It's All Gone A Bit Wrong :-(

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Swissgreys

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It's been a very fraught couple of hours, and I would really appreciate any help, advice or insight anyone can offer.
This is super long, so thank you in advance for anyone who takes the time to read it all.

Yesterday Ruby was in season - I rarely notice when any of the girls are in season, but yesterday was one of the rare noticeable ones.
Ruby is our ASBO pig - I have always felt she doesn't really like the other pigs particularly, and she is always the one who starts any disagreements.
She doesn't like humans either, and in all honesty DD1 is the only one who can handle her without getting bitten - for DD1 she is a total angel.
She is our only pig that never snuggles up with another, and can be quite pushy and snappy at the best of times.
But yesterday was strange - she was clearly in season and she let Lucy mount her. This is the first time this has ever happened. She has tolerated it from Eddi (briefly) in the past, but never from the other girls. But then Lucy is the only other pig she seem to tolerate in general.

So fast forward to today. It all kicked off in the cage big time - mad angry noises from everyone, and manic teeth chattering and puffing up from both Eddi and Ruby.

Ruby has done this before when Oreo was introduced, but Eddi has never behaved like this.
All the girls love Eddi, and he is in no way a dominant boar (at all).

So Ruby was really being angry and strutting about and nipping at the others, but she was really pushing it with Eddi. Barging up to him and acting very aggressively, and Eddi was backing off and chattering his teeth the whole time. I let it go on for a bit, because in between Ruby would go and lie down and relax, but it was clear that Eddi was very uneasy.
After about 20 minutes Ruby backed him into a corner and he flew at her - it was a full on fight with both of them airborne and lunging wildly at each other.

I was on standby with a towel, and managed to throw it over them and break up the fight before anyone was injured.
Ruby wandered off as though nothing had happened, and I spread copious amount of their favorite hay all over the cage as a distraction. All four settled down to munch, although Eddi was still clearly unsettled and nervous.
Ruby had a quick sleep (spread out, and in the open) and then woke up and started with the angry noises again.
Eddi started with the teeth chattering.
Lucy and Oreo kept out of the way.

Ruby kept eating and making a very angry noise, and suddenly it was almost like Eddi had had enough, and he went for her. More very aggressive lunging, leaping, and towel throwing commenced.
I broke up the fight, and immediately removed Eddi from the cage, as this clearly was not a minor spat.

I put Eddi in the run, and he huddled in the corner looking very sad and scared - he never behaves like this - but as soon as I put Oreo in with him he started happily pop-corning around with her, and the two of them are now cuddled up together in the worlds smallest bed.

Ruby and Lucy seems perfectly content in the C&C, and are behaving as if nothing ever happened.

Help.
Please.

I will keep them apart tonight so they have lots of space and a chance to calm down, but I am devastated at the thought of having to split the group.

My plan is to reintroduce everyone tomorrow in a very large and neutral area, and see how it goes.
If they are ok I will put them all back in the C&C (8 x 2 with a 2 x 1 loft).
I plan to remove the really scent marked fleece, but leave the main liner so the cage still smells of everyone.

Is this a good idea?

Is there any chance it will work, or should I plan to split them into 2 groups, and have them side by side in two 2 x 4 C&C's?

So gutted, although deep down I always knew that life with Ruby would never be straight forward. She is a funny little pig and we love her dearly, but right now I am also so sad for our easy going Eddi.

Next time I am getting fish......
 
Don't panic. Sounds to me like a strong season has caused an upset in the hierarchy and everyone is at sixes and sevens. Eddi was backed into a corner by an aggressive madam and he reacted as any boar would do. With sows and boar combination you can separate and reintroduce again and see how you go.

This bust up might not be the end of your herd. Mr Ted (sweetest gentlest soul) lived with Toffee and Mrs Fudge. The hierarchy was Mrs F, Mr T and then Toffee. One day Mrs F in a strong season wouldn't leave Mr T or Toffee alone. She backed Mr T into a corner and there was a fight I couldn't separate quickly enough and he punctured her face giving her a gaping wound. I kept her separate overnight. Next day, after a vet visit by Mrs F alone I did a short reintroduction on neutral ground and no major problems but both wary of each other. Over a few days we increased time they all spent together and they did move back in again. After the death of Toffee Mr T and Mrs F lived happily together as a couple.
 
@Swissgreys I'm sorry you have encountered this disruption to your herd.i think it is very wise to separate.it maybe worth getting Ruby checked at the vet,more aggressive sows in season can sometimes be due to ovarian cysts.is Eddie unwell?if he is sometimes top sow piggies can challenge neutered boar for leader of the herd.i had Jerry and Evie together both 2 years old at the time,Evie on one occasion started teeth clacking at Jerry ,within seconds they were locked in a round and round furball fight which Jerry ended up with a Injury to his Jaw,unfortunatley she could never go back to living with Jerry.she is a very stroppey sow,i had to rehome Evie due to her fighting with every neutered boar i had,she was checked for ovarian cysts but non were found.maybe try again to reintroduce on neutral ground,but if tensions are still raging you may have to rethink your options.it is devastating to see this when all has been well.:hug:s.
 
Let them calm down overnight and then do some formal intros on neutral ground once Ruby has settled down again and see how it goes. Tempers have obviously been fraying.

How old is Ruby? If she under 15 months, then it is just a hormonal spike; if she is over 18 months, then ovarian cysts can be in play. Some sows can be rather rubbing everybody the wrong way - but so can some humans...
 
Thank you so much for all of the replies.
I really do appreciate you taking the time to read the entire thread.

@Wiebke Ruby will be 1 year old on Saturday, so I think it is just her 'special' personality.
She has been a 'difficult' (maybe awkward is a better word) pig from the start if I am honest.
I am actually torn at this point in time. I will try reintroducing tomorrow, but deep down I truly believe that Ruby would be happier (and life would be easier) if I put her and Lucy in a separate cage, and made a new herd for Eddi and Oreo.
But I also think that then Lucy (sweet, laid back Lucy) would miss out on being with Eddi (who she adores) and also part of a larger group (which she loves).
It is so difficult to know what to do, but right now I am thinking if I can get all of them back together then this will be the best option.
I have also ordered a cage extension - maybe even more space will help?
 
Thank you so much for all of the replies.
I really do appreciate you taking the time to read the entire thread.

@Wiebke Ruby will be 1 year old on Saturday, so I think it is just her 'special' personality.
She has been a 'difficult' (maybe awkward is a better word) pig from the start if I am honest.
I am actually torn at this point in time. I will try reintroducing tomorrow, but deep down I truly believe that Ruby would be happier (and life would be easier) if I put her and Lucy in a separate cage, and made a new herd for Eddi and Oreo.
But I also think that then Lucy (sweet, laid back Lucy) would miss out on being with Eddi (who she adores) and also part of a larger group (which she loves).
It is so difficult to know what to do, but right now I am thinking if I can get all of them back together then this will be the best option.
I have also ordered a cage extension - maybe even more space will help?

Nothing to lose by trying them together again when they've all calmed down.
 
I am sorry to hear you are having an axious time with your herd. I have my fingers crossed for a happy reconcilliation.
 
Sorry to hear things are tricky. These piggies do find their way into your heart quickly. I hope your children are ok with it all.

Fingers crossed things calm down and you are able to rebond the herd.
 
Bad news I'm afraid.
I tried re bonding them today, and it did not go well.

I followed the bonding instructions to the letter, and for the first 30 minutes they were all quite happy stuffing their little faces with lots of hay and fresh veg.
At this point I was fairly optimistic that what we saw yesterday was an unfortunate one off.

But after that, for no reason whatsoever, Ruby started with her angry noise again.
Initially Eddi went into his peacemaker mode and was rumbling and trying to diffuse the situation, but Ruby got pushy with him, he started teeth chattering, and then they flew at each other.
Sigh.
Thankfully this time I knew it was coming and manage to intervene with a huge fleece blanket before anyone made contact, but at this point it was clearly not going to work, so everyone is back in their respective cages.
As soon as they were separated they all settled right back down - Eddi was pop corning, and Ruby and Lucy went to sleep.

My living room looks like a guinea pig ghetto.
Eddi and Oreo are in the floor time pen and Ruby and Lucy are in the C&C.

Tomorrow I will split the C&C so they can all go back into that, and at least Lucy can still interact with the others through the bars.
In the short term they will both end up with a 4 x 2, but longer term I have more grids coming, and hope to give them a bit more space.
I am just so upset that it hasn't worked out, and I still have no idea why Ruby has suddenly decided that she has an issue with Eddi.
Gutted :(
 
I am so sorry to hear that the bonding did not go well today and you now have 2 sets of separate pigs. I was hoping that they would all go back together for you today. Hope they stay happy in their pairs :)
 
So sorry. Your alternative living arrangements sound good, you did your best to get them to live in harmony, you can do no more. Sending you hugs. Hope everything works out well now.
 
I'm so sorry that it didn't work out, but at least you tried and you now know for certain. Having 2 pairs side by side in a split c and c is a great solution.
 
:( Sounds like Ruby is having one hell of a season and really pushing Eddi's buttons. Maybe if @Wiebke thinks this is a good idea try a rebonding in weeks time when your ' little madame' piggy will be out of season. Maybe that woudl work, until then I think as you have done in pairs is a good idea. Shame for Lucy and Oreo but they will be okay in pairs for sure if that is the way it has to be.
Sending love x x
 
Sorry to hear it didn't work. Hoping for smoother times ahead for you. Sounds like they are happy in their pairs and good you can have them side by side. Not surprised you are gutted though :(
 
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