Introducing two separate sows to a group - advice needed.

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rachelsharp

rachelsharp

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I have just adopted two young sows from two different rescues - one from Layla at NEGPR, and later I was offered another young girl from a rescue I occasionally volunteer at. Both are now living side by side in a c&c cage with a divider.

I have the plan of introducing these two to my two existing girls and my young boar that are living together at the moment. What is the best way to go about this? Should I introduce the two individual sows to each other first, then the pair of them to the group? Or do I put both single girls straight in with the group?

I am also concerned about one of my older girls in particular during the introduction. My two girls are almost 5, will it be quite stressful for them? I have read some bits and pieces about sorting out the hierarchy, and whether this will result in scuffles. Is that to be expected?

Having introduced my young boy Rufus to them it was easy as could be, and I think it seems things could be more difficult with girls. I just want to get it right and cause the least stress possible for all involved (including me!) Xx
 
Ok, so I've just introduced my two single girls to each other. There was a lot of what I imagine is teeth chattering and more importantly, lots of them furiously trying to get at each other, jumping around in circles and fur flying. They're moving so fast I can't tell if they're trying to bite each other or just giving warning lunges. Is this normal? :{ It would happen for about ten seconds at a time a few times then a bit of a stalemate until it began again. I think this is normal if not a little difficult of them. At what point does it get too much?

At the moment they are both lying down on top of a big scrunched up towel, one on one side, one on the other and they are lazing around a bit and they do look relaxed but I can tell that they're both aware of each other being near by.

Should I leave them together overnight if they are like this? They are in my bedroom but I hate the thought of them fighting and not being able to get away from each other if they want. x
 
That does sound a little aggressive for a meeting. If blood is drawn (scratches on the nose or ears in my experience are normal if you've got two particularly feisty girls) then you need to split them up. It can take a while for them to settle down after a meeting so what I'd do is watch them for as long as you can tonight and if the fighting starts again then you need to reassess if you feel comfortable or not leaving them.

Generally you know after 30 mins whether it's going to work that time, but every case is different and you might need to wait quite a bit longer for them to settle. Keep watching them for the next couple of hours. :)
 
I would separate and give them more supervised time, preferably in big chunks.

Alternatively, I would introduce all piggies together on neutral ground and clean and rearrange the cage before you put them all together. That may absorb both youngsters not hitting it off too well.
 
Ok so it's been about an hour since they were put together. Just after I posted they spent about 20 minutes sleeping right next to each other, at one point on top of each other. There's been no more fighting since then but some teeth chattering from one pig. The other pig is very submissive and retreats as soon as she hears this. It seems much better - is this a good sign? I am still going to supervise them for another few hours and may separate them either before bed or in the morning as I don't want to risk any problems while I'm at work. What do you think? X
 
It seems to be going in the right direction. I have had success with a similar piggy by giving it a separate night after a day full of this when bonding her with the big group under my kitchen table; the second day only needed a relatively short time on neutral ground at first before I could move them into the freshly cleaned out shared cage. But you can leave them together if necessary, provided you have two hideys and two bowls for them; the worst should be over. It looks like they have already sorted who is top and who is bottom.
 
That's good! You've got a dominant piggy (the chattering one) and the submissive sow isn't trying to take her on for position so once the dominant piggy realises that the other little lady isn't going to challenge her then she'll settle. She may always chatter. Personally if it carries on like it is now then I would be tempted to keep them together. As they are in your room if something happens you'll probably hear it. If you separate them you'll have to go through this again, possibly more than once, to cement the bond again.

From what you've said the dominant one does sound like she has a fiesty streak in her, so I would advise caution when the time comes to introducing them to your herd. As Wiebke said, you'll need a neutral area, quite large so they can get away if needs be. I used my Kitchen floor for most of my introductions. If you've got a top sow in your mini herd who is fairly dominant you might get some clashes between them, too, so be careful seeing as how they are older ladies.

If you're doubting whether they would mix and you can keep them separate, that might be the way to go? :)

Fingers crossed your piggies stay settled with each other! Maybe give them some yummy veggies or fresh hay (plenty so they don't feel the need to fight over it!) they can bond over through the night. :)
 
I just checked the thread and since my last post the girls have had a few more scuffles, definitely not as bad as before but I've decided to separate them for the night to give them a break and also so I'm not worrying when I'm at work tomorrow.

Thanks for all the advice! I've decided the best bet is to introduce them all on the weekend and as you've both said it might be best they all bond then. Both my older girls are very laid back, I've never seen an assertive side to them, maybe over veg and that's it so hopefully Lily the new feisty one won't cause too much trouble and my boar will hopefully mediate the whole situation slightly and keep his girls in check. It is strange that Lily is causing so much trouble because she lived in quite a large herd when Layla had her, but I suppose it's more intense when it's one on one.

My younger submissive girl Mabel I think is very eager to make friends as she was kept alone until now so I think she's getting on Lily's nerves a bit at the moment.

I guess time will tell, I'll get them all in a big space on the weekend and see how that goes. I'd really love to have a larger group and go from three to six (I have another pig reserved from NEGPR as she's pregnant at the moment and will follow soon). Although, if needs be I could keep separate pigs, I couldn't part with them now!

Again, thanks for the advice. I'll update this on the weekend when the big introduction happens xx
 
ok so the introductions for all pigs happened tonight! the five of them have been together since about 8.30pm, and it went surprisingly well.

the two new girls were in the c&c side by side, so i had to put them on separate sofas while i set the it up on the floor of my front room. it took about 15 minutes to do, setting up boxes, filling it with hay etc and for most of the time both pigs stayed hidden in their snuggle sacks. that was until i put my three exisiting pigs into the completed c&c and i left the room to clean out a litter tray to fill with hay. i came back to find little ginger piggy had launched herself from the sofa into the cage in what could have been a very dangerous kamikaze jump! thankfully she was ok and had made herself at home with the rest of the pigs. i then put my other new pig in.

they've been togeether for about two hours now and it seems to have gone well. there was no fighting like there had been with the two new girls when they were put together, nothing even close. infact, lily who was the agressive of the two new girls has been very calm in the group. (i think she's a herd pig rather than a double, she has been kept in a large herd at the rescue which she seems to suit.)

rufus my boy is of course over the moon with the two new girls, particulary as they are a bit closer to his age range (his existing two girls are five, where is he is about 11 months) and has been alternating between chasing the two new girls. how much is too much for this? should i keep an eye on this? they haven't let him mount them and there's no signs it happening but they don't seem to have put him in his place as much as my older girls.

i have noticed that one of my older girls poppy is being particularly assertive. it's mainly just chasing, no fighting, and the two new girls seem to mainly being avoiding confrontation which i presume is good?

i'm hoping things settle down, but does this sound quite normal and promising?
it seems that everyone is sniffing and investigating each other, even my two older girls are snuffing each other.

because of space i've had to set it up in the front room, so i'll be spending the night on the sofa to keep an eye on things. all going well, would it be safe to put them all back in the hutch tomorrow evening?

here's a little photo of the five of them, spot the pigs!

IMG00918-20111203-2115.jpg


xx
 
Another update - girls are now getting along great. Here's another photo:

IMG00952-20111205-2301.jpg


Clockwise from top left is Poppy, Meg (in hay tray), Rufus, Lily, and the big ginger bum is Mablel.

xx
 
Great news indeed. Often it is just a matter of giving them time to work things through, unless there is real aggression.
 
I'm really grateful for your advice of introducing them all at the same time. I really don't think that Lily is a one-on-one pig and it really wasn't working with just Mablel. As soon as I introduced them all she was so laid back and calm and seems very at ease with Mabel. There have been brief moments of 'I'm top pig' but it made me realise that things just weren't right with the first introduction. Thanks for the advice, I'm really relieved that these two have fitted in well with the group. xx
 
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