Last couple days? Are we doing right by her?

[Fluffbabies]

Hi all,

Long time no see. I don't think I've posted since with lost Ginger and Leia both ages 4 to cancer two years ago. It's been too painful. Looks like we're going through it again now with Nugget. She's seen our local vet and Kim at Northlands several times lately but I'm reaching out for advice and support from fellow piggy owners.
We think Nugget is about five years old. In January I started noticing she was coming out less and being more hesitant to move but we had just put a big cardboard house in there so it wasn't obvious at first. One day we put her back in the cage after a full set up and she couldn't walk. We thought she had had a stroke or seizure. She was rocking back and forth and stumbling. She settled in a corner looking ill. The next morning we took her up to Kim fearing the worst. Kim told us she had arthritis and less control of her limbs especially her back legs were splaying out. Kim reassured us she had hidden it so well from us she had shown no signs. Started 0.4ml Loxicom twice a day and told to give it a week to work and see how she was. About 4 days later she was like a new pig. Walking fast up on her toes. We were so happy and she seemed so well even though she had lost some weight. Kim said as she is less mobile she has lost some muscle mass. Nugget was always 1200g and a big chunky pig, she was now 1000g. Kim was very happy with her health for her age.

About a month later we noticed some very pale pink/peach coloured urine from her but she did show any signs so we kept an eye on her. On 2nd March I thought she was raising her bottom to wee but nothing was coming out. She looked more hunched and like she was rocking very subtly back and forth by a few mm. I feared urinary issue so rushed her to the local vet who diagnosed her with cystitis and prescribed Baytril 0.75ml once a day and 1/3 Cystpro capsule once a day. The local vet advised us to give her a chance and try not to worry because she was very well for her age. Nugget now weighed about 930g.

Nugget seemed okay for a few days then a couple of days ago I noticed she wasn't eating her nuggets (which she loves) and we hadn't seen her drink water. We had weighed her daily and she had dropped 50g overnight to 888g. I thought it might be the antibiotics, even though the local vet said not to worry about probiotics or critical care. I started giving her poo soup and syringe fed her only a few ml of nugget mush as she didn't want it. As she kept her weight at 884 I didn't want to force her too much as she looked worse like I was making her feel bad.

The next day we took her to Kim again. Nugget was showing interest in hay but eating only a little. Kim checked her over and said her arthritis was worse in one poor and her spine. In January she only had pain in the base of her spine which Loxicom had managed but now it was along her whole spine and she probably wasn't drinking from her bottle or the nugget bowl because it would hurt her neck. Kim told us to stop the Baytril and added 0.1ml gabapentin to go with the Loxicom and to keep give the cyst pro. Kim noticed her kidneys were enlarged, couldn't feel stones in her bladder and she wasn't indicating pain in her kidneys so Kim thought she might have stones in the urethra. Kim said a scan would give us a more of an idea of severity and prognosis but we didn't want to risk the anaesthesia as the treatment wouldn't change as Nugget couldn't go through surgery due to frailty. We came home happy and with hope in our hearts. We held her bottle low to her mouth and she drank from it and ate nuggets from the floor.

Then this morning I noticed Nugget won't come out of her tunnel. She won't touch the water we offer or the nuggets. We did a fresh cage, she laid in the hay but ate only a tiny bit. She grabbed her medication like normal. We had family down but after lunch I came home and I noticed still didn't want anything and hadn't moved. I lifted the tunnel and saw more pink urine with some blood in it. Then she went to walk and was unstable and stumbling. It shocked me because she was walking up on her toes and jumping onto the 1inch thick bed pads last night. I took her out and syringe fed her 5ml of nugget mush and 3.5ml of water. She didn't want me to put it in her mouth but chewed it down okay and seemed to like the bit of water. I didn't want to hurt her spine because she kept bending her head up as she didn't want me to put it in her mouth. Her eyes looked tired as she was eating and I noticed her eyes seemed dimmer today.

I had to go to the shops and bought her her favourite salad/herbs. I phoned Kim to ask if I keep syringe feeding to see if she perks up or if this is the end I don't want to make it worse for her trying to syringe feed. Kim advised to try syringe feeding and see how she is doing over next couple of days. I got back and checked on her about 2 hours later. I lifted the tunnel and there was quite a lot of bright red blood and Nugget's walking was worse. Nugget wouldn't take any water but I didn't push her because she looked like she wanted to be left alone and she only stumbled away to get away from me. I broke down. I tried to call Kim but they were shut so I called the local vet to ask if the blood meant she was in pain and if this is the end. The vet hasn't met Nugget and was reluctant to give a verdict without seeing her but said it didn't sound good and sounds like she has stones somewhere causing the blood. He said the treatment would be a scan and surgery. I said we wouldn't put her through that. He said we should take her to a vet to be looked to see how much pain she is in but we decided against it as there doesn't seem to be anything they can do for her and with her spine we didn't want to put her in a bumpy car ride again to be fussed about again and cause her more pain. She has her cage mates snuggled up to her and she's in the warm. He said to just try to get her pain relief into her.

So I don't know if this is the end? If she is peeing bright red blood I suppose the stones are stuck and causing her pain and bleeding? And there isn't anything they can do for her? She doesn't want her pain relief tonight which is another huge red flag cos she loves the taste of the Loxicom. She has sniffed the hay and the water bottle we held low for her but didn't take any. I had to hold her quite firmly to give her her Loxicom and gabapentin and I didn't want to cause her more pain. Towards the end of the dose she held her mouth open and a bit dribbled down her chin. I gave her a mix of parsley, basil and cucumber and she ate a little bit very slowly. She's staying in her tunnel except she did walk across the enclosure to the other tunnel for a bit, ate a tiny bit more, now she's moved back to her favourite one.

We just don't know what to do and the vets haven't been able to tell us either and of course now it's Saturday night and Sunday. She only has interest in a tiny bit of herbs and sniff the water bottle. I could try syringe feeding her a little water and maybe nugget mush but if this is the end am I causing more suffering by making her take something she's fighting against? Then am I prolonging the end? Or should we try in case this isn't because she has that tiny bit of interest and if we don't we haven't supported her?

If it is the end should we take her to be PTS or is it better for her to pass with her cage mates around her comforting her and in the warm. With Ginger we thought she was suffering when she was passing and rushed out in the cold and she died in the car. The vet said her soul had already passed at home and it was just her body taking time to shut down. But it saddens me to think we took her away from her cage mates into a cold car and a scary journey.

We just so desperately want to do right for her so she isn't suffering!

I'm kind of in the mind of try to get her pain relief into her and let nature run it's course and if she is still with us Monday to take her to be PTS.

If you read all that or even some of it I thank you from the bottom of my heart. We're heart broken, again.

 

[Fluffbabies]

In my profile photo, Nugget is on the left. Next to her is Leia and Ginger is furthest on the right. Oreo turned six last month and is managing her arthritis pretty well. Nugget and Oreo are inseparable. They're laying next to each other as I type. They're always laying next to each other. After Leia and Ginger (her cage mates since birth) passed, Oreo was depressed and wouldn't even come out to be with Nugget (a rescue about a year or so later), which made Nugget depressed. To save them both we adopted four babies who are how 1.5 years themselves. I really hope they are enough to keep Oreo with us when Nugget passes. As we're learning you never know what's brewing under the service, especially when they hide it.

 

[Swissgreys]

I am so sorry you are going through this, and honestly it sounds like you have really gone above and beyond to do everything possible for precious Nugget.
I am not an expert, but it does sound like she may be nearing the end.

Personally the only thing I would 'push' right now is the pain meds, whilst continuing to offer water and syringe feeding, but not insisting if she doesn't show any interest.
In my limited experience once they are letting food dribble out of their mouth and not making the effort to spit it out or swallow they are usually near the end.

The pain relief means she shouldn't be suffering, and it is clear she has good piggy friends around her.
I think your decision to leave her as she is until Monday is probabably the right one.
Remember that you know your piggy best, and any decision made with love is never a bad one.

Wishing you both strength and peace.

 

[piggieminder]

I am so sorry, sending you my very best wishes.

 

[Fluffbabies]

I am so sorry you are going through this, and honestly it sounds like you have really gone above and beyond to do everything possible for precious Nugget.
I am not an expert, but it does sound like she may be nearing the end.

Personally the only thing I would 'push' right now is the pain meds, whilst continuing to offer water and syringe feeding, but not insisting if she doesn't show any interest.
In my limited experience once they are letting food dribble out of their mouth and not making the effort to spit it out or swallow they are usually near the end.

The pain relief means she shouldn't be suffering, and it is clear she has good piggy friends around her.
I think your decision to leave her as she is until Monday is probabably the right one.
Remember that you know your piggy best, and any decision made with love is never a bad one.

Wishing you both strength and peace.

I wish I could love/heart your reply. Thank you for the support and kind words.

Earlier when I she took some water and nugget mush at lunch time, I needed to struggle with her a bit to get the syringe in her mouth but then she would chew it. At tea time, she used all her energy to fight me and stumble away from me. When I gave her her pain relief at 20.30hrs she did everything she could to fight against me putting the syringe in her mouth and seemed really sad that I was making her have it. She took most of it then stopped chewing and just held her mouth open til it dribbled out.

It's the part of me that is conflicted between but I haven't been syringe feeding her so she's shutting down because I haven't been being firm with her vs. not wanting to hurt her if there's nothing we can do about the stones, am I increasing her suffering when she wants to just lay still.

It's different to when Ginger was a few months and had an op and stopped eating, I was gentle but firm because I knew she just needed to get her appetite back. If I know Nugget is on her way over the rainbow bridge, I don't want to make her last days miserable. I want her to be peaceful. Or would giving her a bit of water and food make it more comfortable? I don't know how long it would take though. I don't want it to be slow or painful if she's not having any intake and waiting for her body to fail. That's why I'm thinking if she's here on Monday I'll take her with her two friends as company for the trip to the vet, hoping she won't be scared.

When I asked Kim what to look out for she said the only next signs are when she's not interested in food at all and she's withdrawn from the world around her and not interacting with it anymore. I feel she's withdrawn. Except for eating slow few mouthfuls of her favourite herbs/romaine, she isn't active. She gave Oreo some eye kisses and that's about it.

 

[Deleted member 151640]

I don’t have any insight or advice unfortunately but i wish both you and her the best.
You seem like such a courageous and caring person, nugget and her friends are lucky to have you.
Sounds like you’re doing the best for her and i know she feels so loved and cared for.

Keeping you all in my thoughts x

 

[Wheekallweek]

I'm so sorry, she knows you love her, that's the main thing

 

[Fluffbabies]

I don’t have any insight or advice unfortunately but i wish both you and her the best.
You seem like such a courageous and caring person, nugget and her friends are lucky to have you.
Sounds like you’re doing the best for her and i know she feels so loved and cared for.

Keeping you all in my thoughts x

I hope she knows how much we love her and that we're trying to do best by her! When she struggles against me and the syringe and she turns towards me to hide that's when I wonder if what I am doing is having any benefit or is just causing her suffering. It's probably the only time I wish they could talk lol so she could tell me if she wants help and if she is thirsty or if she has had enough and wants help to pass over the bridge.

 

[Qualcast&Flymo]

it does sound like Nugget is nearing the end.
I was in exactly the same position as you 4 weeks ago. My 6 year old sow Winifred had arthritis then bumblefoot then a UTI too, then on the Saturday morning she was refusing food etc. I also debated whether to go to the vet for help or pts, but decided to keep her at home with her husboar unless she was still alive on the Monday. I brought them into my sitting room and sat with them into the early hours, expecting her to pass any moment, but she must have died some time after I eventually went to bed...

It's good that your other piggies are snuggling up to Nugget to comfort her. I'm sure she knows you love and care for her too. Sending you both hugs at this difficult time

 

[Fluffbabies]

it does sound like Nugget is nearing the end.
I was in exactly the same position as you 4 weeks ago. My 6 year old sow Winifred had arthritis then bumblefoot then a UTI too, then on the Saturday morning she was refusing food etc. I also debated whether to go to the vet for help or pts, but decided to keep her at home with her husboar unless she was still alive on the Monday. I brought them into my sitting room and sat with them into the early hours, expecting her to pass any moment, but she must have died some time after I eventually went to bed...

It's good that your other piggies are snuggling up to Nugget to comfort her. I'm sure she knows you love and care for her too. Sending you both hugs at this difficult time

We also felt that them snuggling up to her so much was a red flag. They can be quite soppy but we've found since she's stopped eating that she's in the tunnel and she'll have one on either side of her in there almost like they're protecting her.

We're too exhausted to stay up much longer with her. And I'm so emotionally drained I'm not sure I want to try syringe feeding her. I don't want to sound selfish but I know we have our limits too. It's hard to see her struggling. We think she'll probably go when we're not here.

She just stumbled out her tunnel. Sniffed the shallow water bowl then 'walked' into the grass house. Her walking is so much worse. It's more stumbling and limping just trying to get somewhere. I'm guessing it's a combination of being uncomfortable and weak from not eating/drinking. I hope the pain medication is enough that she's not suffering I was going to try and give her a little syringe of water before I go to bed but I just don't know what's best :'(

I am worried she won't be here in the morning and it'll be the first time we find one passed away. But also maybe that would be better that she's not suffering anymore. And our grief grief as opposed to all this anticipatory tried will start.

 

[Fluffbabies]

it does sound like Nugget is nearing the end.
I was in exactly the same position as you 4 weeks ago. My 6 year old sow Winifred had arthritis then bumblefoot then a UTI too, then on the Saturday morning she was refusing food etc. I also debated whether to go to the vet for help or pts, but decided to keep her at home with her husboar unless she was still alive on the Monday. I brought them into my sitting room and sat with them into the early hours, expecting her to pass any moment, but she must have died some time after I eventually went to bed...

It's good that your other piggies are snuggling up to Nugget to comfort her. I'm sure she knows you love and care for her too. Sending you both hugs at this difficult time

I'm so sorry for your loss of Winifred. It's so hard. Sending love and hugs xx

 

[Fluffbabies]

My boyfriend just got her out the cage and put her on a soft bed she likes with a couple of cucumber slices. She's laying, taking little bites of the middle of the cucumber (odd technique? lol) and very slowly having some nibbles. This made us smile but she only had a few bites then turned away. You can tell she's not right. She's trying to get comfortable just laying flat. We're going to give her some strokes and say our goodbyes and put her back in the cage for the night. Hoping this is the best we can do for her.

 

[Siikibam]

I’m so sorry to hear your girl is so unwell. Please do bear in mind that you need to look after yourself as well. Wishing you all the best and sending lots of hugs.

 

[Qualcast&Flymo]

We also felt that them snuggling up to her so much was a red flag. They can be quite soppy but we've found since she's stopped eating that she's in the tunnel and she'll have one on either side of her in there almost like they're protecting her.

We're too exhausted to stay up much longer with her. And I'm so emotionally drained I'm not sure I want to try syringe feeding her. I don't want to sound selfish but I know we have our limits too. It's hard to see her struggling. We think she'll probably go when we're not here.

She just stumbled out her tunnel. Sniffed the shallow water bowl then 'walked' into the grass house. Her walking is so much worse. It's more stumbling and limping just trying to get somewhere. I'm guessing it's a combination of being uncomfortable and weak from not eating/drinking. I hope the pain medication is enough that she's not suffering I was going to try and give her a little syringe of water before I go to bed but I just don't know what's best :'(

I am worried she won't be here in the morning and it'll be the first time we find one passed away. But also maybe that would be better that she's not suffering anymore. And our grief grief as opposed to all this anticipatory tried will start.

My boyfriend just got her out the cage and put her on a soft bed she likes with a couple of cucumber slices. She's laying, taking little bites of the middle of the cucumber (odd technique? lol) and very slowly having some nibbles. This made us smile but she only had a few bites then turned away. You can tell she's not right. She's trying to get comfortable just laying flat. We're going to give her some strokes and say our goodbyes and put her back in the cage for the night. Hoping this is the best we can do for her.

Yes piggies often seem to know and want to comfort an ill companion, unless/until the ill one removes itself from the group. And dying pigs also do often seem to wait until the humans aren't there to finally pass. I waited with Winifred until I felt so tired I thought it was unsafe. But unlike your Nuggett she hardly moved all day and all she ate was a little watery syringe food.

You've done all you realistically can. I worried about W suffering too, but a vet told me once that once they are at the point where the body starts shutting down, they are mostly "out of it" and not suffering as such.

 

[Fluffbabies]

After my last message and Nugget had eaten some bites of cucumber, Nugget laid down against my hand. I noticed her breathing get shallow and slow and her eyes gradually closing. She went completely still except for tensing up for a second every 10 seconds. I don't think she has passed any poos in a couple of days and I'm not sure she is peeing since seeing the blood. I thought she was passing right then so I stayed with her gently talking to her. After about 10 minutes I realised maybe she wasn't, maybe my hand was warm and comfy and put her back with her cage mates.

As soon as we put her in the cage last night, Oreo went in the tunnel and curled up with her. When Oreo came out the tunnel, Cookie went over and licked Nugget's eyes. Knowing they were looking after her gave us some comfort enough to fall asleep. It's 3am now and I came to check if Nugget had passed. She's still with us. She's in the same tunnel with Cookie lying next to her this time.

While the babies have been lying with her and kissing her, we notice they aren't always gentle with her. Sometimes they squeeze past her in the tunnel and she can't move out the way so they bump her around or run over her.

Every time I think she hasn't moved at all maybe she's passed, she moves a tiny bit. She can just about turn herself around in the tunnel. She went to come out but then changed her mind/couldn't. I think she is trying to pass urine/poop but can't as she looks like she is straining often. And her intake has been extremely little now.

When I managed to syringe feed her at back tea time, she started eating the kitchen roll I was using to clean her mouth. I just read that some pigs shred things when in discomfort so maybe that's what that was. Maybe she's only eating leaves/cucumber because she is stressed/in discomfort and it's all she can eat?

What would you do?

It will cost us close to £200 just to get in to an out of hours vet on a Sunday, then they want to check her with a consultation fee before considering PTS, then cost of PTS and cremation. Around £300. We will spend almost anything on our piggies to prevent them suffering but it's so much and I don't know if it's better for her to be in her warm cage with her friends. I don't want her to be scared taking her out to the vet.

Part of me was hoping she had passed so I know she isn't suffering. Nugget doesn't want to take anything by syringe. I will try and get her pain relief into her when it's due at 8am and offer her wet salad/cucumber. Maybe having a little bit of cucumber gave her some relief from dry mouth/dehydration? And put a clean bed pad under her.

I guess we know she isn't going to get better and she may still in discomfort even with her pain relief? Are we being cruel if we do not take her to be PTS today? She can't be happy and another 24 hours is a long time for her to be like this?

Some may differ in opinion. I know my mum having lots of domestic animals and having worked with livestock on a farm is of the opinion nothing can be done except a huge vet bill, let nature take it's course. But I don't want her to be miserable :'(

I am still doubting myself that I have not been syringe feeding her so maybe it's my fault she's like this. Maybe if I noticed a couple of days earlier and starting syringe feeding her she would pull through this. But then again, I know she cannot have surgery because of her overall condition because Kim said we wouldn't operate on her cystic ovaries late last year due to her overall condition. So I know we can't make this better. And I remember when Ginger was few hours from the end, I tried to give her more pain relief but she didn't want it and she wanted to be left alone. So I don't want to stress Nugget out by trying to give her anything she is not willing to have. And if she isn't chewing the syringe then she won't be swallowing anymore right?

I'm so tired and upset. I can't even cry anymore I just feel physically ill to my core. I feel like I've given up on her and not supported her. Either I haven't syringe fed her or I haven't taken her to be PTS and I've left her to deteriorate until her body shuts down.

 

[Fluffbabies]

I just re-read Wiebke's 'practical and sensitive guide to dying'. I've read it many times over the past few years but isn't it crazy how you forget what you know when you're in that moment and so concerned to make the best decisions for your loved one.

Nugget has been showing us over the past 24 hours that she has had enough. Although she has no energy to move, she gives all the energy she has not to have the syringe near her and to be left alone. And when she didn't want her pain relief last night it's another clear sign. Likely she cannot process it anymore. If she is still with us at 8am I will try gently but if it causes her distress I will leave her alone.

I think we've done everything on the 'what can I do for a dying guinea pig' list. And it adds to my opinion that her cage mates are saying their goodbyes. The mood in the cage is very sombre. A couple are laying next to her and the others are far away.

Wiebke says "A good way of avoiding to fall into the trap of keeping a piggy going past the time they are ready to leave themself is to support feed them only from a bowl or with a spoon. The moment they are no longer interested in their food is the time to let them make their way to the Rainbow Bridge." I think I wasn't sure because if she is showing some interest in sniffing food or eating small amounts of veggies then she's still interested right? But her instinct to sniff water or try to eat salad doesn't mean her body can process it anymore.

It's clear that we're trying to look after a piggy that won't recover.

She just walked out the tunnel for first time in hours extremely shaky, took a few steps like she was on a tightrope rocking all over the place then did a 180 and crawled back into the tunnel. Cookie let her out to do that and then followed her back in and flopped next to her again. I gently picked her up and swapped out the bed pad and she's settled on the new one.

She isn't showing signs of being in distress or major pain. She is laying quietly in the tunnel and gently repositioning herself but there is chance that she has a stone blocking something and she isn't making noise. She's always been quiet and good at hiding things. Or she has stopped peeing and pooing due to having very little intake. But she's not happy so when my partner is up we will talk about going to out of hours for PTS.

Her cage mates are falling out and look really sad. One of them is rumbling and humping the others.

 

[Fluffbabies]

Update: I've spoken to the OOH vet who recommended we take her in to PTS. They said it could take a long time for her body to shut down naturally, meanwhile she's waiting and her casemates are waiting for it to happen too.

I appreciate this forum so much to have a place to write about these tough times.

 

[Fluffbabies]

My partner couldn't sleep so got her out on his lap and gave her a slice of cucumber. She has very slowly eaten it. She's laying flat, chewing for a very long time and having breaks but she wants to eat it. She took 0.1ml of loxicom that I gently put into her mouth when she opened it to bite the cucumber. She's eaten the first slice and is chewing on a second. She looks really tired and has a break then eventually she grabs it for another little bite and her eyes are a bit brighter. She isn't able to stand up unless she really wants to stumble away.

 

[weepweeps]

Sending you massive hugs at this difficult time. You really have done all you can.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

So sorry you are going through this, but you are clearly doing everything possible to keep Nugget comfortable. Running a sanctuary like TEAS, I deal with end of life a lot and I always take the view that if they're calm and peaceful, it is better for them to pass at home, with their little friends around them. However, I will always take for euthanasia if they are becoming distressed. I was only discussing this with Simon last week and he said he feels it is better for them to pass at home, if they are calm and peaceful. Will keep you and Nugget in my thoughts xx

 

[Fluffbabies]

I've put a few basil leaves, bits of parsley and a wet bit of romaine in front of her. She has a few bites, rests, few bites, rests. Her eyes are quite bright when she's eating. I think she is falling asleep in between. She's peed and its pink, not straight blood. I managed to give her the other 0.3ml of loxicom so at least she's got some pain relief in her. She didn't want the syringe and just held her mouth open like the face Oreo made when she tried pineapple once! But she chewed it down.

She's had a some parsley and basil. She's fallen asleep for longer having eaten. She's asleep on his lap. Our thinking is she wouldn't eat if she didn't want to. She didn't show any signs of pain when she peed which is really good. It came out easily. That's not to say she hasn't got pain although the vet yesterday said she didn't show signs of pain from her kidneys or bladder.

 

[Fluffbabies]

So sorry you are going through this, but you are clearly doing everything possible to keep Nugget comfortable. Running a sanctuary like TEAS, I deal with end of life a lot and I always take the view that if they're calm and peaceful, it is better for them to pass at home, with their little friends around them. However, I will always take for euthanasia if they are becoming distressed. I was only discussing this with Simon last week and he said he feels it is better for them to pass at home, if they are calm and peaceful. Will keep you and Nugget in my thoughts xx

Thank you for your message. It really helps to know what more experienced owners find best.

Nugget in herself is calm and peaceful. She's still asleep. She's on a very soft pet bed and we've covered her body loosely in a fleece blanket. If she starts nibbling again and I can get her gabapentin into her it might keep her more comfortable.

The issue we are having now is possibly her cage mates. She has five cage mates. Oreo who is 6 and very docile, and four 1.5 year olds. Effie one of the 1.5 year olds is taking it upon her to rumble and mount the other young ones very vigorously so the cage isn't peaceful. I found they would chase each other through the tunnel Nugget was in which probably hurt her. I'm not sure if I separate a bit of the cage for her or her and Oreo.. but the young ones have been laying next to her too and I think they would get very sad if they can't lay next to her or check on her. Maybe instead of the tunnel we put her in the corner and put a droopy blanket over the corner so she still feels protected but hopefully they won't run into her?

The OOH vet recommended we take her in for pts asap because they thought it would be long and drawn out waiting for her organs to shut down and that the others were reacting to this?

Can I ask what you would do in our situation with how Nugget is versus the cage?

 

[Fluffbabies]

So sorry you are going through this, but you are clearly doing everything possible to keep Nugget comfortable. Running a sanctuary like TEAS, I deal with end of life a lot and I always take the view that if they're calm and peaceful, it is better for them to pass at home, with their little friends around them. However, I will always take for euthanasia if they are becoming distressed. I was only discussing this with Simon last week and he said he feels it is better for them to pass at home, if they are calm and peaceful. Will keep you and Nugget in my thoughts xx

Also I think it's amazing what you do. I always wanted to run a rescue or sanctuary but I don't feel strong enough to go through so much of this.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

Thank you for your message. It really helps to know what more experienced owners find best.

Nugget in herself is calm and peaceful. She's still asleep. She's on a very soft pet bed and we've covered her body loosely in a fleece blanket. If she starts nibbling again and I can get her gabapentin into her it might keep her more comfortable.

The issue we are having now is possibly her cage mates. She has five cage mates. Oreo who is 6 and very docile, and four 1.5 year olds. Effie one of the 1.5 year olds is taking it upon her to rumble and mount the other young ones very vigorously so the cage isn't peaceful. I found they would chase each other through the tunnel Nugget was in which probably hurt her. I'm not sure if I separate a bit of the cage for her or her and Oreo.. but the young ones have been laying next to her too and I think they would get very sad if they can't lay next to her or check on her. Maybe instead of the tunnel we put her in the corner and put a droopy blanket over the corner so she still feels protected but hopefully they won't run into her?

The OOH vet recommended we take her in for pts asap because they thought it would be long and drawn out waiting for her organs to shut down and that the others were reacting to this?

Can I ask what you would do in our situation with how Nugget is versus the cage?

As long as the others aren't knocking into her and distressing her, I would leave things as they are. You are doing right keeping her in her little bed. Just keep her to one end of the cage, so the others have the choice of sitting by her, or they can still run around the cage, without bothering her. It can take a while for them to pass, but I honestly think staying calm at home, in familiar surroundings, with their friends around them, is the best way. I used to always rush them straight to vets, but have had piggies, who were calm at home, starting to fit, in their carrier, as I have driven them to vets, with no way of being able to stop to help them, as I have been on a dual carriageway. I would monitor for now, but if she is peaceful, it seems a nicer way to pass xx

 

[Fluffbabies]

As long as the others aren't knocking into her and distressing her, I would leave things as they are. You are doing right keeping her in her little bed. Just keep her to one end of the cage, so the others have the choice of sitting by her, or they can still run around the cage, without bothering her. It can take a while for them to pass, but I honestly think staying calm at home, in familiar surroundings, with their friends around them, is the best way. I used to always rush them straight to vets, but have had piggies, who were calm at home, starting to fit, in their carrier, as I have driven them to vets, with no way of being able to stop to help them, as I have been on a dual carriageway. I would monitor for now, but if she is peaceful, it seems a nicer way to pass xx

We've just put her back in. She's noticeably weaker and not using her front legs now. Cookie the biggest young one saw her and jumped onto her *eye roll*. She loves Nugget but has never realised that she's 1300g and Nugget is now 880g she can't lay on her! She's been glued to Nugget's side since we got her as a baby. She's very caring but quite boisterous. I don't think she realised she's not a tiny baby anymore and this is what I'm worried about that she will keep bumping into Nugget or hurting her.

After this rude awakening Nugget tried to move under her tunnel instead of under the droopy blanket. She was practically pushing her face along the floor. So I've moved the tunnel to the end of the cage. The young ones have all gone up to see how she is and lick her. They tend to take it in turns to go back and look at her. Cookie's now lying beside her in the tunnel again. I'm hoping she's going to be gentle. Poor Oreo has stopped lying next to her since last night and is in the other far end. I'm guessing she's said her goodbyes/starting her grieving.

I think we're going to try and get a bit of sleep and leave them to it. We will check on her again later. If she shows signs of distress or pain we'll take her to vet.

 

[Fluffbabies]

As long as the others aren't knocking into her and distressing her, I would leave things as they are. You are doing right keeping her in her little bed. Just keep her to one end of the cage, so the others have the choice of sitting by her, or they can still run around the cage, without bothering her. It can take a while for them to pass, but I honestly think staying calm at home, in familiar surroundings, with their friends around them, is the best way. I used to always rush them straight to vets, but have had piggies, who were calm at home, starting to fit, in their carrier, as I have driven them to vets, with no way of being able to stop to help them, as I have been on a dual carriageway. I would monitor for now, but if she is peaceful, it seems a nicer way to pass xx

If we find they are bumping into her do you suggest taking her for pts or maybe putting a grid barrier around her so they can see her but they can't bump her? In the past when we tried this they chew the bars to get to the sick pig. So I don't know what option would be most peaceful for Nugget.

I'm really hoping Cookie climbing on her just now didn't hurt her more. She didn't make a sound or move.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I'm really hoping Cookie climbing on her just now didn't hurt her more. She didn't make a sound or move.

The fact she didn’t move would suggest she wasn’t hurt by it. I find a little cuddle cup type bed keeps them safe and warm and protected. It sounds like she’s very peaceful xx

 

[Fluffbabies]

The fact she didn’t move would suggest she wasn’t hurt by it. I find a little cuddle cup type bed keeps them safe and warm and protected. It sounds like she’s very peaceful xx

Thank you. I did a fresh cage for them all which has settled the young ones and they're either munching the fresh hay or sleeping themselves. I tried putting Nugget back on her bed in the corner but the others went over to see her so she pushed herself all the way to the other end of the cage and collapsed on the other pile of hay. Every now and then she tries to move but can't.

Just when I think she is not moving anymore or having any interest in salad now, she reacts a bit to a rustle and she just moved 20cm to go half way into a fleece tunnel to get away from the others. I'm hoping it will be quick and peaceful but do we keep waiting or could it take days? How long is too long to wait like this? Does there come a point that you think pts would be better?

May I ask how long some of your end of life piggies have taken to pass over the bridge and that were still better staying home?

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

It’s hard to know what you should do. Generally it’s only been a few hours, at the most. I do find the more stimulation they get, the longer it takes.

 

[Fluffbabies]

It's been about 12 hours since we thought she was going to go about 3 hours since she went off food completely.

Unfortunately it is quite a lively cage and the others have taken the outer spaces and corners so she's in a tunnel in the middle of the cage again. She got there herself.