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Is this normal or abnormal breathing?

Katie A

Katie A

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi everyone!

I'm a new guinea pig owner of two boars named Leo and Odi. I have been to the vet 3 times over the past 2 weeks (two different vets). Both vets agreed he had a slight URI and he took antibiotics for 2 weeks. His energy and appetite improved after the antibiotics, and he's only been off them for 2 days. I still feel he breathes heavily compared to my other piggie. The vets say he "looks great" and they've listened to his heart multiple times each vet visit and can't find anything that seems off. However, this is my first time having guinea pigs so maybe I just don't know what is normal or not. Currently, his appetite and energy are fine. His weight is stable. I just don't like his breathing, but maybe it's nothing.

Two videos while eating.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UgsaWw88oBQH8M5M184pj57JuARNojwb/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13i0-OfoW9jnLELAyecPw1uvZFU4gDP44/view?usp=sharing

Resting

Can you please keep the volume off on this one! There is a lot of background talking. Sorry!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OwxfGCCdl2imcpUpJXK_DDx2suEcB78N/view?usp=sharing

In this one he is also making a noise that I'm not sure what it is. He makes this noise a lot while sitting alone.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XT48DXTti3oCZHk3lVOZyuAWc8S5Uc5n/view?usp=sharing

Thank you!
 
Oooh i dont know but i have a worrying breather too and i have had pigs for years.

I *think* they should be silent when breathing. All my other pigs have been silent and now i have a snuffler whose sides pop in and out like your Leo's.

I personally dont think it's normal but I'm not a vet and my story is similar to yours.

I'm nebulising. But i dont know if it's helping!

I will be interested to see what more experienced members and the forum health experts think on this one
 
Have you made sure there are no irritants in their room? Such as perfumes, scented candles etc? And their hay isn’t too dusty?

I see his chest seems to move quite a bit when he’s breathing. Is it accompanied by any wheezy sounds? I’ve no experience so not sure how you can move forward. If both the vets are experienced then I don’t know that seeing another would be of benefit. What did they say about his breathing?

I’ll tag @Wiebke @VickiA
 
Thanks for the replies everyone!

There are no irritants in the room (they are in my bedroom). I wash their fleece with unscented detergent. I change the fleece every 2-3 days with smaller fleece pee pads that I change daily. I do wonder about the hay dust. I buy 2nd cutting Timothy hay in 20 lb boxes. I just finished one box and opened a new one this morning so we'll see if that makes any difference. I also keep an air purifier next to their cage and try to vacuum every few days.

I have not noticed any wheezing noises. He used to cough a lot, but that seems to have calmed down after the antibiotics. I still hear it every now and then but not nearly as much as before the medicine. The vets were just not too concerned with the breathing. They both said his heartbeat was "really fast" but that it was probably because he was nervous at the vet. Overall, neither seemed too concerned about it. On Tuesday, the vet gave me a anti-inflammatory/pain med to try for 5 days to see if that helps any. I have not noticed any difference but it's only been 2 days.

Oh, the main vet is really anti-fleece. He keeps saying to put them on newspaper? He says fleece has dust, but I don't see how fleece is dusty? He also said he does sound a bit congested when compared to Odi, my other piggie, but still said it is fine to stop the antibiotic. Another thing is Leo's size. I got Odi and Leo at the same time and Odi has gotten huge! Leo looks like a baby compared to him. But maybe he's just tiny. I did send all those videos to both vets but haven't heard anything back yet. Mostly I'm just left feeling overly anxious about them as they say he "looks great and healthy." I've had them almost 3 months and I think his breathing has always been like that, but I just didn't notice at first till he started getting lethargic right before the antibiotics.

Oh, and as for the teeth chattering. Hmm....I don't know what could be irritating him? He seems to only do that when he goes into his cube for resting. I wish he could tell me. haha!
 

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Are the vets experienced in treating guinea pigs? Regarding the fleece comment, it may be that’s what the vet is ‘used’ to. I hope whatever it is stops or you can get to the bottom of it.
 
Yep, the vets seem to be pretty experienced with guinea pigs/exotics. They have a whole website page dedicated to them and most of the google reviews are about exotics. One even has a separate entrance/waiting room just for them. Hmm....that is really interesting about the chronic rhinitis. Do you remember if you just quit giving the antibiotics all together? Yeah, I hope I can find some solution for him! I hate to see him breathing so hard all the time. :/
 
**Update**
So yesterday afternoon I started to notice that Leo was getting quiet again and his appetite was going down and he was starting to hide again. Talked to the vet this morning and he wants to do 3 more weeks of antibiotics. He was starting to feel so much better till we stopped the antibiotics on Tuesday. Hopefully this next round will knock this out.
 
Fingers crossed it works @Katie A - my 4 month old was on 6 weeks anti bs. 2 weeks septrin and 4 weeks doxycycline.

Her chest infection cleared but she stayed noisy in the upper respiratory tract. Off anti bs one week and then subdued again.

Back to vet, chest clear apparently.


I'm nebulising F10 and she has actually picked right up again but i dont know if she will ever breathe quietly.


Please let us know how leo goes - i really hope he makes a full recovery and breathes silently after all the anti bs are finished!
 
@tabelmabel Thank you so much! Happy to hear that your little piggie is feeling somewhat better despite the noisy breathing. It is so sad to watch them not feeling well. Is the nebulising something your vet recommended or did you decide to try it yourself? I need to read more about it as I'm not entirely sure what is involved with that. I'll let you know how he's doing. Hopefully the antibiotics will perk him up some. :)
 
@Katie A - initially when i took ebony to the vet, she didnt have a chest infection and the only symptom was noisy breathing.

So the vet thought it was an environmental cause and nebulising would help (as well as hay and bedding changes)

When it progressed to pneumonia and she went onto anti bs, nebulising wasnt advised by the vet for that but i had read about it on this forum i think and had seen about the antiseptic F10 that can help kill bugs in the upper airway.

So i asked my vet and he said i couldnt do any harm nebulising F10.




I dont know if it helps - all i can say is that ebony loves it! Initially i tried putting her in a carrier and making a nebulisation chamber but she seemed scared in there.

So i just hold her on my knee and use the mask - she thrusts her whole face right in there! In all honesty, i cant see that it brings any instant relief but she does like it in there.

I do twice a day for 20 mins each time so it is time consuming on my knee.


The stuff i use is F10 antiseptic (not to be confused with F10 detergent which is for cleaning cages and not ok to nebulise)


It needs diluted at one part f10 to 250 parts water.

Hope that helps
 
@tabelmabel Thank you so much for explaining that! I'm in crisis mode with him right now. He quit eating entirely yesterday so I've been syringe feeding him (my first time ever doing this). I'm only managing about 5mL per session. :( I'm going to try to do it every 2 hours or so today. He's really having a hard time breathing. I put some steaming water next to his cage. He's on the antibiotic and the anti-inflammatory. Hopefully the meds kick in soon.
 
When do I know if he needs emergency care or not? He is on the meds and getting syringe fed. His breathing is just worrying me, but I know that won't clear up until the antibiotics start to work.
 
Oh dear - sorry to hear this. Have you got pro biotics too? These can make a massive difference in keeping the gut flora going. They can be added in with your critical care syringe feed but need to be given either an hour before or an hour after the anti biotic.

(Otherwise the anti biotic kills off the probiotic)


What anti biotic have you got? And what dose?


I'm not a heath expert on the forum. Maybe @Wiebke can look in and offer some tips for the best outcome.


I did have a pig in the past that had a very acute uri, sides sucking in and out, not eating, had baytril and made a good recovery. Once the anti b kicks in, it can be incredible.


In the meantime, keep leo with his cagemate. Dont put them outside no matter how good your weather, keep leo indoors draught free. A cozy hidey so he can recuperate and rest up.


It is such a stressful time. Will keep my fingers crossed that he pulls through.

@Siikibam will also know better than me about when to dash leo back to the emergency vets
 
Thank you so much! He is about 5 (maybe 6) months old. He is taking SMZ/TMP antibiotic at 0.35 mL twice a day. He weighs about 1.45 lb which I think would be around 679 g? He is also taking meloxicam at 0.2 mL once a day. It is the same antibiotic he started a little over 2 weeks ago. After about 3 days on it he started feeling great again. I hope that is the case this time. I started it yesterday, so he's only had 2 doses so far. Thank you for the advice on the probiotics! I just got some Bene-Bac (I think is a USA only brand), and I'll start giving that to him tonight with his critical care feeding.

His cagemate, Odi, is super worried about him. He keeps sleeping right in front of his hidey. Usually they sleep on opposite ends of the cage. I'm still only managing about 5 - 6 mL of syringe feeding at once. Any more and he starts fighting it. I've only gotten up to maybe 25 - 30 mL in the last almost 24 hours. I'm going to do it every 2 hours today. Last night he was eating it off the spoon, but today he is less interested. I'll keep you posted!
 
When was he last seen by the vet and when is he next due to see the vet?
 
He was last seen on Tuesday, which is when the vet said to stop the antibiotics because he was feeling better. Wednesday he was fine. Thursday he started to get bad again. I called the vet yesterday and that is when they re-prescribed the antibiotics for another 2 weeks and extended the anti-inflammatory for an extra week. I don't currently have a follow-up scheduled, but they want to finish the 2 weeks of antibiotics before seeing him again.
 
If you feel that he is deteriorating I would ask the vet to see him again. He may need a different antibiotic.
 
Hmm okay! It has now just passed 24 hours since re-starting the antibiotic, so hopefully by tomorrow he will start to feel a bit better. Thank you! :)
 
I'm happy to report that he has not lost any more weight since yesterday, and even came out of hiding for a few seconds to eat a few nibbles of bell pepper. He was also eating the critical care off the spoon again. Hopefully he will continue to improve. :)
 
Brilliant news! Hopefully he will go from strength to strength. One thing to be mindful of - even when he appears to be fully recovered is that it can take a very long time indeed (weeks or longer) for the pig to get up to full lung health.

I'm always very wary not to put them outside on grass or in an outdoor hutch after a uri because the slightest change can set them right back again.

Just keep the indoor environment at a nice, steady temperature, out of draughts and, God willing, Leo will perk right up again.

Thanks for the update - my Ebony has perked right up again and had a good day today so that is good news for us both :tu:
 
@tabelmabel I'm so happy to hear that Ebony has perked up today! Let's hope they both continue with this upward trend. That is interesting about your vet thinking it has an environmental cause. That is what my vet kept pushing too. Especially regarding him wanting them off the fleece and onto newspaper (which I don't really agree with that bedding change). I will definitely look into the nebulizer. Especially if he is still doing that heavy breathing after another 2 weeks of antibiotics.

Great news for Ebony and Leo today! Please keep the updates coming and I'll let you know if Leo starts eating on his own again. :)
 
Katie A said:
That is interesting about your vet thinking it has an environmental cause.
Click to expand...



Ah - that was before ebony developed pneumonia. Initially, when i first took her to the vet she was active, eating, chatting away happy as anything but her breathing was 'clicky'


At that stage, she didnt have a chest infection and with my reports of her behaviour being good, environmental was put forward as a likely explanation.

The vet did point out at that stage though that, when the body's immune system is already under strain battling allergens, then it is more vulnerable to getting other infections.

Ebony was only about 8 weeks old when all this started so the odds were stacked against her really with her young age and a susceptibility to breathing issues.

When i next took her to the vet, i really thought id got her there super quick as she was still eating herself, still moving about. I think all that had happened was that her breathing was more snuffly and she was a bit slower to the veg than her cagemate.

She really didnt look too bad at all. In fact, she was in with the vet a full half hour as he wanted his student to locate the pneumonia in her lung and he ( the student) couldnt find it. It was just in one lung and not widespread.

The vet really thought an antibiotic would knock it right out.


And ebony continued self feeding right through but it took a good month before the crackle went off her lung and she is still a clicky, snuffly breather now.

Ive corrected what i can in her environment but she does like to burrow right into her hay and always comes out sneezing and snuffling!

So i think it maybe was triggered by the change in environment coming from the breeder's to mine. A weak immune system and then a bug (likely from her cagemate) has got in to her.

I'm worried her lungs wont ever be very strong. Just need to see how she goes; she has cost me a fortune so far, bless her.
 
tabelmabel said:
Ah - that was before ebony developed pneumonia. Initially, when i first took her to the vet she was active, eating, chatting away happy as anything but her breathing was 'clicky'


At that stage, she didnt have a chest infection and with my reports of her behaviour being good, environmental was put forward as a likely explanation.

The vet did point out at that stage though that, when the body's immune system is already under strain battling allergens, then it is more vulnerable to getting other infections.

Ebony was only about 8 weeks old when all this started so the odds were stacked against her really with her young age and a susceptibility to breathing issues.

When i next took her to the vet, i really thought id got her there super quick as she was still eating herself, still moving about. I think all that had happened was that her breathing was more snuffly and she was a bit slower to the veg than her cagemate.

She really didnt look too bad at all. In fact, she was in with the vet a full half hour as he wanted his student to locate the pneumonia in her lung and he ( the student) couldnt find it. It was just in one lung and not widespread.

The vet really thought an antibiotic would knock it right out.


And ebony continued self feeding right through but it took a good month before the crackle went off her lung and she is still a clicky, snuffly breather now.

Ive corrected what i can in her environment but she does like to burrow right into her hay and always comes out sneezing and snuffling!

So i think it maybe was triggered by the change in environment coming from the breeder's to mine. A weak immune system and then a bug (likely from her cagemate) has got in to her.

I'm worried her lungs wont ever be very strong. Just need to see how she goes; she has cost me a fortune so far, bless her.
Click to expand...
Ohhhh okay I see! That is super interesting. I see what you mean now about it likely starting with an environmental allergen then developing into pneumonia due to having a weaker immune system. Besides always having some clicky breathing, do her sides/head move a lot when she breathes too?
 
Katie A said:
do her sides/head move a lot when she breathes too?
Click to expand...


Not just now as she seems good just now (it's just snuffles but she is running about, active and bright)


But they were when she had pneumonia and they also were last monday.

Now this is interesting because last monday she sounded terrible. Her sides were popping in and out, she was lethargic, her breathing was very rattly so i took her to the vet.

It wasnt the pig savvy vet but another in the same practice. The vet listened in and said the chest was clear and all the rattling was upper airway.

Ebony is not long through a 6 week anti biotic course and the vet wasnt wanting to prescribe more ant bs so she prescribed nothing at all.


Well, the next morning, ebony looked worse and i gave her a syringe feed and started nebulising like crazy!

As fortune would have it, i had some rhuemicam (that's an anti inflammatary pain killer) left over from her previous prescription.

I thought i have to do something here so i started dosing that 0.1ml 2x each day as before and lo and behold she picked up pretty fast.

In fact, she was looking better and eating herself again by late on tuesday.

She has got better every day and is looking really good now. Still upper airway noise but she always has that.


So - mystery is - what helped? The rheumicam, the f10 nebuliser or both?

I'm convinced she'd not have got better had i not done anything.

And I'm also convinced the vet was wrong and she did have congestion on the chest - as her sides were definitely showing respiratory effort.

So - could the F10 have killed off the bugs in the lung?

I didnt give her any anti biotic at all with this latest episode.


I'm back at the vet on weds this week with the pig savvy vet. I'm going to ask him if i could have some rheumicam just to keep in the house for future flare ups.


How is leo today?
 
Huh, okay. Wow, that is a bit of a mystery there! I wonder if there is a lot to the f10 nebulizing that is helping Ebony with her breathing. Whew, 6 weeks of antibiotics! That is a long time. I feel like I might be on a similar course with Leo, so definitely interesting to hear about the nebuliser....I'm curious, what is the point of the anti inflammatory pain killer? Leo is on meloxicam. The bottle says like "for suspected upper airway inflammation". My vet just didn't really explain what it is supposed to do or what it means if the pain killer helps. Is that the same thing as a URI?

Leo seems a bit better today. He was actually munching on a tad of hay with his buddy, Odi. I am a tad confused though on when I should stop syringe feeding? He is eating a little pellets, a tad of hay, and will take a few nibbles of veggies on his own. However, his poo has been really soft and clumped which I've never seen before (not even the last time he was on antibiotics).
 
Meloxicam will do exactly the same as rheumicam (normally my vet prefers loxicom which is another that does the same job but it has run short in the uk)

When you have pneumonia, it hurts to beathe (if you have ever had a chest infection, think of that)

The infection causes inflammation and that hurts.

A sore pig is a poorly pig is a not eating pig.


So, reduce inflammation, reduce pain, get those lungs inflating again and you have a pig that feels heaps better.



Yes, I'm very curious how good this f10 is. It certainly seems to be a handy thing for us piggy owners to keep in our stocks as it has a few uses (cleaning wounds is another use)


On the bottle it says "a broad spectrum preparation effective against viruses, fungi, spores and bacteria"


That would indicate it might actually be able to kill some infections off before they take hold?



This is something I'm going to ask my vet about.


I know anti biotics are definitely needed once an infection sets in deep in the lung - but this thing ebony had last monday - could it be the f10 that knocked it out?


Because I'm sure as sure can be if id done nothing, she might not be here with me now. Was it the f10? Was it the rheumicam? Mystery!
 
Katie A said:
. I am a tad confused though on when I should stop syringe feeding? He is eating a little pellets, a tad of hay, and will take a few nibbles of veggies on his own. However, his poo has been really soft and clumped which I've never seen before (not even the last time he was on antibiotics).
Click to expand...


Keep up your probiotics - it will be your anti bs causing soft poo.

Maybe hold right back on lettuce. I like red pepper (think that is your zucchini?) For poorly pigs as it is loaded with vit c.


I usually stop syringe once they are eating hay but you can add critical care to a bowl. You want to encourage self feeding though.

Glad he is perking up!
 
Capsicum!


Red bell pepper is capsicum, right?!


And zuccini is courgette?


I meant capsicum, not zuccini :D
 
Haha I had actually never heard of capsicum! Just looked it up though, and yep that is the same as red bell pepper. I'll have to get some as I only have green right now.

Wait, so should he not have much (or any) veggies right now while having the soft poo and on antibiotics? Besides some bell pepper?

And, he is eating a few little pieces of hay and a tiny amount of pellets, but not much. Should I still pull back on the syringe feed? Or see how his weight is doing? I haven't weighed him today yet.
 
Oh, what a confusing language we speak! I have been on the google and wikipaedia tells me it is also bell pepper in the U.S?

And capsicum in Australia. And some other countries. It's interesting but confusing. I'm originally from England but have lived in Scotland many years and there are quite a few different meanings between Scots and English too. . .
 
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