Introducing 2 babies to our 2 one year olds (all sows)

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StannyUK

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Hi guys,
Ive introduced you to Moet and Shiraz before but my fiancee and I have been naughty and bought two new baby girls (I will post pics later). We have a massive run so thought it best to let them have some playtime together and everything seemed perfectly fine.

When it came to bedtime there seems to be a bit of co-motion. We have bought a new larger hutch to house all 4 so they can bond but we are wondering if some squealling and banging is usual behaviour as the older 2 establish themselves as leaders... We really dont want to seperate them but if needs must then we will.

Could you experts offer some advice to us on what we should do? Do we just let nature takes it course or should we be very cautious?

Thanks in advance for your advice! ;)
 
are there all girls?

i have six girls holly and meggie live togther and amber,ruby poppy and lilly live togther but there go in the run all togther and get on fine i can put them in it all day and there fine
 
Yes all girls. Mocha and Latte are the babies and everyone was perfectly fine in the run. The babies went straight upto their new big step sisters and seemed to bond. However, in the hutch there is disharmony.

Is this normal until the older 2 get use to the scent or is it cases where they just dont see eye to eye?
 
Was it the first time the older two had been put in the hutch? Was there fresh bedding and was it completely neutral ground for all  pigs? I don't have any experience with sows but when I bonded my boars I made sure that they met on neutral ground and I completely scrubbed out the cage to reove all scents and then when I put everything back I moved it all around so it looked like a completely new cage to the one my original boar was used to. A little bit of scuffling is to be expected I think, they will just be sorting out dominance. Just keep an eye out for any bullying, make sure everyone is getting their share of the food and that theres no major disagreements.
I know the pet shop said they were girls but have you checked for yourself? There's quite a few cases on here where people have had missexed pigs from shops and ended up with a couple of pregnant girlies
 
Thanks for that, the part about moving everything around was given as advice when we bought them but didnt think it was THAT important but we will address that RIGHT NOW.

Its a brand new cage with all new bedding etc so its completely neutral ground. We havent checked they are all girls but its from a highly recommended place where we got the other two...We will double check thou O0

Some other questions:

a) is sniffing around the bum area common? The elders are sniffing the babies

b) Is there always a pack leader or is it of a commune?

c) I know it sounds silly but could it turn nasty (i.e a fight to the death :'( )
 
Lol, yup sniffing round the bum is normal. I think that sows also mount other sows as a show of dominance if their cage mates aren't toeing the line. There is normally a pack leader but I think it's only in the sense that she gets the choice of food first and if she wants a bed another pig has then the other pig had better shift. Although sometimes it can be very hard to spot and it will probably look like there is no set boss pig. My boys are a bit like this, Jack is boss but he lets Jasper rumble round him and steal bits of his food. He only reminds him of his status if Jasper tries to mount him or Jack decides the hayloft is his and his only.

There is a very slim chance it could turn nasty and when I say slim I mean really slim. It's very rare that pigs will fight to the death. They may inflict some damage on each other if they get into a proper fight but I've never heard a death story. It's pretty much the males that are more likely to fight than females I think. Just keep an eye on them, they will most likely settle down in an hour or two and they'll be fine.
 
Cheers G+J, we have checked their sex and both are little ladys :D

The two older ones seemed disorientated and alsmost seemed to stand off against each other. Is this because when it was the 2 of them, their wasnt a clear leader and now both are vying for the top spot?

Sorry to keep askign questions but we really want this to work so the new babies can adjust. There are some big squeeks coming from the bed and I'm fightnig temptation to keep interferring as I think its all best left alone.... Maybe I should put them all on Jerry Springer? :P
 
Oh good, glad to hear theres no boys in drag :P Your original girls may well be a bit disorientated. They're n a new house and they have two new housemates, bound to be a bit strange to begin with. They're probably just re-deciding who's going to be boss of their new house and also of the new babies. I doubt they will grumble about it for long, they will no doubt settle back into their old routine once they've got over the excitement.
Don't worry about the big squeeks too much, it's more the aggressive teeth chattering that will cause a problem. You're right though it's best to leave them to sort it out. They say the only thing to separte for is severe bullying where one pig isn't being allowed to feed, rolling ball of fur fights, or bloodshed. Must admit I found it stressful introducing my boys and they were relatively calm with each other.
Sure they will sort it out soon. Lol at Jerry Springer, can you imagine... but she got more parsley than I did! That was totally her fault she had more nose scratches and she always gets the best pigloo! ;D
 
;D The two original girls will already know their place with each other, however, sometimes adding new members to the herd can make them recess postions in the herd. The bum sniffing like gus and jack has said is completely normal, so is a little bit of sizing up and what not. Providing none of the behaviour looks to threatening, aggressive, one is bully another etc they should be fine. Also like jack and gus has said guineas can fight and cause serious injury to one another, however, they would rather not if they don't have to. Girls can be as bad and sometimes worst then boys, so you will have to keep an eye on them e.g. body language, noises, not interacting with one another. Also like jack and gus has said there is a pack leader but they will only show who is boss when other members get out of line, they want to be where one of the others are, when they are ill to make sure the others don't sense their weakness etc. The pecking order can change over time due to such things as illness, age, new members being introduced, elder members passing on etc. Keep sticking your nose in the hutch, if they seem happy in each others presence they should be fine. Make sure there are plenty of hideouts and two of everything. If you see they are picking on a certain member or a fight is brewing separate them straight away. Hope this helps. O0
 
CC & G+J thank you very much the pair of you.

My fiancee checked on them a little while ago and the two babies are side by side next to the bedroom door and Shiraz is laying parallel to them, almost like she is protecting them.

I think Shiraz has won dominance as we observed a "highest nose" thing where who ever gets their nose highest in the air is the leader LOL

Moet is sitting in the "lounge" and is chewing on some hay so I hope thats her just taking time out and not being excluded.....

I will keep you posted and add some pictures of the new arrivals the "coffee sisters" along side their big sisters "the booze brigade" :smitten:
 
;D Can't wait to see pictures. Moet sitting on her own may mean a few things including she has lost her position, has gained the highest order, she is taking a rest from all the excitement/ getting to know the other two etc. They sound like they will be fine, I dare say if anything was going to happen it would have happened by now, but keep a close eye on them. O0
 
I'm a bit worried :( Moet was sitting in the "lounge" and one of the babies decided to come say hello, moet jumped a bit and chased her into the bed room and my financee swears she heard what sounded like teeth chattering. I read up on this and apparantly in very small doses its part of the process for declaring domination.

Too much of this however is BAD behaviour... I'm sitting in my den typing this wanting to go outside and check on them but I think they all need their sleep. I'm up at dawn to check they are all ok cos its driving me 98) :'(

I will start a new post (cos i like doing it :P) in the appropriate section to show off my too new fuzzballs.. god i hope they are OK.....
 
It's normal, that is just her establishing she is the boss, however, keep an eye on them. Let us know how they are tomorrow. O0
 
been out cleaning the garage and keeping an eye on them and there is lots of squealing and running around....

The owner of the place where we got them did suggest rubbing a little talcum powder into all 4 to neutralise their scent. Anyone heard of this? I would dare do it unless some of you guys had heard of it....
 
do you have extra hideouts in the hutch, so they can hide away by themselves?
 
StannyUK said:
The owner of the place where we got them did suggest rubbing a little talcum powder into all 4 to neutralise their scent. Anyone heard of this? I would dare do it unless some of you guys had heard of it....
Click to expand...

I have heard of this but I wouldn't ever do it. Provding there is no teeth chatting or behaviour which you feel is to spiteful I wouldn't worry, they will be like this for the first couple of days. The one who is making the most noise may just be a drama queen. One of my guineas when she was younger (she doesn't do it as much now) use to run around the cage screaming her head of all because her mother had just nudge her out the way. 98) O0
 
well weve just had a 2 hour bonding session in the lounge usnig a paddling pool (easy to mop up their mess) They seemed to get very well and there would be the occasional little spat but it seems the older two (Moet and Shiraz) are fighting for top spot. I think Moet has it (she won the "highest nose in the air" competition that piggies do so shiraz bosses the babies around who as rightly said might just be making a whole load of noise over nothing.

Even though they all moved into the new hutch yesterday we decided to completely clear it out, spray with the hutch disenfectant and remake it with stuff in a place. Where the older 2 use to poo in the older cage is now where the foodbowl is, hopefully this will make them thik its not their cage.....

There is nothing in the cage to hide in. Plenty of hay in the sleeping area and sawdust in the "lounge". I will post a pic of the cage when it stops throwing it down!

Here are some pics :)

DSCF0515.jpg


DSCF0510.jpg
 
Awww, they all look reasonably happy. In a couple of days they will be settled and all of them will know their places. :smitten: O0
 
it would be better to have extra hideouts, so the little ones can get away from the older piggies if they need to.
 
any suggestions? I read somewhere 3 bricks piled upis a good idea. Personally I want them to be exposed to the others for long as possible so the bond forms quicker. If they have somewhere to hide then one of them might opt to stay away from the group and I just dont want that to happen.....
 
StannyUK said:
well weve just had a 2 hour bonding session in the lounge usnig a paddling pool (easy to mop up their mess) They seemed to get very well and there would be the occasional little spat but it seems the older two (Moet and Shiraz) are fighting for top spot. I think Moet has it (she won the "highest nose in the air" competition that piggies do so shiraz bosses the babies around who as rightly said might just be making a whole load of noise over nothing.

Even though they all moved into the new hutch yesterday we decided to completely clear it out, spray with the hutch disenfectant and remake it with stuff in a place. Where the older 2 use to poo in the older cage is now where the foodbowl is, hopefully this will make them thik its not their cage.....

There is nothing in the cage to hide in. Plenty of hay in the sleeping area and sawdust in the "lounge". I will post a pic of the cage when it stops throwing it down!

Here are some pics :)

DSCF0515.jpg


DSCF0510.jpg
Click to expand...


Awww bless you got them a bouncy castle lol ;D
 
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