Is it wrong to not have this surgery done?

[PB&U]

Hi all,
I have a guinea pig boar, Pinto, who is getting close to 5 years old. He has suffered from off and on URI’s most of his life, and has been on 5+ rounds of antibiotics.

Recently he had another flair up with blood discharge from his nose, as well as no eating. The vet performed a CT scan, blood work, and a culture. He is now on Marbofloxacin, which has improved his condition, and he’s tolerating it well.

One treatment option the vet is recommending is a Rhinotomy. We learned from the CT scan that due to the chronic infection, many of the filter structures in his nasal passages have been destroyed. The vet said this procedure could increase his life expectancy as well as quality of life.

I’m leaning towards not doing the surgery for these reasons:

1. The vet is 3 hours one way from my house. According to the vet there could be frequent follow up visits, especially soon after the surgery. This is not only difficult for me, but could be added stress to Pinto with that much time in the carrier (I usually stay a night).

2. There is limited information of this surgery being performed in guinea pigs. There are cases of success in rabbits, and I do have an excellent vet/animal hospital. I had another pig I didn’t hesitate to have a bladder stone removed in, but that surgery has much more documented success.

3. There will probably be a large amount of after care, and possible long term management with nasal flushing and topical antibiotic application. This could not be very enjoyable for Pinto.

4. The cost of the surgery is $2,500-$3,500 USD. I could afford this, but it’s a large enough amount of money that it would be very noticeable to spend.

There are more reasons I’m leaning against it, but these are probably at the top of my mind. I love Pinto with all my heart, and when it boils to down to it I want to do what’s best for him. If I don’t do the surgery option, the vet says he would need to permanently stay on the antibiotics, and I could expect him to live maybe another year, making him close to 6. I would plan on using his eating as a barometer of how well he feels. When he eventually stops feeling well enough to eat, I wouldn’t prolong his suffering and have him put to sleep.

With all of this said I can’t help but feel I would be doing something wrong or cruel to not give him this surgery. I feel as though I’m not doing everything I can for him to give him a chance at a longer and better life. I’m really just not sure what to do for Pinto.

Any thoughts you may have I would greatly appreciate.

Austin

 

[Wiebke]

HUGS

We always have second thoughts when we opt out of surgery or opt for elective surgery, and the same happens when we have to make the decision to euthanise a beloved one. We wouldn't be loving owners without a fair amount of soul-searching and doubts. There is nobody who can tell you whether you are making the right decision and there is sadly no sneak peek review of the various outcomes; it comes always down to a decision you have to make in good faith with what you know and what you feel in your heart at the time. Unfortunately, these decisions never get any easier.

At these kind of eye-watering fees, you are well within your rights to question the necessity having done what any responsible owner does and even gone beyond what many would do, seeing the distances involved. You are certainly not a bad owner for not wanting to operate, having seen a vet and exhausted your reasonable financial resources. Money does play a legitimate role once you get into super-vet territory as long as your boy is kept comfy in himself. You are in the kind of grey area where you have to balance out competing factors and important considerations. Where you place yourself is down to you; there is no right or wrong as long as it is not done for your own selfish desire or fears of loss - which you do not sound like.

PS: Guinea pigs don't have a concept of a set life expectancy; they measure their lives in happy todays. Concentrate on enrichment and making the best of every day you have him in your life, for however long so you can say goodbye with sadness but without any regrets over what ifs. A good life is not based on a certain length but how well the time has been lived.
I find that turning back the clock to zero and to see every day more as a special gift helps me with piggies that have got bad news - whether that is just a few days, weeks or even a year... Those memories you create in this time are the ones that stay with you and that you can warm your heart over when you are feeling low in years to come; knowing that you have given your piggies what they wanted most out of life and having had the privilege to provide and share their happiness.
Here are some ideas: Enrichment Ideas for Guinea Pigs

 

[PB&U]

Thank you so much for the kind and thoughtful reply. Reading what you had to say is making me feel more comfortable and less guilty with the prospect of choosing not to do the surgery. The financial and logistical aspects would be challenging, but even taking that out of the picture, I think it would be a lot to put Pinto through with the surgery and recovery, as well as the potential many back and fourth visits to the vet.

I purchased Pinto from a pet store (along with my 2 other pigs before I realized there are SO many pigs in need of adoption, and pet store purchases just contribute to the problem). Pinto had been there for about 8 months in one of the plastic/glass enclosures. He was almost a year when I got him. He was a big (compared to the babies) white Abyssinian, that loved staying in his pigloo, he was all by himself and nobody seemed interested in him. When I first picked him up his nails were completely overgrown, and I wonder if his health problems were kicked off by the lack of good care when he was young. I asked for a discount on his price, I payed $17.50. I would’ve gladly payed full price, but being pretty broke at the time, and already having my other 2 pigs, every penny counted.

When we got him home he was popcorning in our laps, just so happy to be out of that pet store and to finally get some much needed love. He has such a big personality and just continues to love life, even despite his rough start. Sorry to write a novel! But thinking about this has really made me realize your point that guinea pigs don’t look at life expectancy, but rather at happy days. He has been through so much, and thankfully he is doing well now. But I don’t want to put him through more “bad days” and the stress of the surgery and everything it entails. He has lived a good life, and every day with him is a gift as you said, and now I want to focus on providing him the medicines/treatments to keep him comfortable, and doing my best to make every day a happy day for him

Thank you also for linking that article you wrote, it was very helpful and gave me some great ideas to implement!

 

[eileen]

Whatever decision you make is the right one.it really shines through how much you love him.i had a guinea pig that had chronic problems with an ear infection,that a rescue did not treat.my vet stated he could have a ct scan and ear op at £2000.i decided against the surgery as he managed well with his head tilt,and we gave antibiotics.He lived a happy 5 years.i send you my support.

 

[CV26]

I'm sorry to hear about Pinto. Whatever you choose you sound like a very caring owner and you'll be doing the best for him no matter what.

My boys had a persistent URI since they were born. I got them from a breeder and although I should have walked away, I couldn't leave them there.

I've spent four figures trying to 'cure' them and one option was serious surgery to try and clear the infection from their airways. However even the specialist vet wasn't certain this would work.

I opted for long term antibiotics. We've tried to stop them occasionally but they always quickly relapse.

They went through a lot in their first 6 months of life but when they're on Baytril they're just like normal pigs. They won't stop eating or yelling at me for food, they popcorn and do zoomies and they're both really sociable piggies now.

It's been a little over a year on Baytril and they're about 1.5years old. As they had the problem from birth I don't know what time I'll ultimately have with them. But I do know they seem to be happy and if they start telling me that it's time, I'll make a new call.

 

[VickiA]

I’m so sorry that you are in this position, but rest assured, whatever your decision, it’s clear how much you love this little piggy.

When it comes to complex surgery in piggies, I always take a step back to look at the bigger picture, including the financial cost of the surgery itself but also the physical and emotional cost to me in terms of time involved in travel, post op care and recovery, night feeds, ability to work while caring for a sick piggy, impact on my family etc…. As well as the likelihood of success of the surgery etc. I have at times decided not to have further treatment or surgery but to opt for treatments to keep a piggy comfortable. And as long as I reach a decision I can live with, then that is the right decision for me. I hope this helps a little.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much for the kind and thoughtful reply. Reading what you had to say is making me feel more comfortable and less guilty with the prospect of choosing not to do the surgery. The financial and logistical aspects would be challenging, but even taking that out of the picture, I think it would be a lot to put Pinto through with the surgery and recovery, as well as the potential many back and fourth visits to the vet.

I purchased Pinto from a pet store (along with my 2 other pigs before I realized there are SO many pigs in need of adoption, and pet store purchases just contribute to the problem). Pinto had been there for about 8 months in one of the plastic/glass enclosures. He was almost a year when I got him. He was a big (compared to the babies) white Abyssinian, that loved staying in his pigloo, he was all by himself and nobody seemed interested in him. When I first picked him up his nails were completely overgrown, and I wonder if his health problems were kicked off by the lack of good care when he was young. I asked for a discount on his price, I payed $17.50. I would’ve gladly payed full price, but being pretty broke at the time, and already having my other 2 pigs, every penny counted.

When we got him home he was popcorning in our laps, just so happy to be out of that pet store and to finally get some much needed love. He has such a big personality and just continues to love life, even despite his rough start. Sorry to write a novel! But thinking about this has really made me realize your point that guinea pigs don’t look at life expectancy, but rather at happy days. He has been through so much, and thankfully he is doing well now. But I don’t want to put him through more “bad days” and the stress of the surgery and everything it entails. He has lived a good life, and every day with him is a gift as you said, and now I want to focus on providing him the medicines/treatments to keep him comfortable, and doing my best to make every day a happy day for him

Thank you also for linking that article you wrote, it was very helpful and gave me some great ideas to implement!

Committing to a major operation and a potential rat-tail of complications/slow recovery is not as straight forward as you think; you need to have the resources both in time and financial back-up to look after a piggy round the clock if needed. Once you get on the rollercoaster you can't just get off, so the reward/commitment ratio must be right.
As a long term owner, you have to look at the bigger picture in each case and work out all the factors to to see whether they add up for you or not; and they do not always. I have had both piggies operated and in other cases decided to just let them live out their lives. In the end, you have to go with what feels right for you and what you can live with best in the long term. It is always a leap of faith but there is not a straight forward answer once you have covered elementary vet care that will cure the easily curable illnesses and infections, and ensure that your piggy is free of pain.

Once you get to the sharp end of illness (which may hopefully still be a long way away), I have also written several guides that cover the end of life in a practical and sensitive way - from looking after old/frail piggies, terminal illness, severe illness support to the body closing down (natural death by multiple organ failure) and euthanasia considerations. They do include ethical aspects and questions that all good owners come up against to help them work out what way is best for them without being judgmental. It also includes a human grieving guide and tips/resources how to support any children as the death of a pet is often the first time we come into direct contact with death and are not braced or prepared for the actual experience.
- Caring for Older Piggies and Facing the End - A practical and supportive information collection (contains some useful and practical advice on caring for the frailer citizens of any age once they get less mobile and active)
- Death, Dying, Terminal Illness; Human Grieving and Bereaved Companions: Information and Support for Owners and Their Children

You may find our much more comprehensive and extensive practical information resource (which I think is one of the largest around at this moment; but then this still lively forum has been going for 15 years and a number of us are going back much further as owners) very helpful and interesting but you are alway welcome to ask any questions you have in our Care sections and may also enjoy our friendly and supportive community in the Chat sections where we talk about our beloved ones and post pictures and copy videos across that have been uploaded on another platform in a public setting, if you feel that you would like to share your love for your precious boy with people who totally get it. It is our forum ethos to be a friendly and supportive community.

You may want to bookmark all the links in this post, have a browse, read what you find interesting and then re-read at need: Getting Started - New Owners' Most Helpful Guides

 

[Bill & Ted]

Which ever decision you make, we are all supportive of you here. You will make the right decision because you know him best

 

[Rubysue]

I think you already made up your mind and I think I would do the same. Leave him on antibiotics longterm. We don't have Guinea Pig vets here either and not everyone has the means or a basket full of money under their mattress. Do what works for you.

 

[Merab]

Sorry that you are in such a difficult situation but what shines through is your love for Pinto.
It’s obvious that only want the best for him.

You know Pinto best and you will make the best decision for him because you are going with your heart.

Hugs

 

[PB&U]

Thank you so much everyone for your kindness, support, and advice. It’s really helped me so much with this decision to hear you say there is no “right or wrong”, and that it’s ok choosing to not do the surgery, when it’s in the best interest of your pig as well as what’s reasonable for your own situation and well being.

With that being said, I’ve decided I won’t be doing the surgery. Pinto is doing well now, and I’m looking forward to enjoying every day with him, and making him as happy and comfortable as possible! I’m sure he and my other two pigs will enjoy being spoiled even further

Thank you again everyone. I registered to the forum with this post on my mind, but I will definitely be sticking around as this is really a great community and a valuable resource!

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I very much believe that just because we can, doesn’t always mean we should!

We currently have a guinea pig with a large internal lump. Teddy sees the vet regularly, for his dental issues, and the lump is monitored. Teddy seems oblivious to it and at the age of 6 years we would not consider surgery.

 

[Betsy]

Thank you so much everyone for your kindness, support, and advice. It’s really helped me so much with this decision to hear you say there is no “right or wrong”, and that it’s ok choosing to not do the surgery, when it’s in the best interest of your pig as well as what’s reasonable for your own situation and well being.

With that being said, I’ve decided I won’t be doing the surgery. Pinto is doing well now, and I’m looking forward to enjoying every day with him, and making him as happy and comfortable as possible! I’m sure he and my other two pigs will enjoy being spoiled even further

Thank you again everyone. I registered to the forum with this post on my mind, but I will definitely be sticking around as this is really a great community and a valuable resource!

Remember, Pinto doesn't know that anything is wrong. He will just bimble around doing his normal bimbly piggy stuff until he can't anymore. Make lots of happy memories. Be happy with your decision that you have made and that it is the best for Pinto and the best for you. Can we see some pigtures please? We love pigtures!

 

[Merab]

I’m pleased that you are sticking around and that you feel comfortable with your decision.
We will always be here for you .
Please enjoy the forum as well as finding support.
We do like to have fun.

 

[PB&U]

Remember, Pinto doesn't know that anything is wrong. He will just bimble around doing his normal bimbly piggy stuff until he can't anymore. Make lots of happy memories. Be happy with your decision that you have made and that it is the best for Pinto and the best for you. Can we see some pigtures please? We love pigtures!

Here’s a couple of him enjoying some snacks

 

[Merab]

He’s so

 

[Brist1cm]

Hello PB&U, I'm in the SAME boat, but my sow is much younger. I am freaking out and would like to hear more about your case to maybe reassure me. I am new to this forum, but I wonder if we can chat privately? Unsure if that's possible.

 

[Merab]

Hello PB&U, I'm in the SAME boat, but my sow is much younger. I am freaking out and would like to hear more about your case to maybe reassure me. I am new to this forum, but I wonder if we can chat privately? Unsure if that's possible.

I suggest that you start a new thread for your situation.
This is an older thread so your question may get overlooked, plus it will avoid confusion.
The health experts on the forum monitor new threads so you will get the support and advice you need.

 

[Wiebke]

Hello PB&U, I'm in the SAME boat, but my sow is much younger. I am freaking out and would like to hear more about your case to maybe reassure me. I am new to this forum, but I wonder if we can chat privately? Unsure if that's possible.

Hi and welcome

Sorry, our messaging facility is not enabled for new members. Please also be aware that this a historic thread from a member that has not posted again.

Please open your own thread in this section where you will get personalised feedback and support from other forum members. We kindly ask our member to not revive old threads as this usually causes more confusion than it helps.

 

[PB&U]

Hello PB&U, I'm in the SAME boat, but my sow is much younger. I am freaking out and would like to hear more about your case to maybe reassure me. I am new to this forum, but I wonder if we can chat privately? Unsure if that's possible.

I’m sorry to hear you are dealing with something similar I’d be happy to chat with you further, feel free to send me a message or what info I should contact you at

 

[Wiebke]

I’m sorry to hear you are dealing with something similar I’d be happy to chat with you further, feel free to send me a message or what info I should contact you at

Hi

Can I please remind our members to not post private contact information in a public place that can be seen by anyone and spare the admin team the need to remove it for their own protection. Neither of you have enough posts to message yet.

We are a friendly place and the team is working hard to provice a space where respectful and supportive discussions on any guinea pig aspects can happen on the open forum. We also ask our members to please start a new threat for any new case and keep all discussions on that particular piggy and case to that one thread.