than they would normally be due to the extra pressure from the pregnancy and nursing.

It is very normal for us humans (and especially the caring and responsible ones) to always seek the fault with their own actions first and foremost.

Have you checked your gas alarm? We have seen the very odd case in winter that was caused by a lack of or a faulty gas alarm.

I am so sorry for you continuing nightmare!
 
Nothing more to add but I did want to say you are doing an amazing job, and are handling an awkward and unexpected situation really well.
Hang in there - we are all here to support you, and nursing ill guinea pigs can be exhausting, both mentally and physically.
Look after yourself too.
 
Just read your post, what a stressful journey you have had, so sorry about your little Mum’s, just wondered and hoping they are recovering x
 
How are your girls doing? Thinking of you and them and keeping my fingers very firmly crossed!
 
I was also wondering how the two mums were doing. Fingers crossed they are on the mend.
 
There is a sad end to this thread I’m afraid - they have both died after several days of round the clock feed and meds.

I am still not clear what happened. I agree with the comments that its likely to be something environmental or infectious given that it was both at the same time. esp as both would have had low immunity. I keep googling stuff and going over everything I did to find a cause, like I accidentally poisoned them or something. I’ve ruled out a gas leak.

The last vet who examined them thought that Lola had an unborn foetus inside, which is at least an explanation of sorts - on vet advice we decided putting her through surgery would be unfair at this stage, and so my daughter gave her a final cuddle this afternoon before saying goodbye. Lucy had nothing discernibly wrong to account for the loss of appetite and actually seemed less poorly throughout – she was even independently eating a bit - but suddenly deteriorated and then died in the night. We had managed to get enough formula into them to slightly increase their weight and for the last 24 hrs they were both at the vets under full time care, so at least we tried .

I still have the seven baby piggies and a lonely dad who all appear to be thriving and chomping on hay happily. My daughter wants to keep the three baby girls (& maybe dad if we neuter him) - maybe I’ll be persuaded in the end, but right now I think I’m done with it. This guinea pig experience has broken me.

Unfortunately I still have the challenge of rehoming them in a month or so- am feeling really anxious about this, as want them to go to nice homes. There are no local rescues and they are inundated already. In retrospect, the ones we got didn’t come from great conditions. It was just a local guy on gumtree, not a breeder - he seemed nice enough but hadn’t spotted that one was male and 2 were heavily pregnant - also, looking back on it I think they only had straw in their outdoor hutch - didn’t see any hay - and it was a bit bleak, so perhaps they were already malnourished when I got them but just hiding it well. & they had got pregnant really young, poor little things. I am new to the world of guinea pigs and starting to realise that there are lot of sad stories out there – sorry to have added mine to it.

Sorry for all the details, its been therapeutic to write this!

Thank you to everyone who offered advice and kind thoughts. Sorry there wasn’t a happy ending this time. Take care all xx
 
Klac11 said:
There is a sad end to this thread I’m afraid - they have both died after several days of round the clock feed and meds.

I am still not clear what happened. I agree with the comments that its likely to be something environmental or infectious given that it was both at the same time. esp as both would have had low immunity. I keep googling stuff and going over everything I did to find a cause, like I accidentally poisoned them or something. I’ve ruled out a gas leak.

The last vet who examined them thought that Lola had an unborn foetus inside, which is at least an explanation of sorts - on vet advice we decided putting her through surgery would be unfair at this stage, and so my daughter gave her a final cuddle this afternoon before saying goodbye. Lucy had nothing discernibly wrong to account for the loss of appetite and actually seemed less poorly throughout – she was even independently eating a bit - but suddenly deteriorated and then died in the night. We had managed to get enough formula into them to slightly increase their weight and for the last 24 hrs they were both at the vets under full time care, so at least we tried .

I still have the seven baby piggies and a lonely dad who all appear to be thriving and chomping on hay happily. My daughter wants to keep the three baby girls (& maybe dad if we neuter him) - maybe I’ll be persuaded in the end, but right now I think I’m done with it. This guinea pig experience has broken me.

Unfortunately I still have the challenge of rehoming them in a month or so- am feeling really anxious about this, as want them to go to nice homes. There are no local rescues and they are inundated already. In retrospect, the ones we got didn’t come from great conditions. It was just a local guy on gumtree, not a breeder - he seemed nice enough but hadn’t spotted that one was male and 2 were heavily pregnant - also, looking back on it I think they only had straw in their outdoor hutch - didn’t see any hay - and it was a bit bleak, so perhaps they were already malnourished when I got them but just hiding it well. & they had got pregnant really young, poor little things. I am new to the world of guinea pigs and starting to realise that there are lot of sad stories out there – sorry to have added mine to it.

Sorry for all the details, its been therapeutic to write this!

Thank you to everyone who offered advice and kind thoughts. Sorry there wasn’t a happy ending this time. Take care all xx
Click to expand...

BIG HUGS

I am so sorry that it has all gone so badly haywire for you. Losing mothers and babies is one of the most heart-breaking things that can happen to any rescuer. :(
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

It is NOTHING you have done wrong but if there is one unborn baby still in there then there is a good chance that it may be down to genetic damage to the womb in combination with bad care. The problem is likely to go generations back.

Perhaps this rather upsetting unfolding story from a German rescue with a forum link a couple of years ago in the middle of the pandemic may give you a bit of new perspective? Of course, I cannot say what exactly has happened in your case, but the unborn baby could be a pointer for looking in a different direction: Guineas-in-germany-needing-to-be-rehomed
 
I’m so sorry that the outcome isn’t what anyone had hoped or planned for. Huge hugs x
 
I’m so sorry. That’s so sad. Please don’t blame yourself.
 
I am so sorry, you did absolutely either thing you could have done sending big hugs, you must feel devastated. Take heart that your little babies have a brighter future thanks to you taking in original piggies. I hope you can keep Dad and some of the babies, there is a lot of sadness out there but they are remarkable pets that give joy and love to many people as well as quite a bit of heartbreak when they leave us x

Sleep tight little ladies 🌈
 
Thank you for your comments.

If it is anything remotely similar to that awful German rescue situation , I now feel lucky that the mothers stayed alive until their babies were at least 3 weeks old as it could have been a much more challenging situation. And that (as far as I can tell and fingers crossed) all the little ones seem perfectly formed and healthy. Having reflected on it over night, I think I will at least keep the 3 young sows, then I can ensure they will never get pregnant.

The resources on this site are great by the way. I used the bereavement stuff to help my daughter through it yesterday and she found it helpful to read this thread. My profile photo is now Lola having her final cuddle.

Best wishes all
 
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