Molar Malocclusion - Suddenly Not Eating After Vet

[Maria22]

Hi everyone!

I have a pig about four years old that I rescued a couple of years ago. I took him to the vet for a checkup last week and the vet informed me that one of his molars is overgrown and malocclused. I'm not entirely sure how this happened, though it hadn't been affecting his eating habits up until now. His hay intake had gone down a bit, but he would always at least eat his pellets and veggies.

So I take him home from the appointment and suddenly he's not eating. It's been five days now, and he hasn't once finished his pellets, and shows great hesitancy regarding his vegetables as well. Even favourite snacks like parsley are being left on the cage floor. While perhaps I might've missed a reduction in his hay intake or something, I can say with absolute certainty that these two things have never happened before. I have an appointment for a tooth filing scheduled for November 25th, but I'm worried that this may be too far away. Emailed today to ask if they might be able to see him sooner. I'm just extremely confused as to why things got so worse so suddenly after that appointment.

In the meantime, I'm wondering if it would be best for me to blend up his food or something to make it easier to eat? I know that he won't be wearing his teeth much while eating if I do so, but I also know that he can only go so long without eating. I'd really appreciate any advice with that specifically, or regarding the situation in general!

 

[Piggies&buns]

Hay is the most important part of their food intake, not veggies or pellets. If they arent eating veg or pellets then the chances are their hay intake has already greatly reduced and you must step in replace the fibre intake.
The only way to know they are eating enough is through routine weight checks. Guinea pigs should be weighed once a week while healthy throughout their lives, but you switch to daily weight checks when they are unwell so you can more closely monitor their hay intake.
If they aren't eating enough hay, and their weight is going down, then you must step in and syringe feed a fibre rich recovery feed or mushed pellets.
You use the daily weight checks as your guide as to whether you are syringe feeding enough - if their weight is stable at each daily check then you are feeding enough. If the weight goes down, then obviously need to increase the amount/frequency of syringe feeds.

The guide below explains further.

All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

Was he given any pain relief to come home with after his dental? A piggy in pain will be reluctant to eat so making sure it is managed is important.
Also, is the vet competent at piggy dentals?

 

[Maria22]

Hay is the most important part of their food intake, not veggies or pellets. If they arent eating veg or pellets then the chances are their hay intake has already greatly reduced and you must step in replace the fibre intake.
The only way to know they are eating enough is through routine weight checks. Guinea pigs should be weighed once a week while healthy throughout their lives, but you switch to daily weight checks when they are unwell so you can more closely monitor their hay intake.
If they aren't eating enough hay, and their weight is going down, then you must step in and syringe feed a fibre rich recovery feed or mushed pellets.
You use the daily weight checks as your guide as to whether you are syringe feeding enough - if their weight is stable at each daily check then you are feeding enough. If the weight goes down, then obviously need to increase the amount/frequency of syringe feeds.

The guide below explains further.

All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

Was he given any pain relief to come home with after his dental? A piggy in pain will be reluctant to eat so making sure it is managed is important.
Also, is the vet competent at piggy dentals?

Thank you so much for linking this! I'll try it in a minute.

I understand veggies and pellets aren't the most important part of his diet, but his hay intake has always varied pretty significantly just based on how much he likes any particular bag of hay, while he's been consistent in polishing off the pellets and veg. I've been taking his weight weekly, and it had been consistent up until this appointment, though now he's starting to lose some weight. His poop was also normal.

He wasn't given any pain relief as she didn't do anything but diagnose the issue. She said she rinsed his mouth out, but I'm not sure what exactly that entailed. I don't really know how competent she is with guinea pig dental, as I've only been to her two other times for annual checkups.

 

[Maria22]

Update: The syringe wasn't working out, but he is enthusiastically devouring a bowl of goo. He rejected it at first, but I squeezed a bit of orange on it and mixed it up and he seems cool with it now.

 

[Merab]

Hope everything works out well.

 

[Maria22]

Hope everything works out well.

Thank you! He's perked up a fair bit with the mushy pellets, and he's now scheduled for his tooth trimming on Thursday. Hoping for the best

 

[Maria22]

Hi again! I posted a few days back about my pig with the malocclused molar. Thankfully, the vet was able to see him today, and his tooth trimming procedure went well He's been chewing away on toys and hay all day, and seems to be in a better mood.

My problem is that he still isn't eating much. I've been syringe feeding him over the last few days, though he hates most of the concoctions I've blended up for him (including critical care and mushy pellets). While he has been super zealous with chewing his hay, actually ingesting it is likely another matter. The only things he really eagerly devoured today were cilantro and lettuce. Even then, it took him a few minutes to get comfortable with chewing.

Cilantro and lettuce were the only things I've offered him today that he didn't have while his tooth was bothering him. My theory is that he's associated everything else with pain, thereby causing him to avoid them, but is that actually a thing that can happen? I'm considering buying some different hay and pellet food just to see if that would make a difference. I'm sticking with it and trying my best to get food in him, but I know I need to return him to a normal diet. If anyone has any idea what might be causing this and what I can do to help him, please let me know!

 

[Piggies&buns]

The only way to know that he is eating enough hay is by weighing him - make sure to weigh him daily while he is unwell and/or you are syringe feeding. If he isn’t eating enough hay and is losing weight then you need to top him up with more syringe feeds.

Yes, if they are in pain they will reduce the amount they eat. Is he on any painkillers? They can also lose confidence in eating once they’ve had dental issues and need to relearn that it’s ok again. Was he anaesthetised at all for his procedure?

I will merge this new post with your previous thread. Its easier if you keep to the same thread for the same topic as we then have all the background. To find your previous threads, you can click on ‘find threads’ at the top banner.

 

[Bill & Ted]

Wishing your little piggie. They definitely lose confidence eating. If it hurt last time then I won’t touch it again is there ideology. As @Piggies&buns says, keep weighing and support feed if he is still losing weight (you are looking at a downward trend) and offering his favourite bits of food. A bowl of plain porridge oats can be placed in the cage too. Good painkiller too as his mouth may be quite sore

If he is used to eating grass offer that too, if he isn’t then you could offer a few small strands and see if he’ll take them, grass is a good substitute for hay but can cause bloat in a little not used it

 

[Maria22]

The only way to know that he is eating enough hay is by weighing him - make sure to weigh him daily while he is unwell and/or you are syringe feeding. If he isn’t eating enough hay and is losing weight then you need to top him up with more syringe feeds.

Yes, if they are in pain they will reduce the amount they eat. Is he on any painkillers? They can also lose confidence in eating once they’ve had dental issues and need to relearn that it’s ok again. Was he anaesthetised at all for his procedure?

I will merge this new post with your previous thread. Its easier if you keep to the same thread for the same topic as we then have all the background. To find your previous threads, you can click on ‘find threads’ at the top banner.

Sorry for creating a second thread! I assumed this one would've expired or something by now.

I'll keep on weighing him. He was anaesthetised for the procedure, though he isn't on any painkillers now. He's been chewing stuff like crazy, which he wasn't doing before, so I don't think he's in pain anymore. Seems to just be a confidence issue. New foods are okay, but he will not touch anything that caused him pain in the last couple of weeks.

Wishing your little piggie. They definitely lose confidence eating. If it hurt last time then I won’t touch it again is there ideology. As @Piggies&buns says, keep weighing and support feed if he is still losing weight (you are looking at a downward trend) and offering his favourite bits of food. A bowl of plain porridge oats can be placed in the cage too. Good painkiller too as his mouth may be quite sore

If he is used to eating grass offer that too, if he isn’t then you could offer a few small strands and see if he’ll take them, grass is a good substitute for hay but can cause bloat in a little not used it

I hadn't heard of feeding them oats until today, but I'll try that. He isn't used to grass, but I may try a couple of pieces anyways. I am also thinking of trying a bit of alfalfa hay with him, since that's a bit more dense and it's something he shouldn't have a bad association with.

Overall, he's still losing weight, but he's in good spirits and I think we're making some progress. Thank you so much to both of you for the help and well wishes

 

[Piggies&buns]

Sorry for creating a second thread! I assumed this one would've expired or something by now.

I'll keep on weighing him. He was anaesthetised for the procedure, though he isn't on any painkillers now. He's been chewing stuff like crazy, which he wasn't doing before, so I don't think he's in pain anymore. Seems to just be a confidence issue. New foods are okay, but he will not touch anything that caused him pain in the last couple of weeks.



I hadn't heard of feeding them oats until today, but I'll try that. He isn't used to grass, but I may try a couple of pieces anyways. I am also thinking of trying a bit of alfalfa hay with him, since that's a bit more dense and it's something he shouldn't have a bad association with.

Overall, he's still losing weight, but he's in good spirits and I think we're making some progress. Thank you so much to both of you for the help and well wishes

If he is losing weight then he needs to be syringe fed more/given bowls of recovery feed to stabilise his weight. He needs to be syringe fed enough until he regains confidence and eats plenty of hay for himself.

I understand you want him to start eating but alfalfa is high calcium and not a grass hay, so be careful. You wouldn’t want him to start to only eat alfalfa and not regular grass hay because alfalfa should not be in their diet.

 

[Maria22]

If he is losing weight then he needs to be syringe fed more/given bowls of recovery feed to stabilise his weight. He needs to be syringe fed enough until he regains confidence and eats plenty of hay for himself.

I understand you want him to start eating but alfalfa is high calcium and not a grass hay, so be careful. You wouldn’t want him to start to only eat alfalfa and not regular grass hay because alfalfa should not be in their diet.

You're right. I ended up not feeding any alfalfa. Sticking with the syringe feeding.

 

[Maria22]

So I've been syringe feeding for the last couple of days, but in that time he's stopped eating his other food. Today, he also stopped pooping. I'm giving him recovery food and water via syringe still, and I've managed to largely curb his weight loss, but I'm really bothered by the lack of poop. At times, he seems to be in pain. I'm afraid he may have a blockage or something.

I'm trying my best to keep a positive attitude and persist, but I don't know how to help him and I feel really tired and discouraged. If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know. I just don't want him to suffer.

 

[Maria22]

Little guy is doing a fair bit better today! Woke up and he was picking at some veggies and hay, and he pooped a few times overnight. He latched onto the water syringe pretty enthusiastically, and generally seems to have more energy today.

Problem with that increase in energy is that he now has the energy to spit out the critical care lol. I'm going to try switching him back to blended pellets in a bit. I've got a different variety of critical care coming in the mail tomorrow, so hopefully he likes that one more.

 

[Wheekallweek]

Best of luck, he's lucky to have you. What a gorgeous boy he is!

 

[Maria22]

Thought I'd post a more positive update I started a probiotic and it works like magic! Little guy devours a tube of Bene-bac and almost instantly perks up and starts munching away. He mostly goes for veggies right now, but he's slowly getting back into his hay and pellets.

Thank you all for your help!

 

[Free Ranger]

Cilantro and lettuce were the only things I've offered him today that he didn't have while his tooth was bothering him. My theory is that he's associated everything else with pain, thereby causing him to avoid them, but is that actually a thing that can happen?

I think this is definitely a thing. I've seen it in my pigs. My girl Louise got bloat in spring after gorging on new turf in the garden. She has been wary of it ever since although if I pick it and bring it inside she'll eat it, and she'll eat any other grass I bring too. George is currently struggling with poor appetite on an antibiotic and I have to rotate his veggies and change up his CC mix.

We have to be careful and monitor poops for our faddy eaters. It's important that they get their fibre, in terms of hay, syringe food, even grass. A diet weighted too heavily towards veg and salad risks bloat causing trouble. They get a gassy build up and it can stop them eating/pooping. Louise's sides felt hard - she was like a little barrel. I had to give gut stimulant, painkiller (metacam), syringe food to push things through, and massage her on a heatpad!

Did you get a check up booked in for after the dental? After my girl had one she was prescribed metacam for a week while she got used to her new teeth. Then she got checked again to see how the teeth were doing. It can take a while to learn how to use them (I think that would explain all the chewing - he's fine tuning them) but I'm not sure at what point we have to stop and think whether something has been missed - like a little spur or something. Perhaps something which might have triggered the malocclusion in the first place. But it's still early days and weight once lost is generally slow to regain even if they are eating normally so he's still doing OK. Ideally you don't want him losing more weight, especially if he is one of those piggies for whom a twinge can put him off eating one of his food groups.

I'm going to try and get some of that bene-bac for George!

 

[Maria22]

I think this is definitely a thing. I've seen it in my pigs. My girl Louise got bloat in spring after gorging on new turf in the garden. She has been wary of it ever since although if I pick it and bring it inside she'll eat it, and she'll eat any other grass I bring too. George is currently struggling with poor appetite on an antibiotic and I have to rotate his veggies and change up his CC mix.

We have to be careful and monitor poops for our faddy eaters. It's important that they get their fibre, in terms of hay, syringe food, even grass. A diet weighted too heavily towards veg and salad risks bloat causing trouble. They get a gassy build up and it can stop them eating/pooping. Louise's sides felt hard - she was like a little barrel. I had to give gut stimulant, painkiller (metacam), syringe food to push things through, and massage her on a heatpad!

Did you get a check up booked in for after the dental? After my girl had one she was prescribed metacam for a week while she got used to her new teeth. Then she got checked again to see how the teeth were doing. It can take a while to learn how to use them (I think that would explain all the chewing - he's fine tuning them) but I'm not sure at what point we have to stop and think whether something has been missed - like a little spur or something. Perhaps something which might have triggered the malocclusion in the first place. But it's still early days and weight once lost is generally slow to regain even if they are eating normally so he's still doing OK. Ideally you don't want him losing more weight, especially if he is one of those piggies for whom a twinge can put him off eating one of his food groups.

I'm going to try and get some of that bene-bac for George!

Interesting stuff about the grass! I'd try giving him some, but we already have snow on the ground here.

We went to the vet today, and she examined him very thoroughly, but she couldn't actually find anything wrong with him. She said it could be an anesthesia complication, but she found it strange because he apparently was eating very quickly after he woke up. Ultimately, she gave him some subcutaneous fluids as well as an antibiotic and painkiller and didn't charge me anything for the visit, which was extremely kind of her. They said they'd follow up with me on his condition later in the week. Hopefully this helps him!

 

[Maria22]

Alright so Pigbert has been on the antibiotic and pain meds for 6 days now and he seems to be about the same. The pain meds liven him up, but he's still not eating despite sniffing at his food and water pretty consistently.

I'm wondering if this could be TMJ or something? Planning on messaging the vet once they're open to ask about that. At the very least, I'd like to keep him on something for the pain.

Does anyone have any experience with the chin sling? Can't seem to find anything recent about it, but I still see people mentioning it online from time to time.

 

[Free Ranger]

I've not seen the chin sling recommended on here at all. I think it was invented for something very specific - pigs whose mouths have been strained open by vastly overgrown incisors. That's not Pigbert. If there is something in the mouth causing pain I think putting them in a sling to hold it shut would make him miserable. Tbh I wouldn't have thought TMJ myself (one of my kids gets that). Sounds like he's hungry and wants to eat but just can't bring himself to do it. Is he still managing the mushed pellets or recovery food to get his fibre? How's his weight?

When you first took him in did you/they notice whether his incisors were slanting one way or whether they were worn evenly? It's just that his molars weren't overgrown on both sides - it sounds like it was one sided and mainly one tooth. Maybe he was chewing to one side for a while? This can happen, but something that does pop up on here pretty regularly is gum abscess/root infection which makes eating hard things painful at first, and eventually makes eating anything painful. Sometimes this can be felt as a swelling or tender point around the jawline but not always, and especially not in the early stages. One poster had a piggy who turned out to have an open ulcer right at the back of the mouth on one side - almost impossible to see (they certainly went through a few vets trying to find the answer). You'd think antibiotics would tackle this but not all are effective if there is an abscess buried in the gum there. One called Zithromax is worth looking into if your vet suspects an abscess.

It's tricky with teeth to know whether the dental issue is the problem or just the unfortunate result of an underlying problem - possibly with the soft tissues of the mouth but possibly even somewhere else in the body. But if the vet gave him a thorough exam and found him fit and well I'd be focussing on the mouth area too.

 

[Maria22]

Hi everyone! I wanted to say thanks for all the help and provide a bit of an update!


Pigbert is still alive, which we all find quite surprising! He still isn't eating on his own (apart from small nibbles here and there and slurping up some blended veg), though he has gotten used to the syringe and will eat very eagerly that way.

My big concern at this point is that he seems to experience a fair amount of pain after eating and while passing stool. He'll be hunched over and, on particularly bad days, he'll be trembling as well. The pain seems to come in waves. His poop comes out in these HUGE soft chunks, so I guess this is a form of impaction, but I don't know what to do to help him. I'll probably take him back to the vet for another exam in the next couple of days.

I already messaged the vet to ask for more meloxicam, but is there anything I can do to help him with the pain while we wait?

 

[Wheekallweek]

Ah poor baby.
I think a heat pad for them to sit by is always nice. It probably won't help with the pain but might be comforting for him.
At least he is enjoying his syringe feed!
Get better soon Pigbert

 

[Free Ranger]

I second the heat pad. Or a (not too) hot water bottle wrapped in fleece to help his guts relax.

Does he feel bloated? Is he gassy or farting? Gentle massage on his sides with, for example, an electric toothbrush can help move gas along.
It's important he gets enough fibre in relation to his veggies. You can get soft poops and discomfort with bloating if he's overdoing the veg. If antibiotics have been involved that can also mess up the digestion. Probiotic mixed in with his mush can help this. If it's something metabolic and more serious there isn't much that can be done. However, it's important to get the balance of his diet right for now, whatever the outcome, so he can be as comfortable as possible. If he was well the advice would be to cut out the veg completely for a day or two to see if it makes a difference but in his case that'd make him pretty sad. Perhaps you can consider the balance and try to up the proportion of fibre as you drop the proportion of veg for a while. If you are just using standard pellets mushed up it's worth considering that specialist Recovery food (such as the Critical Care) is higher in fibre.

He's a very brave boy. How is his weight? When you say he is keen for the syringe food how much is he eating each day? Have you been able to lay hands on any grass? It's snowy and icy here so we're really struggling for a few blades too. He's not been eating hay for a long time now so I'm just wondering what the vet thinks of his teeth... bless him, he needs to be able to eat hay on his own x

 

[Maria22]

Ah poor baby.
I think a heat pad for them to sit by is always nice. It probably won't help with the pain but might be comforting for him.
At least he is enjoying his syringe feed!
Get better soon Pigbert

I second the heat pad. Or a (not too) hot water bottle wrapped in fleece to help his guts relax.

Does he feel bloated? Is he gassy or farting? Gentle massage on his sides with, for example, an electric toothbrush can help move gas along.
It's important he gets enough fibre in relation to his veggies. You can get soft poops and discomfort with bloating if he's overdoing the veg. If antibiotics have been involved that can also mess up the digestion. Probiotic mixed in with his mush can help this. If it's something metabolic and more serious there isn't much that can be done. However, it's important to get the balance of his diet right for now, whatever the outcome, so he can be as comfortable as possible. If he was well the advice would be to cut out the veg completely for a day or two to see if it makes a difference but in his case that'd make him pretty sad. Perhaps you can consider the balance and try to up the proportion of fibre as you drop the proportion of veg for a while. If you are just using standard pellets mushed up it's worth considering that specialist Recovery food (such as the Critical Care) is higher in fibre.

He's a very brave boy. How is his weight? When you say he is keen for the syringe food how much is he eating each day? Have you been able to lay hands on any grass? It's snowy and icy here so we're really struggling for a few blades too. He's not been eating hay for a long time now so I'm just wondering what the vet thinks of his teeth... bless him, he needs to be able to eat hay on his own x

Thanks to both of you! I've been putting him on top of a little plush heat pack thing for kids, which seems to make him happy. I think it helps with the cramping and pain. He's really perked up since I started doing it. Vet refilled the pain relief medication so I'll go pick that up tomorrow.

I probably forgot to mention it, but I'm mostly feeding the Oxbow Critical Care now. I usually throw some veggies in his cage even though he won't eat most of them. When I replace them with fresh ones, I'll often take the old ones and blend them up. He gets some of that as a treat, or I'll mix a bit of it in with the critical care for some variety. I'm also giving a liquid vitamin, and on the couple of occasions where he's had diarrhea I've been giving him unflavoured pedialyte.

He's eating 3+ dry tbsp of critical care a day now. I'll leave bowls of it out, but he's much less keen on eating it from the bowl since it gets all over his chin. He's got pellets in his cage as well, but he doesn't go for them. He's not losing weight anymore, thankfully. I'm concerned about the teeth too, as it's been about a month already since his trimming and he may need one again soon if he's not chewing.

 

[Maria22]

Forgot to say that I was giving a small tube of the Bene Bac probiotic every day, but I haven't been able to find it for a while. I picked up this one, which is for ferrets "and other small animals" and haven't used it yet, but I think it should be okay to give him?

 

[Free Ranger]

It looks like the same sort of thing as benebac doesn't it.
I got a big ol' syringe of benebac and rather than give it direct I mix it in to the critical care... I hope that when it's in there it'll grow up a bit!

 

[Maria22]

Felt that I should let you all know that Pigbert passed today. He was in high spirits right up until the end, and we had a lovely morning together before he left us in the afternoon.

I wanted to say thank you again to everyone for all the help with his care. The advice I received here helped me keep him as comfortable and happy as I could in his last month, and I'm extremely grateful for that

 

[Free Ranger]

I'm so sorry to hear your news. You did so much for him to keep him comfortable and make his final days full of happy little things to look forward too.
Take care of yourself as you grieve x
Sleep tight Pigbert