LA Guinea Pig rescue taming techniques, thoughts?

[h.h.lovecraft]

I was watching Saskia from the LA Guinea Pig Rescue and she has quite a few videos on how to "tame" your guinea pig.

In this video, she talks about how to stop your guinea pig from jumping or wriggling out of your hands when you go to put them down. Her advice is to basically refuse to let them go until they calm down. You can tell the guinea pigs are stressed at first, but they do seem to realize everything is fine after a while because they do stop struggling.

In this other video, she shows how she tries to stop guinea pigs from running away when you go to pick them up. She basically removes their hidey, lets them run around the cage until they stop ( while chasing them with her hand), pets them, then repeats until they are calm enough to be picked up (Around the 5 min mark in the video if you want to see it)

I would recommend watching the videos in their entirety as they are interesting, but I wanted to know how everyone here felt about these techniques, as some of the stuff she does seems to clash with the general consensus on here. I suppose there are different approaches of how you can try to "tame" or bond with your piggy, whether that be with more laid back or more hands on techniques. Just wondering if any of you have found success with these techniques, or if you wouldn't recommend them, as well as any general thoughts on the subject. The things she does seem to work, but the piggies certainly look rather stressed out before they understand, so I'm not sure how I feel about it! I generally think that if a piggy really doesn't want to be touched, you shouldn't force it.

 

[Black piggies]

I've thought the same thing. There's more than one way of doing things, I prefer letting piggy choose if they want to be held and taming slowly. Happy to do a controlled grip and tell piggy I'm boss for syringe feeding etc.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi!

Personally, I am not quite happy about her approach for exactly the reason you mention. I prefer communication via piggy whispering and the indirect pick-up to give a piggy more control in the process and to tackle it from the piggy behaviour side rather than the human/dominance side; but like you say, there are different approaches.

Hers is one of the more effective and kinder ones compared to the usual hunts; it still works through the piggy submitting and at least initially via the 'playing uninteresting prey' instinct, though.

However, working past the prey animal instincts that cut very deep is never quite easy.

Once my piggies are settled in but refuse to come into the pick up, I just follow them around at their own speed (doing in effect a little piggy train) until they fetch up in a corner from which I pick them up - but again, this mimics natural travelling behaviour and the piggies know where they are going and are not stressed.

I do a control grip for medication and syringe feeding an uncooperative piggy (saving lives comes before political correctness) but I usually accompany it with lots of fussing, praise and plenty of piggy kisses.

For those members reading this, here are the links to the forum approach. Ours may not be quite as quick but on the other hand, it does work consequently from the piggy perspective up and not from the human perspective down. We are very much at one end of the whole spectrum.
Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips
How To Pick Up And Weigh Your Guinea Pigs Safely
Who is the boss - your guinea pig or you?

 

[weepweeps]

I’ve learnt something recently. Sometimes Percy wants to be picked up and sometimes he doesn’t. When he is being a naughty sausage I wait until he is in a corner and then I put my hands onto him and tickle both his ears at the same time. Then he lets me pick him up. It’s worked every time since I tried it. I’d be interested to see if it works for other piggies too.

 

[Wiebke]

I’ve learnt something recently. Sometimes Percy wants to be picked up and sometimes he doesn’t. When he is being a naughty sausage I wait until he is in a corner and then I put my hands onto him and tickle both his ears at the same time. Then he lets me pick him up. It’s worked every time since I tried it. I’d be interested to see if it works for other piggies too.

If you read my post, you will see that I use a similar trick with uncooperative customers. What you are adding is a gentle reminder that you are the boss with the ear tickling.

 

[VickiA]

I like l.a guinea pig rescue channel . I don't look at it much now . I've never been bothered about pigs wriggling to hit the ground running , like they do . But it could help people to stop dropping them when this happens .

I got talking to saskia once and apparently she was going to visit Cambridge UK to learn how to do dental work on guinea pigs.

Yet another reason why I tend to avoid their channel. DIY dentistry taught by rodentologists not vets represents everything that this forum is opposed to.

 

[Eriathwen]

I'm not keen on the technique personally. I tried it when I first got Pippin and Bailey and there was a very striking difference between them and how my other pigs acted, yes it worked, but it was more because they froze and were obviously defeated. It did not sit right with me at all so I went back to how I usually tame.
I prefer a slower approach, befriending rather than over bearing. I find a mixture of sitting and talking to them, having a number of already relaxed piggies in the room, and just keeping a gentle, calm energy really reduces their fear and stress. I have had pigs who are supposedly absolutely terrified (and to give their previous people credit, they don't really like anyone but me so they may have been right) become relaxed and happy on my lap days, sometimes hours after arriving in my care.

Saskia does a fantastic thing, her rescue is a very much needed, great resource. But I do not agree with some of the content she chooses to share. It doesn't matter how many times you say not to try something at home and to go to a vet, people who do not want to spend the money will do as they please. I have seen someone refuse to take a dental pig to the vet because they saw on YouTube how to clip their incisors themselves.. the issue wasn't the incisors, it was a molar issue. That poor animal died as a result. The general public doesn't need access to what can be used as instructional content to DIY minor surgical procedures imo.

Editing to add that it is extremely frustrating also this new brushing off head tilts as blindness. So many head tilt pigs have not seen a vet for correct diagnosis and treatment as a result.

But that's a bit of a tangent, apologies

 

[Canucks]

Being new to guinea pigs I feel like I must have watched just about every guinea pig tutorial video going in the last few weeks.
Saskia's were the only ones I gave up on part way through, it didn't feel right to me.

Not that I'm against all the LAGPR content, I've found Scotty quite nice to watch and I've learned things from his videos.

 

[h.h.lovecraft]

I like l.a guinea pig rescue channel . I don't look at it much now . I've never been bothered about pigs wriggling to hit the ground running , like they do . But it could help people to stop dropping them when this happens .

I got talking to saskia once and apparently she was going to visit Cambridge UK to learn how to do dental work on guinea pigs.

They seem like a great organization overall and do a lot of good for neglected piggies in the area. I'm rather new to the channel, I haven't seen many of their videos. I can understand the issues people have with them though, especially the DIY stuff, which I think is always rather questionable if you haven't seen a vet first.

 

[Featheryfriend]

Meeeeh, hmm. I did just skim, I've seen her before. Wasn't a huge fan but wasn't, like, boiling over either.

I'm pretty happy to just observe my piggies doing their own thing most of the time. But if you're really determined to try and make a more hands-on pet out of them I could see this possibly working, as long as you were mindful of not being cruel or over-stressing a delicate pig.

A principle from child development class comes to mind, consistency is very important. If the pig/child knows the drill they'll probably cope fine with any one of a range of different approaches, even if they are far from perfect.

Watching these kinda reminds me of watching someone parent in a drastically different way than my own family and friends would. In my head I'm always like... well THAT is not ideal but you seem to have a method, carry on I suppose.

 

[h.h.lovecraft]

I'm not keen on the technique personally. I tried it when I first got Pippin and Bailey and there was a very striking difference between them and how my other pigs acted, yes it worked, but it was more because they froze and were obviously defeated. It did not sit right with me at all so I went back to how I usually tame.
I prefer a slower approach, befriending rather than over bearing. I find a mixture of sitting and talking to them, having a number of already relaxed piggies in the room, and just keeping a gentle, calm energy really reduces their fear and stress. I have had pigs who are supposedly absolutely terrified (and to give their previous people credit, they don't really like anyone but me so they may have been right) become relaxed and happy on my lap days, sometimes hours after arriving in my care.

Saskia does a fantastic thing, her rescue is a very much needed, great resource. But I do not agree with some of the content she chooses to share. It doesn't matter how many times you say not to try something at home and to go to a vet, people who do not want to spend the money will do as they please. I have seen someone refuse to take a dental pig to the vet because they saw on YouTube how to clip their incisors themselves.. the issue wasn't the incisors, it was a molar issue. That poor animal died as a result. The general public doesn't need access to what can be used as instructional content to DIY minor surgical procedures imo.

Editing to add that it is extremely frustrating also this new brushing off head tilts as blindness. So many head tilt pigs have not seen a vet for correct diagnosis and treatment as a result.

But that's a bit of a tangent, apologies

Thank you for sharing your experience with it. I think you confirmed what I suspected, that this technique would more likely than not just traumatize the piggy into complying. What you said about sharing instructional DIY medical procedures to the public is spot on and I absolutely agree. I think the rescue is great and she seems like she would be very qualified to check a piggy over and let the owner know that they need to see a vet, but doing the actual procedure DIY style (and filming it for social media especially!) should always be discouraged.

 

[Featheryfriend]

Rats are the animal for hands on taming , they all enjoy it

Human children on the other hand vary widely as to whether they enjoy hands-on taming or not. Most of them can however learn a variety of tricks once you find the right method for them!

My godchild has lately been working on an advanced trick we call "don't eat your own boogers, no not even in secret."

Rats sound fun, always kinda wanted rats.

 

[Featheryfriend]

I've seen adults in traffic jams eating their own boogers .

OMG. We try to get that one mastered before kindergarten around here.

 

[PigglePuggle]

I've seen some of her stuff but quickly concluded its not for me. I think we watched a hair cut and nail trim video once but at some points she was scarily waving scissors round the piggies face while looking into the camera, most piggies would have lost an eye or jumped off the table at that point!
Very different style and aims to the relationship I want with my piggies, and the issue with things like that is they will choose the most immobile piggy and how many takes did they do to film it... a perfectly "tame" compliant piggy is usually scared senseless and will stay still and do what you want, a calm confident piggy who trusts you will do whatever they like and cause nibbly wriggly wheeky poopy chaos!
I dont really like the term "taming" at all, gaining an animal's trust and not scaring them is surely the aim while allowing them to feel comfortable expressing natural behaviours... even if that is trying to knaw off one of your fingers while you trim their nails lol!
I see Saskia does some good rescue work but I would take @Wiebke 's piggy whispering guide and @Betsy 's hair cutting guide as more true to life and piggy friendly than the 10 minutes I saw of Saskia

 

[Wiebke]

I'm not keen on the technique personally. I tried it when I first got Pippin and Bailey and there was a very striking difference between them and how my other pigs acted, yes it worked, but it was more because they froze and were obviously defeated. It did not sit right with me at all so I went back to how I usually tame.
I prefer a slower approach, befriending rather than over bearing. I find a mixture of sitting and talking to them, having a number of already relaxed piggies in the room, and just keeping a gentle, calm energy really reduces their fear and stress. I have had pigs who are supposedly absolutely terrified (and to give their previous people credit, they don't really like anyone but me so they may have been right) become relaxed and happy on my lap days, sometimes hours after arriving in my care.

Saskia does a fantastic thing, her rescue is a very much needed, great resource. But I do not agree with some of the content she chooses to share. It doesn't matter how many times you say not to try something at home and to go to a vet, people who do not want to spend the money will do as they please. I have seen someone refuse to take a dental pig to the vet because they saw on YouTube how to clip their incisors themselves.. the issue wasn't the incisors, it was a molar issue. That poor animal died as a result. The general public doesn't need access to what can be used as instructional content to DIY minor surgical procedures imo.

Editing to add that it is extremely frustrating also this new brushing off head tilts as blindness. So many head tilt pigs have not seen a vet for correct diagnosis and treatment as a result.

But that's a bit of a tangent, apologies

I agree on the same points; I have grave concerns about some of her home treatment approach, especially re. teeth and her head tilt/blindness link (head tilts can happen in blind piggies but untreated ear infections can and sadly do kill, as we have seen on here a few times over the years); and have worries how some of the care videos work out with timid owners - she really has the practice with handling literally thousands of piggies, but most home owners cannot necessarily get away with it all the way she does.

However, in all fairness, I can also see where Saskia is coming from because vet access in the USA and Canada is much more limited and expensive - and guinea pigs are typically a teenager's pet. There is a huge need (and one that she as resuer is confronted with on a daily basis) to somehow bridge that gap and at least give it a chance to save lives. The situation is definitely not the same as over here in the UK.
To her full credit, Saskia is currently working together with a vet to offer cheaper and more affordable guinea pig vet services very much as a pioneering enterprise. It would be wrong to just put her in the Rodentology Corner (although I am not happy that she continues to promote some of their more questionable practices). Saskia has a much wider approach and is a welfare pioneer with a world-wide reach that catches segments of the population our forum, for instance, is not able to. We cover another, different segment instead with our own supportive forum ethos and our own extensive in-depth information resource (via the Guinea Pig Guides shortcut on the top bar).

I would however like to point out that while there are some stronger or more minor disagreements on the 'how' that both LA GPR and our forum are very much working towards the same aim and that we have more in common than divides us.

From my job with Guinea Pig Magazine I know both Saskia and Scott and have done so for several years, predating their Youtube channel. Saskia is a very clever and business savvy force of nature and I hugely respect her for what she does and achieves for guinea pigs in the USA. She's put rescues on the map like nobody else.

PS: No doubt as we get contacted over concerns with their Youtube Channel, they get concerns and questions about our UK forum practises from time to time...

 

[h.h.lovecraft]

I've seen some of her stuff but quickly concluded its not for me. I think we watched a hair cut and nail trim video once but at some points she was scarily waving scissors round the piggies face while looking into the camera, most piggies would have lost an eye or jumped off the table at that point!
Very different style and aims to the relationship I want with my piggies, and the issue with things like that is they will choose the most immobile piggy and how many takes did they do to film it... a perfectly "tame" compliant piggy is usually scared senseless and will stay still and do what you want, a calm confident piggy who trusts you will do whatever they like and cause nibbly wriggly wheeky poopy chaos!
I dont really like the term "taming" at all, gaining an animal's trust and not scaring them is surely the aim while allowing them to feel comfortable expressing natural behaviours... even if that is trying to knaw off one of your fingers while you trim their nails lol!
I see Saskia does some good rescue work but I would take @Wiebke 's piggy whispering guide and @Betsy 's hair cutting guide as more true to life and piggy friendly than the 10 minutes I saw of Saskia

I really dislike the term "taming" too actually. It kind of felt wrong typing it out in my originally post. "Taming" an animal to my ears sounds as if you are ignoring the needs and feelings of whatever animal you are trying to befriend and just forcing human expectations on it.

 

[Eriathwen]

I agree on the same points; I have grave concerns about some of her home treatment approach, especially re. teeth and her head tilt/blindness link (head tilts can happen in blind piggies but untreated ear infections can and sadly do kill, as we have seen on here a few times over the years); and have worries how some of the care videos work out with timid owners - she has the practice with handling literally thousands of piggies, but most home owners cannot necessarily get away with it all the way she does.

However, in all fairness, I can also see where Saskia is coming from because vet access in the USA and Canada is much more limited and expensive - and guinea pigs are typically a teenager's pet. There is a huge need (and one that she as resuer is confronted with on a daily basis) to somehow bridge that gap and at least give it a chance to save lives. The situation is definitely not the same as over here in the UK.
To her full credit, Saskia is currently working together with a vet to offer cheaper and more affordable guinea pig vet services very much as a pioneering enterprise. It would be wrong to just put her in the Rodentology Corner (although I am not happy that she continues to promote some of their more questionable practices). Saskia has a much wider approach and is a welfare pioneer with a world-wide reach that catches segments of the population our forum, for instance, is not able to. We cover another, different segment instead with our own supportive forum ethos and our own extensive in-depth information resource.

I would however like to point out that while there are some stronger or more minor disagreements on the 'how' that both LA GPR and our forum are very much working towards the same aim and that we have more in common than divides us.

From my job with Guinea Pig Magazine I know both Saskia and Scott and have done so for several years, predating their Youtube channel. Saskia is a very clever and business savvy force of nature and I hugely respect her for what she does and achieves for guinea pigs in the USA. She's put rescues on the map like nobody else.

PS: No doubt as we get contacted over concerns with their Youtube Channel, they get concerns and questions about our UK forum practises from time to time...

Yes definitely, my blind piggy has no head tilt and my head tilt pigs have fairly unaffected vision but those vision issues they do have are due to their E.cuniculi rather than the tilt itself.

I find myself overly critical of Saskia purely because I do believe, although it may not sound like it that she is an absolute force for good and has the capacity to do so much to elevate the care standards for guinea pigs across the world. I have friends in the US and some of the prices I've seen for things, hundreds and hundreds of dollars for a surgery that would cost me less than £100 for example, a spay for ovarian cysts or even just xrays! Absolutely blows my mind.
I am sure she would be incredibly upset herself to know people were misusing her content and causing suffering to their animals. I had heard good things about her new concept regarding cheaper veterinary fees and I look forward to seeing what kind of breakthroughs in care they make over there.

 

[eileen]

i do believe on both sides of the atlantic we are trying to strive for the best life and welfare for guinea pigs with the current evidence based practise.

 

[VickiA]

I agree on the same points; I have grave concerns about some of her home treatment approach, especially re. teeth and her head tilt/blindness link (head tilts can happen in blind piggies but untreated ear infections can and sadly do kill, as we have seen on here a few times over the years); and have worries how some of the care videos work out with timid owners - she really has the practice with handling literally thousands of piggies, but most home owners cannot necessarily get away with it all the way she does.

However, in all fairness, I can also see where Saskia is coming from because vet access in the USA and Canada is much more limited and expensive - and guinea pigs are typically a teenager's pet. There is a huge need (and one that she as resuer is confronted with on a daily basis) to somehow bridge that gap and at least give it a chance to save lives. The situation is definitely not the same as over here in the UK.
To her full credit, Saskia is currently working together with a vet to offer cheaper and more affordable guinea pig vet services very much as a pioneering enterprise. It would be wrong to just put her in the Rodentology Corner (although I am not happy that she continues to promote some of their more questionable practices). Saskia has a much wider approach and is a welfare pioneer with a world-wide reach that catches segments of the population our forum, for instance, is not able to. We cover another, different segment instead with our own supportive forum ethos and our own extensive in-depth information resource.

I would however like to point out that while there are some stronger or more minor disagreements on the 'how' that both LA GPR and our forum are very much working towards the same aim and that we have more in common than divides us.

From my job with Guinea Pig Magazine I know both Saskia and Scott and have done so for several years, predating their Youtube channel. Saskia is a very clever and business savvy force of nature and I hugely respect her for what she does and achieves for guinea pigs in the USA. She's put rescues on the map like nobody else.

PS: No doubt as we get contacted over concerns with their Youtube Channel, they get concerns and questions about our UK forum practises from time to time...

Very well put @Wiebke.

 

[h.h.lovecraft]

I agree on the same points; I have grave concerns about some of her home treatment approach, especially re. teeth and her head tilt/blindness link (head tilts can happen in blind piggies but untreated ear infections can and sadly do kill, as we have seen on here a few times over the years); and have worries how some of the care videos work out with timid owners - she has the practice with handling literally thousands of piggies, but most home owners cannot necessarily get away with it all the way she does.

However, in all fairness, I can also see where Saskia is coming from because vet access in the USA and Canada is much more limited and expensive - and guinea pigs are typically a teenager's pet. There is a huge need (and one that she as resuer is confronted with on a daily basis) to somehow bridge that gap and at least give it a chance to save lives. The situation is definitely not the same as over here in the UK.
To her full credit, Saskia is currently working together with a vet to offer cheaper and more affordable guinea pig vet services very much as a pioneering enterprise. It would be wrong to just put her in the Rodentology Corner (although I am not happy that she continues to promote some of their more questionable practices). Saskia has a much wider approach and is a welfare pioneer with a world-wide reach that catches segments of the population our forum, for instance, is not able to. We cover another, different segment instead with our own supportive forum ethos and our own extensive in-depth information resource.

I would however like to point out that while there are some stronger or more minor disagreements on the 'how' that both LA GPR and our forum are very much working towards the same aim and that we have more in common than divides us.

From my job with Guinea Pig Magazine I know both Saskia and Scott and have done so for several years, predating their Youtube channel. Saskia is a very clever and business savvy force of nature and I hugely respect her for what she does and achieves for guinea pigs in the USA. She's put rescues on the map like nobody else.

PS: No doubt as we get contacted over concerns with their Youtube Channel, they get concerns and questions about our UK forum practises from time to time...

I have to apologize as I really didn't mean to stir the pot! I didn't expect such strong opinions of her or the actual organization, I was just curious about the handling techniques she used. Not trying to spread any negativity!

 

[VickiA]

I have to apologize as I really didn't mean to stir the pot! I didn't expect such strong opinions of her or the actual organization, I was just curious about the handling techniques she used. Not trying to spread any negativity!

Absolutely no need to apologise. Every now & then a topic will get posted and there will be a debate with a range of views. The beauty of this forum is that we will allow a healthy debate.

Our forum stance is to seek veterinary care for health issues whereas in the USA & Canada there are fewer cavy savvy vets & the fees are extortionate, so it helps to understand the background to both approaches to vet treatment.

 

[PigglePuggle]

No negativity at all dont worry, its good to openly discuss these things!
Having worked in a veterinary department of a university in the USA it is a very different approach from the UK regarding animal welfare and affordability of vet care, also just the role that the majority of people expect animals to play in their lives is often different to the UK.
Saskia perhaps reaches an audience demographic that we dont particularly have here in the UK, who cannot afford even basic veterinary care or would rarely even consider rodents as pets.
Certainly where I worked in Georgia in the South-East USA there were no rabbit or rodent vets at all- dogs, cats, livestock, horses, wildlife, reptiles, zoo animals... but not a single vet in a huge college of 500 vet experts treated rabbits or rodents as anything except lab animals or vermin, a very different culture to the UK and Europe!
So I see Saskia is quite pioneering promoting guinea pig rescue but... her methods dont really appeal to me personally!

 

[Wiebke]

I really dislike the term "taming" too actually. It kind of felt wrong typing it out in my originally post. "Taming" an animal to my ears sounds as if you are ignoring the needs and feelings of whatever animal you are trying to befriend and just forcing human expectations on it.

I fully agree. But compared to the general very human-centric US attitude to pets and the fact that guinea pigs come very much at the bottom end of the pet care queue, Saskia (who is from the Netherlands originally) is actually bringing a more European touch to it - but she is using the American lingo and practices that vibe with her target audiences. Considering that we are very much at the other end of the spectrum, it is not quite easy for us to appreciate the nuances and even her much more moderate approach can make you squirm at times.

I sincerely hope that through my articles in Guinea Pig Magazine about guinea pigs as a species and featuring the guinea pig perspective we can intersect with Saskia (who now has her own regular column in GPM) to work towards a new deeper understanding and appreciation of guinea pigs on a wider level.

 

[Wiebke]

PS: A healthy lively debate, as long as it is respectfully done, is not at all a bad thing. We do have a strong forum ethos but we are not colour-blind partisan; sadly this kind of fruitful debate has very much fallen victim to the social media echo chambers and trolling.
But it does help to highlight issues and to gain a deeper understanding about the complexity that underpins it all and about there being different ways. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion but it doesn't mean that we cannot reach a consensus across some divides and understand better what divides us and why - and how we can ultimately work together for a better future for guinea pigs.

No need to apologise!

 

[Black piggies]

I've had 2 new adoptees for less than a week, one extremely timid one who was freaking out and staring at the wall. I've been sitting by the cage quietly chatting to them, and today she's stopped running away and started taking food from my hand. Heart soaring moment We all do things differently, but that's how I like the piggy relationship to be.