It Is All Going Wrong With My Boars :(

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Toni D

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I have read the boar behaviour threads and am not sure whether I am at the point where I need to separate some of my boars. They are all in 4ft cages with separate sleeping, separate bowls, two tubes, etc. I am especially worried as I have just bought new 4ft hutches to move them to my pig shed and the thread says changes of accommodation may cause fallouts. For info I don't have any sows.
Pair 1 (4 months old). This behaviour has started recently so probably hormonal. Piggy A has always been full of character, noisy, upfront whilst Piggy B kept himself to himself (and tended to be bolshy with me rather than his cagemate). No rumbling strutting from either piggy, not much interaction between them. Now Piggy B has started suddenly lunging at Piggy A and has left bite marks on his rear and nose and pulled out fur. There is no warning or interaction beforehand. Piggy A is now a bit subdued but no weight loss.This pair is currently my major worry.
Pair 2 (5 months old). Again this behaviour is new. Piggy C was the more characterful, noisy and jolly piggy. Piggy D was just a bit less noisy but both seemed happy with each other. Piggy D is now chasing Piggy C around, bullying him and there have been minor scuffles and minor fights. I can't find any wounds but Piggy D keeps bullying Piggy C when Piggy C is resting in his igloo. Piggy C is teeth chattering and sometimes retaliating. Piggy C is definitely less happy although still noisy. There are submissive squeals. No weight loss.
Pair 3 (9 months). Piggy E has always rumble strutted and pestered Piggy F but Piggy F rumbled back and has generally paid little attention. I noted weight loss last week in Piggy F but he has regained it this week. They have both just eaten together from the hay rack but Piggy F is definitely a bit subdued - no wounds found. I am less concerned about Pair 3 than the others but Piggy E never seems to stop pestering Piggy F i.e. he seems to get no peace.
I apologise this is a long post but it all seems to have gone wrong at once and just when I am setting up my new pig shed. I am wondering who may need separating and whether it should be now or I should observe for a bit?
 
Personally I'd sperate them for a while if it worries you could you not partition for a short period but that way they can still see each other?it could also be territorial if they are in new surroundings they may settle down yet.x
 
Hi and welcome!

I would strongly recommend to trial separate pair #1 - that sounds like acute bullying! See whether your bitten piggy is perking up pretty straight away as soon as he is away from the other; that will give you the answer you are looking for. Just put a divider in the cage, if you have a couple of spare grids you can cable tie or cage grids that you can replace with cardboard (again, cable-tied to the other grids) for the short-term, to allow a see through divider?

The other pairs are not at a stage where you need to consider separating. All your boars are currently at one of the well known difficult times during the teenage months. I would expect your oldest pair to make it through to adulthood together although you have yet to face some more weeks of squabbles.

To be honest, I would not want to shift them to any new territory considering where they are right now, as that will require a new round of dominance to re-establish the hierarchy out and is just the thing to tip over any delicately balanced relationship. :(
 
Hi,
I will delay the move to the shed and trial separate Pair 1 as you suggest. I don't have grids but I can definitely sort something.
As I said it all seems to have gone wrong at once and I'm a bit down about it.
Thank you for your speedy responses.
 
Hi,
I will delay the move to the shed and trial separate Pair 1 as you suggest. I don't have grids but I can definitely sort something.
As I said it all seems to have gone wrong at once and I'm a bit down about it.
Thank you for your speedy responses.

It's always horrid when bonds don't work out. Hope you get to sort things out soon. Sending hugs x
 
Hi,
I will delay the move to the shed and trial separate Pair 1 as you suggest. I don't have grids but I can definitely sort something.
As I said it all seems to have gone wrong at once and I'm a bit down about it.
Thank you for your speedy responses.

You reaction is perfectly normal. it is always very upsetting when a bond doesn't work out or is very touch and go. Unfortunately, with several piggies and groups you will find that problems and illnesses come in lumps...

Can you take out two wall grids from the cage where it doesn't matter so much and replace them with some cardboard? Just cut the cardboard roughly to size and wire she sheet to the remaining grids with cable-ties or even some sturdy yarn. It works as a stop gaimprovisation.
 
You reaction is perfectly normal. it is always very upsetting when a bond doesn't work out or is very touch and go. Unfortunately, with several piggies and groups you will find that problems and illnesses come in lumps...

Can you take out two wall grids from the cage where it doesn't matter so much and replace them with some cardboard? Just cut the cardboard roughly to size and wire she sheet to the remaining grids with cable-ties or even some sturdy yarn. It works as a stop gaimprovisation.

I feel very cross with Piggy A and very sorry for Piggy B (especially as he has such a big character normally).
Unfortunately I don't have c&c cages but I have a spare cage that I am taking the end off so I can cable tie it in as suggested. I am just digging in the garage for my pliers :)
 
I feel very cross with Piggy A and very sorry for Piggy B (especially as he has such a big character normally).
Unfortunately I don't have c&c cages but I have a spare cage that I am taking the end off so I can cable tie it in as suggested. I am just digging in the garage for my pliers :)

Don't be cross with A - he is what he is. B is obviously one of those piggies that cannot stand up for themselves, otherwise you'd have ended up with a full-on fight. You have got a more than 50% chance of getting two same aged boys through to adulthood, but same-age baby boar bonds are the most difficult because they hit the hormonal peaks at the same time, so you are facing double trouble. For all that they are social animals, guinea pigs are every bit as complicated as humans... By far not all humans will live happily together!

Be careful with your pliers as you may need extra accommodation if the bond is not working.

Please keep a close eye on your bitten boy in case the bites abscess. Have they been seen by a vet or disinfected with either saline solution or hibiscrub?
First Aid Kit For Guinea Pigs
 
Don't be cross with A - he is what he is. B is obviously one of those piggies that cannot stand up for themselves, otherwise you'd have ended up with a full-on fight. You have got a more than 50% chance of getting two same aged boys through to adulthood, but same-age baby boar bonds are the most difficult because they hit the hormonal peaks at the same time, so you are facing double trouble. For all that they are social animals, guinea pigs are every bit as complicated as humans... By far not all humans will live happily together!

Be careful with your pliers as you may need extra accommodation if the bond is not working.

Please keep a close eye on your bitten boy in case the bites abscess. Have they been seen by a vet or disinfected with either saline solution or hibiscrub?
First Aid Kit For Guinea Pigs

Sorry I didn't notice this post. Yes I bathed the bites in hibiscrub and will keep an eye on them. No deep wounds that need vet attention just bites (he is protected by his long hair).
 
Well Piggy B is back to his usual entertaIning self and the bite marks look ok so far, but Piggy A rattled the partition wildly when I put it in and is now hiding in his igloo looking very sorry for himself. I am wondering what the future holds for these two. I never intended neutering any boars and getting sows as I feared that would upset the other boar pairs balance. This pair is too young to introduce baby boars as that would risk even more hormonal clashes in a few months. I know there is a while to go before decisions have to be made but I'm a worrier. . .
 
Hopefully they will settle down soon now partitioned,i heard that even if you did get them neutered it doesn't calm them down as it would with a dog so would probably be a waste of money. Given time they may bond as they can gradually and safely do it through the partition hope everything goes well.
 
Hopefully they will settle down soon now partitioned,i heard that even if you did get them neutered it doesn't calm them down as it would with a dog so would probably be a waste of money. Given time they may bond as they can gradually and safely do it through the partition hope everything goes well.

Hi, I meant have the boars neutered so they could be split to live with sows. Sorry if my ramblings didn't make this clear :)
 
Well now I'm confused! I've just been to check the piggies and bulied piggy B has somehow moved his igloo and used it as a step to jump over the partition to get in with naughty piggy A. Piggy A was in his igloo (where he has been sulking all day) with piggy B sat on top of piggy A's igloo. Why would piggy B do that? I have put him back in his own bit and moved his igloo and he is staring through the partition. Sigh.
 
Today I put this pair in the bathroom to see if they might be ok. Piggy B was thrilled to be back with bully Piggy A and was popcorning all over. They had a bit of a face off then Piggy A started popcorning. After two hours and no bullying I have put them back together. They each have a bedroom, tube, water bottle, pile if readigrass and veg. They have separate bowls but shared one. Maybe bully Piggy A is too hot and bothered to chase Piggy B. I am trying to stay awake so i can keep checking on them. Piggy B can climb on top of his bedroom to get out of the way if necessary. I know it is not a certainty but I have a tiny bit of hope that the worst is over for now. If Wiebke thinks I should separate them still then I will. Hopefully all will be ok in the meantime.
 
Well now I'm confused! I've just been to check the piggies and bulied piggy B has somehow moved his igloo and used it as a step to jump over the partition to get in with naughty piggy A. Piggy A was in his igloo (where he has been sulking all day) with piggy B sat on top of piggy A's igloo. Why would piggy B do that? I have put him back in his own bit and moved his igloo and he is staring through the partition. Sigh.

It sounds like B wants to be living with A. Please re-introduce them on neutral territory and let them get on with it. You have got your answer...

See our guides at the top of this section for tips on how to do this. You do not need to bathe, as the boys are not covered in testosterone laden pee anymore.

PS: If things go wrong, you could contact Milhaven Guinea Pig Rescue in Keighley or BARC in Barnsley for bonding help. They can also recommend a neutering vet (the one they use, so he has got practice) if you are considering switching to mixed pairs and then would like to date each boy at a rescue for a wife of their liking, too.
 
Thank you very much for that Wiebke. There has been no trouble overnight and they are currently settled but I know I am not out of the woods yet and I await the next hormonal surge. I have my partition at the ready. I love sows but I am worried that if I neuter them ( n.b. I am near Holly House vets who are on your list and piggy experts) in order to introduce to sows then that may upset the balance of the other unsteady boar pairs I have. So I think I would try male bonding at Millhaven if they continue to fight. Or I may go mad and end up with 6 boar/wife pairs! Thanks again.
 
Thank you very much for that Wiebke. There has been no trouble overnight and they are currently settled but I know I am not out of the woods yet and I await the next hormonal surge. I have my partition at the ready. I love sows but I am worried that if I neuter them ( n.b. I am near Holly House vets who are on your list and piggy experts) in order to introduce to sows then that may upset the balance of the other unsteady boar pairs I have. So I think I would try male bonding at Millhaven if they continue to fight. Or I may go mad and end up with 6 boar/wife pairs! Thanks again.

Keep any mixed pairs out of sight and reach of pheromones - either a bit of a distance away or below a boar enclosure, as the pheromones don't rise.
 
Keep any mixed pairs out of sight and reach of pheromones - either a bit of a distance away or below a boar enclosure, as the pheromones don't rise.

They will eventually all be in the same pig shed. I wondered if sows should be kept to one side, below or above boars - now I know. Many thanks! :)
 
They will eventually all be in the same pig shed. I wondered if sows should be kept to one side, below or above boars - now I know. Many thanks! :)

Sows should be ideally on one side, preferably lower than the boars in view of how pheromones travel.
 
Piggy A has bullied Piggy B again but just pulled out fur and left sore bare bits grrrrr!. The partition is back in again :(
There is good news in that the other two pairs of boars have settled down.
Poor Piggy B so wants to have company and was rubbing noses with the older pair tonight (through the cage bars) and no signzs of aggression from any, not even rumblings or dragging bottoms (don't worry I am not putting him in with them!) But I felt so sad for him as he was popcorning around and happy to see them.
 
As long as piggie B can see his friends through the bars he Will be ok. One of my pairs had a falling out and won't go back together so I understand what you are going through.
 
I am trying this pair back together one last time today as they don't fight or argue - it is just that Piggy A is a bully i.e. get out of my way or I will bite you (he is quite aggressive towards me). They will both eat from the same bowl/rack of readigrass/pile of veg, etc. but if he gets his cocky head on then Piggy B jumps up onto the igloo out of the way (having had his bottom nipped previously). To be honest I am really wishing I had never got these two (although Piggy B is sweet) but neither boar wants to be groomed due to these dominance issues. I groom very gently and have even stopped proper grooming for a while (just picking out any bits and feeling for foreign bodies). Piggy A just tries to bite me and teeth chatters inbetween. He seemed really depressed when the partition was in and just hid in his igloo (not even eating his vegetables). Both pigs popcorned around when I removed it earlier and vegetables eaten by both pigs. I had lots of pigs in the past but they were neutered boars living with sows. One boar arrived as a biter but that stopped when he settled in. Anyway, twittering over, we'll see what happens I suppose. :(
 
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