Lennie and Timmy had a fight

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It has been brewing for a couple of days but early this morning they were squaring up to eachother, teeth chattering from Lennie and Timmy was attacking him. This went on for a 15 minutes or so and I have now reluctantly separated them before blood was drawn as I am sure it would have been. Timmy is a little over 3 months old, so a teenager in guinea pig terms. Is there any hope do you think? It now means I have to build a top floor on the c + c as I dont have enough space to go sideways. I am sad about this as floor time will have to be reduced for each one. They used to be so happy together and it was cute to see Timmy following Lennie everywhere and copying him :'( My OH is now on his way to B & Q to hopefully find some cubes, Timmy is in their cage and Lennie is under the couch and wont come to me :(
 
Hmm, have you thought of getting them neuted? Well obviouly Timmy can't be neuted yet but when he's 6months you could get him done.

And if you get them neuted and they still fight you could have separate cage/c&c or hutch for them and give them a girlie friend.
 
They could still possibly have their floor time together and be fine and maybe get over their brawl and live in hormany again ( for a while)
I found when I had my 2 boars separate but beside each other they tended to try get to each other through the bars.
 
The fight carried on when they came out of their cage this morning during floor time. Timmy was chasing Lennie (who is really placid) then Lennie turned and squared up to Timmy, teeth chattering and Timmy pounced on him. So floor time may be out. I will try floor time later this evening and see what happens but don't hold out much hope :-\
 
Neutering doesn't really affect their behaviour. It does in other animals but not so much with pigs. It only prevents pregnancy, so unless you were going to get girls for them then I wouldn't recommend neutering.
I went through this with my first two pigs. They were fine for a few months and then they suddenly decided they didn't like each other any more. I tried loads of stuff to get them to live together again but they never went back to their original state. They lve separately now and one of them has a new piggy friend and I'm looking for a baby boar for Gus.
 
gus and jack said:
Neutering doesn't really affect their behaviour. It does in other animals but not so much with pigs. It only prevents pregnancy, so unless you were going to get girls for them then I wouldn't recommend neutering.
I went through this with my first two pigs. They were fine for a few months and then they suddenly decided they didn't like each other any more. I tried loads of stuff to get them to live together again but they never went back to their original state. They lve separately now and one of them has a new piggy friend and I'm looking for a baby boar for Gus.
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neutering certainly hasnt stopped JD from trying to impress the ladeez ::)
 
No, I wasn't considering neutering at all. I know it does not change their behaviour anyway. I have 2 other boars also so I can't neuter them all and get loads of sows as wives! My plan is to build another c + c on top of the existing one. The existing one is split down the middle and had Lennie and Timmy on one side and Teddy and Larry on the other, so another floor, put Teddy and Larry in that one and try Lennie and Timmy with twice the space, a hidey house each etc downstairs. If that doesn't work, then I will have to split it down the middle and they have one side each with separate floor time. It is just dividing up the floor time fairly that will be tricky ::)
 
Yea You'll just have to wait and see what happens. Maybe they will get along for floor time. Just my luck that my two didn't, floor time was where all the problems started! ::) 98)
 
Well I left Timmy in the cage for several hours and Lennie has been as good as gold staying in the sitting room. I put a makeshift litter tray down for him and he has used it! What a clever boy :)Anyway, I let Timmy out again a short while ago and the same thing happened, so he is now back in the cage but hiding under the vetbed ::) My OH couldn't get the cubes as B & Q didn't have them so not sure what to do tonight. Leave Lennie out I suppose as he is happy snoozing under the sofa. We will go to the B & Q warehouse further away tomorrow. Can't think what else to do?
 
my boys are a little like what you said in your first post the chatter teeth, chase each other around and corner each other attempt to fight and squel at each other, but ive not sepearated them, i think its brotherly love lol they have never bit each other or anything and normally i go over and take their minds of it by giving them a treat or just opening the cage door n they both forget about it have a treat and go to sleep, or munch on hay.
 
Mmmm, but Timmy actually attacked Lennie this morning and I don't want to wait till blood is drawn. It would have been if Lennie hadn't jumped away :(
 
Having been through myself I think you have done the right thing in this situation, though in most cases I would advise people avoid separating them unless blood has been drawn or severe bullying. Because of the age of the Timmy (as you rightly say a teenager) and because you say they have come very close to full on battling, your best hope for them to live together happily long term could well be to wait a little while until Timmy is a little older and try reintroduce them. How old is Lenny by the way?

It sounds to me like Timmy with the following etc is pushing the boundaries to see if he can challenge Lenny as top pig. But Lenny is having none of it and attacking him to assert himself. Now if you left them together they might have sorted it out but they might also have not been able to settle it without drawing blood, especially if you feel they were actually fighting rather than just mounting etc... and then it would be too late to ever try again.

What is important is to keep them familiar with each other while separated, ideally with a side by side C&C set up which allows maximum interaction through the bars. Depending on Lenny's age you could wait a few months until Timmy is out of his most difficult stage and reintroduce. When you do this it will need to be as if they were strangers, even if they have been side by side. So starting with lap cuddles etc and taking it slow. Expect some of the usual behaviour associated with establishing the pecking order/ dominance, mounting, chasing and bottom sniffing but hopefully this will settle down and they will then rediscover their friendship. I think they have a good chance because you have intervened in time... I never got any warning with the pair of mine where the teenage pig fought with the boar. First i knew was a ball of fur rolling around and a bloody ear on one pig and a cut paw on the other! Nightmare!

All the best

Susie :)
 
Thank you Susie, yes that makes sense. Lennie is 9 months now. He was introduced to Timmy when he was 6 months and Timmy was 6 weeks. It went pretty well until now. There had been some mounting, rumbling etc, but I left them to it. Today was quite scary though and I didn't want to chance any injuries and as I know their characters well, I felt it would have come to that. I will do the side by side thing. How long before Timmy "grows up" do you think? Also, I feel that Timmy is rather mad! He is the sort of piggie that is into everything, whereas Lennie is a really chilled out dude. In reality, keeping them as a pair may never work. Poor Lennie has put up with a lot already :(
 
Very similar to my pigs age etc that did this then. I think it generally works best when there is a big age difference or at least one pig is more than a year old. I would probably wait until Lenny is a year old, when timmy will be 6 months ish... then give it another try.
 
Thanks a million for all your advice everyone. I am quite upset by this, although I knew it could happen. Perhaps Lennie would have been better off as a lone piggie as that was what he had been used to. Boys eh? ?
 
Oh gosh that must have been aweful. How are they? Hope they are good :'(Poor piggies but it sounds funny jumping on each other but i know it could be serious :)
 
I have had to separate them :'(poor Timmy is on his own in the hutch now because even in the cage next to Teddy and Larry, he was winding them up so much that they started on eachother. I am pulling my hair out and just don`t know what to do :( It is so quiet and relaxed now with Lennie in his cage and Teddy and Larry in theirs and poor Timmy is all alone but it was like world war 3 in here earlier :'( :'(I may have to get him neutered when he is old enough and get him a female, but they would have to live in my bedroom then :-\
 
Not all boars (or even sows) want to live together. I have given up pairing young boars with older ones because of the amount of times its gone wrong, but everyone has their own views and opinions on this. I have a castrated boar and 4 sows in a pen next to a cage with 2 boars in, I often do. It seems to be the boars that aren't used to having sows around that get 'angry' with each other, but even then they soon settle. :)
 
Aww poor piggies. Why dont you turn seans room into a piggy room :D You sould get more piggies and see what he is like with them ^-^
 
karenrgpr said:
Not all boars (or even sows) want to live together. I have given up pairing young boars with older ones because of the amount of times its gone wrong, but everyone has their own views and opinions on this. I have a castrated boar and 4 sows in a pen next to a cage with 2 boars in, I often do. It seems to be the boars that aren't used to having sows around that get 'angry' with each other, but even then they soon settle. :)
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So Karen, do you think it could be an option to get Timmy neutered and get a sow for him to live with? I thought that wouldn't work well as the other 3 boys would smell her and start fighting. How old before I can get Timmy neutered? He is 31/2 months old now :-\
 
lavenderjade said:
karenrgpr said:
Not all boars (or even sows) want to live together. I have given up pairing young boars with older ones because of the amount of times its gone wrong, but everyone has their own views and opinions on this. I have a castrated boar and 4 sows in a pen next to a cage with 2 boars in, I often do. It seems to be the boars that aren't used to having sows around that get 'angry' with each other, but even then they soon settle. :)
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So Karen, do you think it could be an option to get Timmy neutered and get a sow for him to live with? I thought that wouldn't work well as the other 3 boys would smell her and start fighting. How old before I can get Timmy neutered? He is 31/2 months old now :-\
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You could get them both neuted and give them a girlfriend, this way neither of them will be lonely :)
 
;D ;D ;DI will end up with a guinea pig farm at this rate! My neighbour has just popped in as they knew about Lennie and Timmy fighting and said they would take Timmy, get him neutered and get a girlfriend for him. I said I would think about it. I don't want to part with him, but he would be just next door so I could still visit. I do love him and his extremely loud wheerk welcoming me when I get home, so I don't know.... :-\
 
You cant get rid of your piggy. Even though it would just be next door it is still your piggy. Please dont get rid of him :'(
 
There's no guarantees with boars so it would be wrong of me to say it'll all be OK with the others :-\ I think you have to think of your little boy and whats best for him- not you, even though it may not be what you want. What would you do if it did upset the others? If you do decide to castrate pleeeeeeease let him choose his new friend, not all boars and sows get on- though most will.

So, castration is an option if you can cope with the fallout afterwards if it goes wrong. Will cages go underneath each other? There shouldn't be any problems then, what would the set up be?
And do find a guinea competent vet, they are around :) Ours go by 500gms and healthy rather than age. Though it depends on the vet, there are other factors to consider.
 
karenrgpr said:
There's no guarantees with boars so it would be wrong of me to say it'll all be OK with the others :-\ I think you have to think of your little boy and whats best for him- not you, even though it may not be what you want. What would you do if it did upset the others? If you do decide to castrate pleeeeeeease let him choose his new friend, not all boars and sows get on- though most will.

So, castration is an option if you can cope with the fallout afterwards if it goes wrong. Will cages go underneath each other? There shouldn't be any problems then, what would the set up be?
And do find a guinea competent vet, they are around :) Ours go by 500gms and healthy rather than age. Though it depends on the vet, there are other factors to consider.
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We are going to make a c + c on top of the other cage and put Timmy in that. It will be 5 ft by 2 1/2 ft. I am hoping that way, he can't really smell the others and can't see them. I will see how that goes before considering neutering him and getting a sow. As you rightly say Karen, can I cope with the fallout if it goes wrong? In truth, no as I really do not have any more space at the moment. So, I will consider my options carefully. I am considering what is best for Timmy. He has been with us since 6 weeks of age and is a great character and I am loath to give up at the first hurdle and rehome him. There has to be a solution. I appreciate your comments and advice Karen and will take them on board. ;)
 
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