Is this calcium deposit normal?

[Pantalaimon]

I found this calcium deposit on the pee pad of a bed in my guinea pigs cage, it is not like the ones I usually see but this could be because it was still damp. I used to see a lot of little white piles of dust but since altering their diet I mostly see white spots and the piles are rare. This one looked different and when i rubbed it between my fingers it felt like very very fine sand. I am not sure if this was becuase it was still damp? I am aware that gritty deposits can be due to bladder sludge/stones but I'm not sure that this counts as gritty.
Should I be concerned? (I will be keeping an eye out for any more or any unusual behaviour when weeing)

 

[superka]

it is normal but also means you're feeding them greens with too much calcium. change up their diet as it can cause problem.

 

[Wiebke]

I found this calcium deposit on the pee pad of a bed in my guinea pigs cage, it is not like the ones I usually see but this could be because it was still damp. I used to see a lot of little white piles of dust but since altering their diet I mostly see white spots and the piles are rare. This one looked different and when i rubbed it between my fingers it felt like very very fine sand. I am not sure if this was becuase it was still damp? I am aware that gritty deposits can be due to bladder sludge/stones but I'm not sure that this counts as gritty.
Should I be concerned? (I will be keeping an eye out for any more or any unusual behaviour when weeing)

Hi

As long as it is not gritty when you rub it between your fingers, it is the normal way a guinea pig excretes any excess calcium in their diet and not to worry about if its is just an occasional event.

However if you see calcium pee deposits on a near daily basis, please review your diet. It could be both either too high or too low in calcium and out of your locally determined sweet spot. Many people are not aware of the latter aspect.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

 

[Pantalaimon]

Thank you for the responses.
I do only usually see white stains rather than actual removable deposits. As I described, it did not feel like a powder but rather a very fine sand when rubbed between my fingers, I was unsure as to whether this would be considered "gritty".
I don't think I can change their diet to be any lower in calcium without completely removing pellets. They get a round of cucumber (approx 1.5 cm deep), a chunk of bell pepper and two large romaine lettuce leaves (or a few small ones) washed before feeding once per day. They have science selective pellets also once a day and though I don't measure these out they alwasy get the same amount (not quite enough to cover the bottom of the bowl).

 

[BabyBears]

I don't want to be the bearer of bad knews but calcium deposites aren't great for piggies.
I am suffering bloody wee from re-homed pigs at the moment and have lost pigs to bladder stones. I am going to check on all of them tomorrow but i suspect a gritty bit went down one of their wee channels.
: Rules of thumb - piggies REALLY like high calcium green veggies like parsley, spinach, kale etc. - DON'T GIVE IT TO THEM EVEN THOUGH THEY LOVE IT! - And I hate not giving them dandelion leaves.

Mine love the OxBow Urinary Health tablets (recommended by my vet)- in fact Strawberry waits for me to give her one every morning and then dives under my bed to eat it.

Thank you for the responses.
I do only usually see white stains rather than actual removable deposits. As I described, it did not feel like a powder but rather a very fine sand when rubbed between my fingers, I was unsure as to whether this would be considered "gritty".
I don't think I can change their diet to be any lower in calcium without completely removing pellets. They get a round of cucumber (approx 1.5 cm deep), a chunk of bell pepper and two large romaine lettuce leaves (or a few small ones) washed before feeding once per day. They have science selective pellets also once a day and though I don't measure these out they alwasy get the same amount (not quite enough to cover the bottom of the bowl).

You are doing absolutley the right thing by monitoring their calcium wee and feeling it through your fingers. Unfortunately in my experience, some poor pigs are more prone to Ca wee (possibly genetically) than others. I have an ancient old brood sow - Queen Primrose - almost 8yrs old, and she's never done Ca wee. But I have had two piggie friends who have died from bladderstones, so i am vigilant.

Leafy veggies that are safe for pigs and low in Ca - pak choi and fennel - Primrose LOVES fennel

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you for the responses.
I do only usually see white stains rather than actual removable deposits. As I described, it did not feel like a powder but rather a very fine sand when rubbed between my fingers, I was unsure as to whether this would be considered "gritty".
I don't think I can change their diet to be any lower in calcium without completely removing pellets. They get a round of cucumber (approx 1.5 cm deep), a chunk of bell pepper and two large romaine lettuce leaves (or a few small ones) washed before feeding once per day. They have science selective pellets also once a day and though I don't measure these out they alwasy get the same amount (not quite enough to cover the bottom of the bowl).

Most calcium comes into the diet via drinking water and pellets.
Please do measure their pellets and give one tablespoon per pig per day - not quite enough to cover the bowl doesn’t mean anything really given the size of the bowl affects that greatly!
If I remember rightly, Cornwall has soft water?

As Wiebke has said, a diet too low in calcium is just as bad as one too high and can also cause problems as they balance is knocked out but just in the other direction. It’s about finding the right balance for your piggies.

 

[Free Ranger]

It does look quite a thick deposit but at the same time you seem to to be doing as much as you can! Any chance you can persuade them to drink more? If you have one bottle between two maybe get another bottle as well? My vets encourage us to 'keep everything flushing through' so normal levels of sediment don't get a chance to build up. We managed to increase our water drinking by:
1) Putting a bottle near the pellet bowl - this means they drink as they eat their dry food. I think the dryness triggers them to look for a drink but if they have to waddle away from the bowl they'll put it off in case the other one eats all the pellets!
2) Put a bottle (and thus maybe the bowl) near a 'bedroom' area. Then it's easier for them to have a quick chug in the night rather than putting it off until day time. I've got one big fat girl who lounges in a corner for much of the evening and I'll often hear the bottle clunk just now and again. I don't think she even gets up! We think about them drinking in the day because that's when we see them but the nights are very long and if we can enable them to drink at night by putting a bottle close to the bedroom so they just have to pop their head out it might encourage them.

Are your piggies boys or girls? Boys have slightly narrower tubes so sludgy pee is more likely to cause problems. Girls have a bit more leeway. At least piggy managed to pee it out!

 

[Pantalaimon]

Most calcium comes into the diet via drinking water and pellets.
Please do measure their pellets and give one tablespoon per pig per day - not quite enough to cover the bowl doesn’t mean anything really given the size of the bowl affects that greatly!
If I remember rightly, Cornwall has soft water?

As Wiebke has said, a diet too low in calcium is just as bad as one too high and can also cause problems as they balance is knocked out but just in the other direction. It’s about finding the right balance for your piggies.

Thank you for your response.

Yes, the area has very soft water, rarely any build up on pipes or taps.

I did weigh the amount they get and it was less than 8 grams. I need to get a tablespoon measure as the one I have access to would not fit many pellets due to its shape.

One of my pigs is 6 and has some issues with keeping her weight up, it seems that any veg that is good for weight gain is also high in calcium.
Is it better to reduce the pellets but occasionally give higher calcium veg for weight gain, or keep giving the pellets but no or very little high calcium veg?
(I do also have an issue with my other pig eating all of the food…)

 

[Free Ranger]

We give old George carrot every other day and a pinch of oats every day to try and help keep his weight up. He's 6 and has had a stone operation last month. I'm resigned to the fact I'll have to 'manage' his situation, probably because of his advancing age. For the first 5 1/2 years of his life he stuffed his face with anything he liked and had no trouble but then suddenly it was a stone, then another, and now on-going sludge issues which we try and manage. He's missing his brassicas though. But the thing he likes most of all is fresh grass which we go out to find for the pigs in the morning. Luckily we are in a countryside area of the UK and can usually find grass that is free from dog pee and not near a road! Grass is pretty fattening if they eat enough - look at the size of cows!

 

[Pantalaimon]

It does look quite a thick deposit but at the same time you seem to to be doing as much as you can! Any chance you can persuade them to drink more? If you have one bottle between two maybe get another bottle as well? My vets encourage us to 'keep everything flushing through' so normal levels of sediment don't get a chance to build up. We managed to increase our water drinking by:
1) Putting a bottle near the pellet bowl - this means they drink as they eat their dry food. I think the dryness triggers them to look for a drink but if they have to waddle away from the bowl they'll put it off in case the other one eats all the pellets!
2) Put a bottle (and thus maybe the bowl) near a 'bedroom' area. Then it's easier for them to have a quick chug in the night rather than putting it off until day time. I've got one big fat girl who lounges in a corner for much of the evening and I'll often hear the bottle clunk just now and again. I don't think she even gets up! We think about them drinking in the day because that's when we see them but the nights are very long and if we can enable them to drink at night by putting a bottle close to the bedroom so they just have to pop their head out it might encourage them.

Are your piggies boys or girls? Boys have slightly narrower tubes so sludgy pee is more likely to cause problems. Girls have a bit more leeway. At least piggy managed to pee it out!

Thank you.
I have a 6 year old sow (Ratter, 930g) who has issues keeping weight and a nearly 3 year old boar (Pat, 1400g) who keeps gaining weight! The bed is used by both of them.

Their cage is an L-shaped 2x8 C&C. They get fed on either side of the inner corner so that they don’t feel as tempted to immediately swap bowls. Each bowl has a bottle next to it. Ratter drinks very little and I used to give her oxbow urinary tablets with 2-4 1ml syringe-fulls of water every day but I stopped as she wouldn’t take the full tablet so I would spend 30 minutes feeding it to her.
I may start this again but give them to them both.

 

[Pantalaimon]

We give old George carrot every other day and a pinch of oats every day to try and help keep his weight up. He's 6 and has had a stone operation last month. I'm resigned to the fact I'll have to 'manage' his situation, probably because of his advancing age. For the first 5 1/2 years of his life he stuffed his face with anything he liked and had no trouble but then suddenly it was a stone, then another, and now on-going sludge issues which we try and manage. He's missing his brassicas though. But the thing he likes most of all is fresh grass which we go out to find for the pigs in the morning. Luckily we are in a countryside area of the UK and can usually find grass that is free from dog pee and not near a road! Grass is pretty fattening if they eat enough - look at the size of cows!

I will try to give them grass more often then, I also live in the countryside and there is no shortage of it!

 

[BabyBears]

It does look quite a thick deposit but at the same time4 you seem to to be doing as much as you can! Any chance you can persuade them to drink more? If you have one bottle between two maybe get another bottle as well? My vets encourage us to 'keep everything flushing through' so normal levels of sediment don't get a chance to build up. We managed to increase our water drinking by:
1) Putting a bottle near the pellet bowl - this means they drink as they eat their dry food. I think the dryness triggers them to look for a drink but if they have to waddle away from the bowl they'll put it off in case the other one eats all the pellets!
2) Put a bottle (and thus maybe the bowl) near a 'bedroom' area. Then it's easier for them to have a quick chug in the night rather than putting it off until day time. I've got one big fat girl who lounges in a corner for much of the evening and I'll often hear the bottle clunk just now and again. I don't think she even gets up! We think about them drinking in the day because that's when we see them but the nights are very long and if we can enable them to drink at night by putting a bottle close to the bedroom so they just have to pop their head out it might encourage them.

Are your piggies boys or girls? Boys have slightly narrower tubes so sludgy pee is more likely to cause problems. Girls have a bit more leeway. At least piggy managed to pee it out!

I n my experience, sadly it is just sometimes down to the piggie and their genetic make-up as to whether they will do Ca wee.I re homed a couple of brood sows - completely clear wee. I re-homed a couple of very young sows last year and they both have horrendous chalky wee (and they are unrelated). One of them has passed blood recently. I have unfortunately had a lot of experience with pigs and bladder stones. I am not too concerned with Strawberry because she is popcorn-tastic and I think that she has just passed some gritty wee. In my experience of pigs with bladder stones, you must watch for straining to pee, cries and grunts. Also stringy little poos, which is an indication that your piggie is in pain. I am constantly monitoring Strawberrly. I am very fortunate in that the is doing very healthy poos and if I had an inkling of her being in pain I would whisk her off to the vet immediately. Fortunately our local vet is very piggie-conscious and has performed several bladder stone removal operations - she is a lovely lady and really conscientious. Digressing here, but she told me about performing a caesarean on a sow over the age of being able to give birth and showed me lovely photos of FOUR lovely piglets and a happy, recovering sow - she’s a great piggie vet.

 

[Free Ranger]

she’s a great piggie vet.

It's always reassuring to find a vet with experience and an interest in piggies!

 

[BabyBears]

So I would just like to report that for the past 3 weeks, I have put my piggies on a low calcium diet. Strawberry had done occasional (twice) bloody wee after doing really chalky wee, as had Pebblle. My ancient Queen Primrose has never done chalkiness.
So the low Ca diet seems to really work - much less chalky wee and no blood thankfully.
Grass always - they were SO excited to get new grass from the garden today! Leafy veg with low Ca includes pak choi and fennel - very tasty and healthy!