medical advice for 4 y/o male piggy

[Morgansetzer]

Hi friends,

I am a first time pig mom and have fell in love with my pigs in ways that I can’t describe. Recently, my first pig I adopted took a visit to the vet. Let me disclose that this was supposed to be a wellness check, I had heard sporadic sneezing but never consistent and I just wanted to be precautious and they (I have another piggy as well, they live separately— they unbonded sometime last year) just needed to see the vet in general.

My pig, Agnes, was at perfect health the vet told me! She said that he was a good looking pig and seemed to be doing great. But because of the sneezing she wanted to put her on antibiotics just to be proactive. I wasn’t too sure about that decision but she is the vet and I respect their education and all of their expertise, so I was like “okay sure”. I wasn’t surprised, I recently had added a extra addition to his 2x4 C&C cage and he was living for it. He had been running and popcorning and eating completely normally. And pooping excessively as pigs should. And we left the vet extremely happy and had a great rest of the day. I administered the antibiotics that night and went to sleep.

The next morning, I find that he isn’t eating any pellets and hasn’t touched his hay. This was immediately odd to me because he is a fatty and looooooves his veggies, pellets, and hay. I try to entice him with some favorite veggies and nothing seems to interest him. So I had to work that day so I left out some treats and lettuce before I left and told my boyfriend to check up on him when he gets up and try to hand feed him.

There was no luck and Agnes was still not eating. I became increasingly concerned because I am a chronic worrier and I know things can get bad for our precious pigs fast, they weren’t meant to be fighters.

I took Agnes to the vet the next morning immediately and they hospitalized him right away. The vet has been updating me since I had him hospitalized. None of them good: diarrhea, beginning to bloat, not responding to treatment, spitting out medicine. And I’m just so confused because this was not a problem last week. I really do suspect it’s something with the antibiotics but what do I know.

Agnes’ health is deteriorating quite fast and I know that there is a very real chance that today will be the last time I see my sweet baby, my first piggy again. It feels silly but I’m a wreck. I’m just so confused because this was so sudden and I don’t understand.

The vet told me if she doesn’t improve by tonight or tomorrow morning that she wants to start having the “quality of living” talks with me and that in itself makes me wanna throw up. I’m young, 19 y/o and still very new to grief. I know Agnes is suffering and in the end, if she is no longer able to lead a nice life that that is what I have to do. And I just am so devastated.

I know that there probably isn’t much left for Agnes but I really just would like some answers or maybe ideas as to what has happened.

Agnes is my sweet sweet baby and gave me a lot of love that I couldn’t give myself, if you’ve read this far, thank you :’)

 

[Tnoz]

Aww my heart is with you, I’m so sorry your going through this with your baby, it’s heartbreaking when our babies are poorly, we feel helpless and useless and stressed, big hugs and lots of love

 

[weepweeps]

Hello and welcome to the forum. I’m sorry your lovely Agnes is so poorly. Sometimes piggies can hide their illnesses so well that by the time you or the vet realise they are unwell it’s been brewing for a while. I hope with the treatment at the vets she is on the mend soon. Take care.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome

BIG HUGS

I am so very sorry; it sounds like she could have had an adverse reaction to the antibiotic? However, without you providing any croncrete details (re. brand names, dosage/and weight/age of your guinea pig) and without access to your piggy we can basically only guess as much as you do.

Adverse reactions to any antibiotic can unfortunately happen (not just in guinea pigs but in human medication, too); they are thankfully rare for the kind of extreme reaction your poor girl seems to be experiencing; but very occasionally they can totally wipe out the gut microbiome that is responsible for the digestive process and lead to dysbiosis (overgrowth of the wrong kind of bacteria with diarrhea and bloating issues), which can sometimes be very difficult to control. Your vet clinic are obviously doing their very best with what for them is as much a nightmare for the nurses as it is for you.

It can be that an underlying issue/weakness (genetic disposition) could be playing into some few guinea pigs not making a recovery despite regular feeding and probiotic gut support as well as guts stimulants etc.; but none of us is a vet nor can we replace on. However, this is just a speculation and can only ever be that, especially in view of the lack of verifiable details and research.

Please try not to feel guilty and also try not to be angry at your vet; you are obviously a very good owner doing what they should do and what your vet has done is standard good practice that we also support as a forum - untreated/undertreated respiratory bacterial or other germ loads (pneumo- or streptococcus) can lead to some very nasty and potentially fatal problems later on even if the actual load is comparatively small initially. It is just what I call 'cosmic bad luck' if you happen onto one of the random short straws out there.

I am keeping my fingers very firmly crossed for your poorly girl.

 

[Morgansetzer]

Hi and welcome

BIG HUGS

I am so very sorry; it sounds like she could have had an adverse reaction to the antibiotic? However, without you providing any croncrete details (re. brand names, dosage/and weight/age of your guinea pig) and without access to your piggy we can basically only guess as much as you do.

Adverse reactions to any antibiotic can unfortunately happen (not just in guinea pigs but in human medication, too); they are thankfully rare for the kind of extreme reaction your poor girl seems to be experiencing; but very occasionally they can totally wipe out the gut microbiome that is responsible for the digestive process and lead to dysbiosis (overgrowth of the wrong kind of bacteria with diarrhea and bloating issues), which can sometimes be very difficult to control. Your vet clinic are obviously doing their very best with what for them is as much a nightmare for the nurses as it is for you.

It can be that an underlying issue/weakness (genetic disposition) could be playing into some few guinea pigs not making a recovery despite regular feeding and probiotic gut support as well as guts stimulants etc.; but none of us is a vet nor can we replace on. However, this is just a speculation and can only ever be that, especially in view of the lack of verifiable details and research.

Please try not to feel guilty and also try not to be angry at your vet; you are obviously a very good owner doing what they should do and what your vet has done is standard good practice that we also support as a forum - untreated/undertreated respiratory bacterial or other germ loads (pneumo- or streptococcus) can lead to some very nasty and potentially fatal problems later on even if the actual load is comparatively small initially. It is just what I call 'cosmic bad luck' if you happen onto one of the random short straws out there.

I am keeping my fingers very firmly crossed for your poorly girl.

Thanks so much for your kind words and some ideas about what could be happening— I just think understanding what has happened will make my inevitable grieving process slightly easier. The antibiotics she started before she got ill was .03 mls of Enrofloxacin twice a day, and we did that for about a day and some change before I saw started to see the decrease in health. My vet has been amazing, she has been doing everything she can and has communicated terrifically with me. I’m eternally grateful for the support they’ve provided, they let me come sit and visit with her for as long as I wanted to today.

She looked incredibly ill and it honestly broke my heart. I definitely don’t think my vet did anything wrong at all, as I said they have been spectacular. Mostly what I’m struggling with is if I did something wrong. GI stasis is the main diagnosis for what is happening and from what I’ve researched, GI stasis happens from usually a poor diet. Which confuses me even more because I’m an Oxbow mom through and through (hay, pellets, treats, everything lol). I believe tomorrow may be her last day before I have to make the awful decision of whether or not to end her suffering. I could never ever stand to see her suffer, so ultimately I know what’s coming.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome

Thanks so much for your kind words and some ideas about what could be happening— I just think understanding what has happened will make my inevitable grieving process slightly easier. The antibiotics she started before she got ill was .03 mls of Enrofloxacin twice a day, and we did that for about a day and some change before I saw started to see the decrease in health. My vet has been amazing, she has been doing everything she can and has communicated terrifically with me. I’m eternally grateful for the support they’ve provided, they let me come sit and visit with her for as long as I wanted to today.

She looked incredibly ill and it honestly broke my heart. I definitely don’t think my vet did anything wrong at all, as I said they have been spectacular. Mostly what I’m struggling with is if I did something wrong. GI stasis is the main diagnosis for what is happening and from what I’ve researched, GI stasis happens from usually a poor diet. Which confuses me even more because I’m an Oxbow mom through and through (hay, pellets, treats, everything lol). I believe tomorrow may be her last day before I have to make the awful decision of whether or not to end her suffering. I could never ever stand to see her suffer, so ultimately I know what’s coming.

Enrofloxacin (which is the active ingredient in baytril) is one of the antibiotics that are a bit heavier on the gut hbacteria but it is by far the most prescribed antibiotic for guinea pigs and in many countries the only licensed antibiotic for guinea pigs. The vast majority of cases go fine and without a hitch, which is why it is still around. Adverse reactions can happen to any antibiotic. There are of course more bad reactions known of baytril because of the sheer numbers.

When doing any online research you have to always correct for the fact that you will inevitably get all the horror stories, all the stories where a grieving owner is putting 2 and 2 together and arriving at 153 and all the miracle recoveries and miracle cures.
What you will not find is the vast majority of perfectly unexceptional recoveries because they are simply taken for granted and are not worth posting about. We have a few times asked our regular members about their experiences with baytril or other common medication and the result was that nearly all experiences were in the 'normal' band.
But we have to adjust even our forum experiences for the fact that we are often contacted over problems so complications are somewhat over-represented on here.

The antibiotic dosage itself is on a reasonable level for a respiratory illness that I would be personally happy to see rather than on a lower dosage that is verging on the cosmetic. Regular baytril dosages for urinary tract problems would be higher than that. There is a bit higher risk of baytril impacting on the gut more if with a higher dosage but your vet has split it, so they have done the right thing there.
You can sometimes pull a piggy through with determined round the clock syringe feeding support but (I've done it a few times with another stronger make-or-break antibiotic where the alternative would have been euthanasia) but sometimes it just goes haywire despite the best care and effort.

If it would help you, here is some more information on gut issues: Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

Below is the link to our very practical but still sensitive support guides re. dying piggies, human grieving and bereaved companions. I have written them because there is heartily little around in terms of practical guidance and in view that pet loss is often the first personal encounter with death.
Our modern society has sadly very much pushed this aspect of life behind closed doors and is through depriving especially younger people of societal coping mechanisms like they existed in earlier centuries when death was much more common and very much part of communal life.
The grieving guide contains links to further support resources for pet bereavement if you need them.

Here is the access link; see whether the guides can help you now and in the coming days and weeks: Death, Dying, Terminal Illness; Human Grieving and Bereaved Companions: Information and Support for Owners and Their Children

It is now midnight in the UK where our forum is based; the last link will be there for you to help you while we are not around.

 

[Morgansetzer]

Enrofloxacin (which is the active ingredient in baytril) is one of the antibiotics that are a bit heavier on the gut hbacteria but it is by far the most prescribed antibiotic for guinea pigs and in many countries the only licensed antibiotic for guinea pigs. The vast majority of cases go fine and without a hitch, which is why it is still around. Adverse reactions can happen to any antibiotic. There are of course more bad reactions known of baytril because of the sheer numbers.

When doing any online research you have to always correct for the fact that you will inevitably get all the horror stories, all the stories where a grieving owner is putting 2 and 2 together and arriving at 153 and all the miracle recoveries and miracle cures.
What you will not find is the vast majority of perfectly unexceptional recoveries because they are simply taken for granted and are not worth posting about. We have a few times asked our regular members about their experiences with baytril or other common medication and the result was that nearly all experiences were in the 'normal' band.
But we have to adjust even our forum experiences for the fact that we are often contacted over problems so complications are somewhat over-represented on here.

The antibiotic dosage itself is on a reasonable level for a respiratory illness that I would be personally happy to see rather than on a lower dosage that is verging on the cosmetic. Regular baytril dosages for urinary tract problems would be higher than that. There is a bit higher risk of baytril impacting on the gut more if with a higher dosage but your vet has split it, so they have done the right thing there.
You can sometimes pull a piggy through with determined round the clock syringe feeding support but (I've done it a few times with another stronger make-or-break antibiotic where the alternative would have been euthanasia) but sometimes it just goes haywire despite the best care and effort.

If it would help you, here is some more information on gut issues: Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

Below is the link to our very practical but still sensitive support guides re. dying piggies, human grieving and bereaved companions. I have written them because there is heartily little around in terms of practical guidance and in view that pet loss is often the first personal encounter with death.
Our modern society has sadly very much pushed this aspect of life behind closed doors and is through depriving especially younger people of societal coping mechanisms like they existed in earlier centuries when death was much more common and very much part of communal life.
The grieving guide contains links to further support resources for pet bereavement if you need them.

Here is the access link; see whether the guides can help you now and in the coming days and weeks: Death, Dying, Terminal Illness; Human Grieving and Bereaved Companions: Information and Support for Owners and Their Children

It is now midnight in the UK where our forum is based; the last link will be there for you to help you while we are not around.

Thanks for all your lovely information, it was so very kind of you. Sadly my sweet Agnes crossed the rainbow bridge last night, she passed on her own. I got to visit my sweet baby yesterday, I am eternally grateful she waited for me to come see her before she decided it was time for her to go.

I’m incredibly distraught and devastated and not quite sure what to do with the grief I’m feeling. Thank you nonetheless for your support and information.

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks for all your lovely information, it was so very kind of you. Sadly my sweet Agnes crossed the rainbow bridge last night, she passed on her own. I got to visit my sweet baby yesterday, I am eternally grateful she waited for me to come see her before she decided it was time for her to go.

I’m incredibly distraught and devastated and not quite sure what to do with the grief I’m feeling. Thank you nonetheless for your support and information.

BIG HUGS

I am so, so sorry but so glad for the two of you that you could say goodbye and that you could be there for her.

Please try and seek trained help. You can find practical tips and resources for that at the end of our Grieving guide.
Here is the link again: Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

Unfortunately, we all have to grieve as much as we love - they are the two sides of the same coin. Agnes was very much loved indeed! And you can't hurry it on. Grieving is the darkness that makes the light of love shine out but it can be hard to bear when you have lost the light and can't see where you are emotionally.

 

[weepweeps]

I’m so sorry Agnes crossed the rainbow bridge. You did all you could for her. Take care