Lymphoma

[Clare King]

Hello there folks, I’m a longtime reader but occasional poster but away from this forum know a number of you personally and foster for the potteries rescue. We’ve unfortunately got a 3yr old boar who was diagnosed with Lymphoma 2 1/2 weeks ago. He went off his food the weekend of the first May bank holiday so we went to the vets (Cheshire Pet) and saw Cristian who exactly Billy and felt all his lymph nodes up so did a fine needle aspiration that day and within 48hrs the results were back that strongly indicated that he had lymphoma. He started on prednisone and tramadol and had a good few days. He then started looking a bit ‘ruffled’ and his breathing became far more noticeable and shallow so on consultation with the vets then we started on a twice daily low dose of frusol. The difference was quite remarkable and for the last 10 days then he’s looked bright, active and happy. We had a check
up appt on Monday and Cristian was very happy with how he looked, he’d gained weight and his lungs and heart sounded clear. Due to this then Cristian suggested taking the Frusol down to once a day to minimise any extra stress on his kidneys which we did. Unfortunately, his breathing has slowly but surely deteriorated again to how it was 8-9 days ago so with vet guidance then we’ve upped the frusol again. His breathing is better but still ‘noticeable’ and he’s much quieter today and definitely not wanting to eat as much. He will still have 15mls of Emeraid though.
So…we’re in the age old dilemma of what to do…I’ve read Wiebkes brilliant guides and we’re just going to monitor him. He’s not facing the corner yet and is still coming out for a bit of food (he demolished a beetroot this morning but slept for ages afterwards) so I don’t think it’s quite at the PTS stage yet but I don’t think it’s too far away. Bills is a stressy worrier at the best of times so I’ve been talking to the vets over the phone or email rather than taking him there.
He’s my first pig with (known about / diagnosed) Lymphoma though and I just wanted to ask others that have also had to deal with this disease if the deterioration was quite sudden. He’s certainly gone downhill over the last 24hrs and even though we’ve increased the frusol again, I’m not sure that that’s going to make a huge difference this time.
Sorry for the waffle - if it’s too much to read then I suppose the short question is - with lymphoma is the sudden deterioration quite normal?
Many thanks

 

[Claire W]

I am very sorry for the diagnosis I’ve lost two piggies to lymphoma and it’s horrible

With Ena, she developed a lump in her armpit that the vet removed and sent off for testing. The results came back as lymphoma and we had to have her pts on the day of diagnosis as the wound from having the lump removed just would not heal due to the cancer and she ripped all her stitches out

Erika developed lumps in all her lymph nodes and dewlap and a fine needle biopsy came back as lymphoma She lived for two weeks post diagnosis as her lumps in her dewlap grew so big, she was struggling to breathe and we had no choice but to have her pts

My advise is to follow Billy’s lead and he will tell you when he’s had enough. But in answer to your question, yes, both Ena and Erika deteriorated quite quickly x

 

[Clare King]

I am very sorry for the diagnosis I’ve lost two piggies to lymphoma and it’s horrible

With Ena, she developed a lump in her armpit that the vet removed and sent off for testing. The results came back as lymphoma and we had to have her pts on the day of diagnosis as the wound from having the lump removed just would not heal due to the cancer and she ripped all her stitches out

Erika developed lumps in all her lymph nodes and dewlap and a fine needle biopsy came back as lymphoma She lived for two weeks post diagnosis as her lumps in her dewlap grew so big, she was struggling to breathe and we had no choice but to have her pts

My advise is to follow Billy’s lead and he will tell you when he’s had enough. But in answer to your question, yes, both Ena and Erika deteriorated quite quickly x

Thank you so very much, it’s just a truly rubbish situation. I completely agree with you, we’re definitely being guided by Billy’s appearance / activity / interest etc. I think he’s quite possibly in the same situation as Erika was. His desire to chew and swallow has definitely lessened, he will still swallow the Emeraid but I’m not going to sustain him on that when all other quality of life is no longer there as I know there’s no improvement for him.
Thank you again for your advice

 

[Wiebke]

Hello there folks, I’m a longtime reader but occasional poster but away from this forum know a number of you personally and foster for the potteries rescue. We’ve unfortunately got a 3yr old boar who was diagnosed with Lymphoma 2 1/2 weeks ago. He went off his food the weekend of the first May bank holiday so we went to the vets (Cheshire Pet) and saw Cristian who exactly Billy and felt all his lymph nodes up so did a fine needle aspiration that day and within 48hrs the results were back that strongly indicated that he had lymphoma. He started on prednisone and tramadol and had a good few days. He then started looking a bit ‘ruffled’ and his breathing became far more noticeable and shallow so on consultation with the vets then we started on a twice daily low dose of frusol. The difference was quite remarkable and for the last 10 days then he’s looked bright, active and happy. We had a check
up appt on Monday and Cristian was very happy with how he looked, he’d gained weight and his lungs and heart sounded clear. Due to this then Cristian suggested taking the Frusol down to once a day to minimise any extra stress on his kidneys which we did. Unfortunately, his breathing has slowly but surely deteriorated again to how it was 8-9 days ago so with vet guidance then we’ve upped the frusol again. His breathing is better but still ‘noticeable’ and he’s much quieter today and definitely not wanting to eat as much. He will still have 15mls of Emeraid though.
So…we’re in the age old dilemma of what to do…I’ve read Wiebkes brilliant guides and we’re just going to monitor him. He’s not facing the corner yet and is still coming out for a bit of food (he demolished a beetroot this morning but slept for ages afterwards) so I don’t think it’s quite at the PTS stage yet but I don’t think it’s too far away. Bills is a stressy worrier at the best of times so I’ve been talking to the vets over the phone or email rather than taking him there.
He’s my first pig with (known about / diagnosed) Lymphoma though and I just wanted to ask others that have also had to deal with this disease if the deterioration was quite sudden. He’s certainly gone downhill over the last 24hrs and even though we’ve increased the frusol again, I’m not sure that that’s going to make a huge difference this time.
Sorry for the waffle - if it’s too much to read then I suppose the short question is - with lymphoma is the sudden deterioration quite normal?
Many thanks

Hi and welcome back

HUGS

Lymphoma is one of the diagnoses none of us ever wants to have their piggy saddled with.

How quickly lymphoma progresses varies quite a bit; it depends on how far it has already spread, how aggressive the individual cancer is and how healthy/frail the piggy. We have had a number of cases where piggies have been passing away within just days or a fortnight of their diagnosis. Some that have been caught in very early stages and that are not the most aggressive can in some cases be prolonged for a few months at the most lucky. Like with any cancer, it is a bit of luck of the draw and nothing that you can control.

In the last stages it tends to speed up as the body defences are being overwhelmed, as any cancer does.
You can discuss with your vet whether a steroid injection may help him over the weekend but once you come to the sharp end, there is not a lot you can do apart from keeping him as comfy as possible, spoil him with his favourite titbits and spotting when the time has come, sadly. It's generally rather quite a bit of up and down in the last days, physically for Billy and emotionally for you before the end will come rather quickly, and no matter how much you brace for it, too soon and as a shock. All you can do is hang in there and ride the rollercoaster.

I wish I had nicer advice for you.

 

[Clare King]

Hi and welcome back

HUGS

Lymphoma is one of the diagnoses none of us ever wants to have their piggy saddled with.

How quickly lymphoma progresses varies quite a bit; it depends on how far it has already spread, how aggressive the individual cancer is and how healthy/frail the piggy. We have had a number of cases where piggies have been passing away within just days or a fortnight of their diagnosis. Some that have been caught in very early stages and that are not the most aggressive can in some cases be prolonged for a few months at the most lucky. Like with any cancer, it is a bit of luck of the draw and nothing that you can control.

In the last stages it tends to speed up as the body defences are being overwhelmed, as any cancer does.
You can discuss with your vet whether a steroid injection may help him over the weekend but once you come to the sharp end, there is not a lot you can do apart from keeping him as comfy as possible, spoil him with his favourite titbits and spotting when the time has come, sadly. It's generally rather quite a bit of up and down in the last days, physically for Billy and emotionally for you before the end will come rather quickly, and no matter how much you brace for it, too soon and as a shock. All you can do is hang in there and ride the rollercoaster.

I wish I had nicer advice for you.

Thank you Wiebke, having read a number of the Lymphoma threads on here then I know exactly what you mean and in the nicest way was expecting exactly the advice you’ve given. I think we are quite probably in the overwhelming stage, he’s currently on daily prednisone but that seems to be losing its effectiveness against the lymphoma now unfortunately. We’ll keep monitoring him closely and offering him his fave bits and see how the next days / hours progress.
Thank you again for the knowledgeable guides, they help so much.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you Wiebke, having read a number of the Lymphoma threads on here then I know exactly what you mean and in the nicest way was expecting exactly the advice you’ve given. I think we are quite probably in the overwhelming stage, he’s currently on daily prednisone but that seems to be losing its effectiveness against the lymphoma now unfortunately. We’ll keep monitoring him closely and offering him his fave bits and see how the next days / hours progress.
Thank you again for the knowledgeable guides, they help so much.

You may find this guide here helpful, which I have written specifically for end of life situations, which come with so much pain, doubt and fear and heart-breaking decisions to make them help easier to navigate. It's not a link I like to parse into a thread but it can make a difference, especially for an owner who has never come up against all the end of life/dying heartaches and worries; and of course the actual loss. This guide here attempts to help talk owners through it all on a very practical how-to basis. The most difficult time is often when you come closer to the end and you start worrying about it and when the right time has come to call it a day. Usually, you'll know when your piggy has lost their zest for life but it is not an easy time in the run up.
Here is the link: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

 

[Clare King]

You may find this guide here helpful, which I have written specifically for end of life situations, which come with so much pain, doubt and fear and hear-breaking decisions to make them help easier to navigate. It's not a link I like to parse into a thread but it can make a difference, especially for an owner who has never come up against all the end of life/dying heartaches and worries; and of course the actual loss. This guide here attempts to help talk owners through it all on a very practical how-to basis. Here is the link: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

Thank you

 

[VickiA]

Nothing to add @Clare King other than that I know how you love these souls. It’s the toughest part of keeping piggies - knowing when to continue and when to stop. I’ve always just known when that day has come as the piggies themselves have told me. I’m sure that Billy will tell you. Much love x

 

[Merab]

So sorry to hear this news @Clare King .
Holding you in my thoughts

 

[eileen]

I'm sorry for your sad news.i had 3 piggies with Lyphoma.Carlton went 18months from diagnosis to succumbing to the disease.ive had a girl piggie,that the lumps got bigger over 24 hours and had to PTS.Recently Thomas had lymphoma diagnosis,unfortunately died 10days later.all seem to get worse for 24 hours before passing .it depends how aggressive the disease is,but its never pleasant .sending my support.xx

 

[Viennese Furbabies]

I have lost 2 piggies with lymphoma and in both the swellings of the lymph nodes especially in the throat grew big really fast. Both piggies ate without problems, but their overall condition deteriorated quickly.
In both cases there were about 2 weeks between diagnosis and pts.

I'm really sorry!

 

[Clare King]

Thank you all so much for your advice, your stories of dealing with this awful disease and good wishes. Billy is still with us, he’s been sleeping a lot but still ate a good amount of breakfast and tea. I’ve put some dried dandelion in too which is his favourite and he’s had a nibble of that too. We’ll definitely be keeping a very close eye on him and taking it day by day

 

[Claire W]

He's gorgeous. Bless him x

 

[Wiebke]

Fingers crossed for your little sweetie.

 

[Clare King]

Hello there, I just wanted to update / complete Billy’s story and thank you all once again for letting ask for your experiences. Billy was pts this afternoon as he deteriorated rapidly today. When I went to bed last night then he was doing ok and had been eating and looking comfortable. Today though was a different story and it was the right time to make the call. I gave him his meds this morning to make him as comfortable as possible and to see whether they would have any effect on him but after 4 hours he hadn’t moved from the spot nor had eaten anything around him. His eyes were half closed and he genuinely looked exhausted. The vets were really good and they confirmed that he had fluid on his lungs as well as the lymphoma so it was the right time to make the decision for Billy. We had 3 weeks exactly post diagnosis and I like to hope we made those 3 weeks as comfortable as possible for him. He wasn’t a cuddly pig and frequently gave you the ‘paw of no’ on your finger / hand when he’d had enough attention but he coped well with the medication he needed.
Now I just need to find a new friend for Daisy (opinionated, squealy, Aby) and break it to the rest of the pigs that the daily orchard grass / botanical/ Timothy hay, dill and parsley are reverting to the normal schedule.
Thank you all again

 

[JJW&Pigs]

Hello there, I just wanted to update / complete Billy’s story and thank you all once again for letting ask for your experiences. Billy was pts this afternoon as he deteriorated rapidly today. When I went to bed last night then he was doing ok and had been eating and looking comfortable. Today though was a different story and it was the right time to make the call. I gave him his meds this morning to make him as comfortable as possible and to see whether they would have any effect on him but after 4 hours he hadn’t moved from the spot nor had eaten anything around him. His eyes were half closed and he genuinely looked exhausted. The vets were really good and they confirmed that he had fluid on his lungs as well as the lymphoma so it was the right time to make the decision for Billy. We had 3 weeks exactly post diagnosis and I like to hope we made those 3 weeks as comfortable as possible for him. He wasn’t a cuddly pig and frequently gave you the ‘paw of no’ on your finger / hand when he’d had enough attention but he coped well with the medication he needed.
Now I just need to find a new friend for Daisy (opinionated, squealy, Aby) and break it to the rest of the pigs that the daily orchard grass / botanical/ Timothy hay, dill and parsley are reverting to the normal schedule.
Thank you all again

I am so sorry. I know the feeling. I wish Billy safe passage across the rainbow bridge, may he live in endless joy of hay, dandelions, and poop.

RIP Billy

 

[Wiebke]

Hello there, I just wanted to update / complete Billy’s story and thank you all once again for letting ask for your experiences. Billy was pts this afternoon as he deteriorated rapidly today. When I went to bed last night then he was doing ok and had been eating and looking comfortable. Today though was a different story and it was the right time to make the call. I gave him his meds this morning to make him as comfortable as possible and to see whether they would have any effect on him but after 4 hours he hadn’t moved from the spot nor had eaten anything around him. His eyes were half closed and he genuinely looked exhausted. The vets were really good and they confirmed that he had fluid on his lungs as well as the lymphoma so it was the right time to make the decision for Billy. We had 3 weeks exactly post diagnosis and I like to hope we made those 3 weeks as comfortable as possible for him. He wasn’t a cuddly pig and frequently gave you the ‘paw of no’ on your finger / hand when he’d had enough attention but he coped well with the medication he needed.
Now I just need to find a new friend for Daisy (opinionated, squealy, Aby) and break it to the rest of the pigs that the daily orchard grass / botanical/ Timothy hay, dill and parsley are reverting to the normal schedule.
Thank you all again

BIG HUGS

I am very sorry that Billy's time has come on what we see as the most common span between lymphoma diagnosis and death on here; but glad that you have been able to make the best of the time you've had left with him. It really speed ups at the end and often happens very quickly.

Be sad but be also proud that you have been able to give him the best of care and a very happy life and that you have not failed Billy in any way.

Give Daisy and the rest of the band time to grieve; they do not feel any less deeply but the survival instinct kicks in much sooner than with us humans so they generally come out of it after a few days. As long as they are eating and drinking, it is kinder to give piggies this space. Daisy will have known that Billy was very ill; so she unlikely to pine acutely (which is thankfully rare, anyway).

Lots of practical tips and advice via this link here if you want it: Death, Dying, Terminal Illness; Human Grieving and Bereaved Companions: Information and Support for Owners and Their Children

Our recommended rescues list: Guinea Pig Forum recommended rescues
Rescues (Adoption and Dating), Shops, Breeders or Online? - What to consider when getting guinea pigs

 

[Clare King]

Thank you @Wiebke and @JJW&Pigs, your messages are much appreciated.

You’re absolutely right about Daisy, she was definitely aware that Billy was unwell and became positively timid around him which was a complete character change from her usual bull in china shop mode. Daisy may be a challenge to pair up but we will see, she and her sister came from TEAS when Billy was there recovering from a nasty abscess and @furryfriends (TEAS) said she had never known such overly dramatic (with ear shattering squeals) baby pigs!

Thank you again

 

[Claire W]

Aw I am so sorry that the time came to say goodbye to Billy You made absolutely the right decision for him and he new how much he was loved right up until the end (((hugs))) Sleep tight Billy xx All the best with finding Daisy a new friend x