Little Olive has been unwell for a few weeks.

[Hannah_xx]

Olive started showing signs of a bladder issue a few weeks ago, Doing ouchy toilet noises. I started her on a course of antibiotics and metacam as I can’t get an appointment until the 22nd March with my good vet. Not much improved over a week so I tried out another vet practice I hadn’t been to before, they were nice. But no Guinea pig experts. Couldn’t see or feel anything visibly wrong so sent us home to continue with the medication for a bit longer.
I ran out of baytril as I was using some that I had left over from Opal. The vets I went to is 45 minutes out of my way so I phoned my good vets to see if they would prescribe me some that Jon could collect as he works in that town. As they hadn’t seen Olive for this problem they didn’t think they could. I explained that Aaron (vet) might be okay with it as he’s prescribed it to us many times before and seen all my pigs etc. sure enough they phoned me back and Aaron was happy for me to get some baytril.
However I was suprised by the dosage, 0.4. Even for my heaviest pigs it’s only been 0.3.
And Olive only weighs around 700g. So I have been giving her 0.3. Do you think that’s okay?
I haven’t been able to phone them about it as it’s been the weekend and today is public holiday.
My next question is, how long should I keep her on antibiotics. From today she’s had a 2 week course.
She just squeaked while toileting now but I actually think she likely has sludge or stones rather than a UTI. However I did see red coloured wee a few days ago.
In saying all that she’s a little trooper. She’s still got a great appetite. And acting okay apart from when she needs the loo. She’s always been shy so it’s hard to tell sometimes whether she’s quieter than usual. She has lost a bit of weight though.
Should I keep her on the antibiotics and metacam for a few more days, or will it become harmful to her?
It’s awful that I can’t get her to my exotic vet until the 22nd (they are extremely busy) but there is no use going to the local ones again. We’re in county Victoria so most vets are just good with dogs and farm animals. And I’d rather not travel to Melbourne unless it’s an emergency.
Here she is a few days ago begging for food with Newton:

 

[piggieminder]

I can't comment on the meds but I am sending Olive bucket loads of healing vibes and hugs to you.

 

[Wheekallweek]

Best of luck to Olive. Hopefully she's feeling better soon!

 

[LuluThePiggy]

Get well soon little Olive

 

[lauryn1289]

I’m absolutely no use with meds and antibiotics I have no idea beyond basics but metacam doesn’t usually hurt as far as I know piggies tolerate it very well so some more days on it shouldn’t be harmful, but don’t take my word on that as gospel incase I’m totally wrong! Good luck Olive get well soon! xx

 

[Bill & Ted]

Can’t help with the meds but keep giving her the metacam, sending Olive loads of healing vibes. Hope whatever it is is quickly sorted x

 

[Wiebke]

Olive started showing signs of a bladder issue a few weeks ago, Doing ouchy toilet noises. I started her on a course of antibiotics and metacam as I can’t get an appointment until the 22nd March with my good vet. Not much improved over a week so I tried out another vet practice I hadn’t been to before, they were nice. But no Guinea pig experts. Couldn’t see or feel anything visibly wrong so sent us home to continue with the medication for a bit longer.
I ran out of baytril as I was using some that I had left over from Opal. The vets I went to is 45 minutes out of my way so I phoned my good vets to see if they would prescribe me some that Jon could collect as he works in that town. As they hadn’t seen Olive for this problem they didn’t think they could. I explained that Aaron (vet) might be okay with it as he’s prescribed it to us many times before and seen all my pigs etc. sure enough they phoned me back and Aaron was happy for me to get some baytril.
However I was suprised by the dosage, 0.4. Even for my heaviest pigs it’s only been 0.3.
And Olive only weighs around 700g. So I have been giving her 0.3. Do you think that’s okay?
I haven’t been able to phone them about it as it’s been the weekend and today is public holiday.
My next question is, how long should I keep her on antibiotics. From today she’s had a 2 week course.
She just squeaked while toileting now but I actually think she likely has sludge or stones rather than a UTI. However I did see red coloured wee a few days ago.
In saying all that she’s a little trooper. She’s still got a great appetite. And acting okay apart from when she needs the loo. She’s always been shy so it’s hard to tell sometimes whether she’s quieter than usual. She has lost a bit of weight though.
Should I keep her on the antibiotics and metacam for a few more days, or will it become harmful to her?
It’s awful that I can’t get her to my exotic vet until the 22nd (they are extremely busy) but there is no use going to the local ones again. We’re in county Victoria so most vets are just good with dogs and farm animals. And I’d rather not travel to Melbourne unless it’s an emergency.
Here she is a few days ago begging for food with Newton:
View attachment 221081

Hi

With bladder issues, the dosage of antibiotics is always maxed out. With baytril, it lies around 0.5 ml per kilo of body weight; we've seen it prescribed occasionally on here.

If three weeks of baytril don't do the trick, then the next step is to x-ray or scan for stones or sludge and lastly test for sterile IC (no or low bacterial count in the urine but no sludge or stones). Keep in mind that symptoms are all very similar. Stones and sludge can cause a bacterial cystitis through scratching the bladder walls but the scratching can also result in bleeding.

Vets always start with the easiest thing to cure and then work their way up to the more difficult to diagnose and treat unless they have a strong indication for stones. Did any of the vets feel the bladder as to whether it was soft and large or hard and pulled up?

 

[VickiA]

Hope that Olive is soon on the mend.

 

[Roselina]

Hope lovely Olive gets better asap

 

[Merab]

Hope Olive makes a speedy recovery

 

[Hannah_xx]

Hi

With bladder issues, the dosage of antibiotics is always maxed out. With baytril, it lies around 0.5 ml per kilo of body weight; we've seen it prescribed occasionally on here.

If three weeks of baytril don't do the trick, then the next step is to x-ray or scan for stones or sludge and lastly test for sterile IC (no or low bacterial count in the urine but no sludge or stones). Keep in mind that symptoms are all very similar. Stones and sludge can cause a bacterial cystitis through scratching the bladder walls but the scratching can also result in bleeding.

Vets always start with the easiest thing to cure and then work their way up to the more difficult to diagnose and treat unless they have a strong indication for stones. Did any of the vets feel the bladder as to whether it was soft and large or hard and pulled up?

The vet did feel her bladder but couldn’t feel anything abnormal. She will be seeing the exotic vet on the 22nd who will be able to diagnose better. I recon she probably will need an X-ray, however Olive has a heart murmur so I’m unsure whether I’d/the vet would want to risk putting Olive under anaesthesia. So I’m really hoping it’s just a stubborn UTI that will clear up with antibiotics. But I have a feeling it is sludge or stones.
Thanks. I think will continue the baytril for another 2 days and then continue the metacam until the weekend.

 

[Fluffbabies]

Wishing Olive a speedy recovery and sending lots of healing loving vibes. xx

 

[Wiebke]

The vet did feel her bladder but couldn’t feel anything abnormal. She will be seeing the exotic vet on the 22nd who will be able to diagnose better. I recon she probably will need an X-ray, however Olive has a heart murmur so I’m unsure whether I’d/the vet would want to risk putting Olive under anaesthesia. So I’m really hoping it’s just a stubborn UTI that will clear up with antibiotics. But I have a feeling it is sludge or stones.
Thanks. I think will continue the baytril for another 2 days and then continue the metacam until the weekend.

A vet would be able to palpitate a stone or a build up of sludge in the bladder. While it is not a conclusive test, it gives them a bit of an idea of what could be going on and how badly affected the bladder is. A larger stone can be felt in a palpitation.

However, an underlying heart problem can lower the immune system.

Fingers crossed for her!

 

[Hannah_xx]

A vet would be able to palpitate a stone or a build up of sludge in the bladder. While it is not a conclusive test, it gives them a bit of an idea of what could be going on and how badly affected the bladder is. A larger stone can be felt in a palpitation.

However, an underlying heart problem can lower the immune system.

Fingers crossed for her!

Thanks Wiebke.
She’s doing really well and not showing much sign of pain or illness at the moment, so fingers crossed.
She’s very special (as they all are!) as Olive is the last of my first piggies here in Australia, from 2019 when I rescued her and her sister Opal. The smallest of all my piggies but the biggest will to march forward

 

[Free Ranger]

My experience has been that if antibiotics are going to work you will see a distinct improvement in the first couple of days - certainly by day 3. Now there's a chance that any 'old' Baytril that you might have started her on from a previous pig had gone off a bit (although it does keep pretty well) but if you've been on new stuff for 2 or 3 days and seen no change then either you're looking at a UTI that is resistant to Baytril (quite possible) or it's not a UTI. You've described her as actually being OK in herself when she's not toileting - was she like that to start with? If so that would point me more towards a non-bacterial issue. Bacterial infection causes local inflammation and also a general feeling of being unwell and run down as it puts the whole system under stress. Does she have a wet or stained rear end? Or is she pretty much dry...

I think in your shoes I'd be keen for an x-ray but that's because my vet will do a conscious one by swaddling piggy tightly in a towel. I've seen some x-rays on here where piggy was just sat still in a little box. Any chance you could contact the vet in advance to ask about conscious alternatives?

I was heartbroken last October when I realised George had a stone but it's been a learning curve for us and right now he's doing fine day on day. He's been on metacam for 2 years and is OK with that. He beat a UTI which actually gave him much worse symptoms than the stone!

Fingers crossed for you Olive x

 

[Hannah_xx]

My experience has been that if antibiotics are going to work you will see a distinct improvement in the first couple of days - certainly by day 3. Now there's a chance that any 'old' Baytril that you might have started her on from a previous pig had gone off a bit (although it does keep pretty well) but if you've been on new stuff for 2 or 3 days and seen no change then either you're looking at a UTI that is resistant to Baytril (quite possible) or it's not a UTI. You've described her as actually being OK in herself when she's not toileting - was she like that to start with? If so that would point me more towards a non-bacterial issue. Bacterial infection causes local inflammation and also a general feeling of being unwell and run down as it puts the whole system under stress. Does she have a wet or stained rear end? Or is she pretty much dry...

I think in your shoes I'd be keen for an x-ray but that's because my vet will do a conscious one by swaddling piggy tightly in a towel. I've seen some x-rays on here where piggy was just sat still in a little box. Any chance you could contact the vet in advance to ask about conscious alternatives?

I was heartbroken last October when I realised George had a stone but it's been a learning curve for us and right now he's doing fine day on day. He's been on metacam for 2 years and is OK with that. He beat a UTI which actually gave him much worse symptoms than the stone!

Fingers crossed for you Olive x

Thank you so much for your reply!
I was actually thinking that about the antibiotics I first had her on, that they were perhaps not ‘fresh’ enough and perhaps lost they effective-ness. That’s why I was keen to get new antibiotics from the vet, and I actually do feel I have seen a significant improvement in her in the 3-4 days that she’s had the fresh stuff. She’s not sitting around buried in the hay so much, she’s actually mooching around eating more hay. Looking a bit happier. Though I don’t want to speak too soon..
Thanks for your information on the bacterial and non-bacterial issues. She’s always been such a shy, quiet yet stubborn little pig that’s it’s often hard to tell if she’s quieter than usual or not. She doesn’t have a stained back end, I check every day and it’s always pretty clean. She’s been doing rather small poops for a long time (perhaps 8 months or more), which is odd. I think I mentioned this to the vet once or twice, they didn’t seem concerned as her guts seem to be working fine and she still poops loads!
Fingers crossed my vet will be happy to do a conscious x-ray! I’d worry too much with her heart murmur, around 5 years old and only a tiny 700 grams.
Sorry to hear George has been unwell with similar issues, so glad to hear he is doing well day to day!

 

[Free Ranger]

I take it Olive is an older piggy? I know that you can get age-related weight loss...
@Wiebke perhaps you can put a link in here at some point to your feature on that (I'm not sure where to find it!)

 

[Hannah_xx]

I take it Olive is an older piggy? I know that you can get age-related weight loss...
@Wiebke perhaps you can put a link in here at some point to your feature on that (I'm not sure where to find it!)

She’s roughly around 5 years old, she’s never weighed much more than 800grams due to her neglected past, she was only feed carrots for her first few months of life. And what ever seeds the birds in her cage dropped.

I’ve actually just weighed her this minute. She’s 768grams. I weighed her 3 days ago and she was 694..but now I’m wondering if I read the 6 wrong and it was actually 7, or perhaps the scales were out? As anywhere between 770-820 is normal for her! Which is why I was worried she’d suddenly lost weight since being poorly.
She doesn’t feel like she is bloated or has a mass or anything to gain almost 100grams in 3 days. So it must have been my error I recon!


Here she is seeing if I have treats tonight,

 

[Wiebke]

She’s roughly around 5 years old, she’s never weighed much more than 800grams due to her neglected past, she was only feed carrots for her first few months of life. And what ever seeds the birds in her cage dropped.

I’ve actually just weighed her this minute. She’s 768grams. I weighed her 3 days ago and she was 694..but now I’m wondering if I read the 6 wrong and it was actually 7, or perhaps the scales were out? As anywhere between 770-820 is normal for her! Which is why I was worried she’d suddenly lost weight since being poorly.
She doesn’t feel like she is bloated or has a mass or anything to gain almost 100grams in 3 days. So it must have been my error I recon!


Here she is seeing if I have treats tonight,
View attachment 221100

If you have concerns with the numbers on the scale, feel around the ribs if she is underweight or normal. If she has had a sudden dip/recovery, then whatever has caused it was only very temporary.

Older and frail piggies can sometimes have what I call stumbles as their body/organs stops working smoothly. It can sometimes be very difficult to work out what is the cause.

Our Oldies Care collection can be found at the top of our Daily Care and Travel section. Here is the direct link: Caring for Older Piggies and Facing the End - A practical and supportive information collection

 

[Free Ranger]

Oh she's a darling! And she's looking better than I am for her years!