Introduced Sows Today - Not Sure If It's Working

[SallyG]

Hi everyone,

We had 2 guinea pigs and 1 sadly died in March. Our remaining girl, Bertha, is 6 and a half and I was worried about stressing her out with a new young pig. Anyway we decided that it would be better if she had a friend so spoke to the rescue centre who said she had a lovely mum and baby girl.

We picked up the girls this morning, mum (Sugar) is about 1 year, baby (Pepper) is 7 weeks, and we put them together at the rescue centre all seemed good. Sniffing, licking, a bit of ignoring each other but fine. They went out in the hutch/run when we got home and again seemed fine, Bertha and Sugar mainly ignored each other, but Pepper went between the 2 of them.
It started raining so we brought them in, they've got a 4x3 C&C, and now's there's trouble.

Bertha and Sugar are showing lots of dominance behaviours, teeth chattering, yawning and putting the hackles up, rumblestrutting, chasing, nipping, head butting.

There's been a couple of short chases, which has resulted in a a little bit of fur in each others mouths, but I wouldn't say it was a bite, more of a grabbing of a bit of fur (there are no wounds on the pigs).

Pepper is squeaking really loud at times when Bertha is near her but not doing anything to her at all.

Right now Bertha and Pepper are sat next to each other, Bertha sniffing her bum and ears but nothing else is happening. Sugar is across the other side of the cage, laying down really low in the hay.

I've read your advice on here and taken out some of the hidey holes, so they now just have 2, in the back corners, they are steps, so are open on the four sides (lots of escape routes!).

We have to go out in an hour, I don't think I dare leave them together just in case...

Any advice much appreciated. I've never introduced guinea pigs before so I've no idea what is normal dominance behaviour or not...

 

[SallyG]

Also, it seems that Bertha is the boss, Sugar started to walk across the cage Bertha started teeth chattering and she went straight back to the opposite corner, so if I seperate them when I go out who should be taken out? I don't want to upset the balance by taking the wrong one out of the cage?

 

[Wiebke]

Hi everyone,

We had 2 guinea pigs and 1 sadly died in March. Our remaining girl, Bertha, is 6 and a half and I was worried about stressing her out with a new young pig. Anyway we decided that it would be better if she had a friend so spoke to the rescue centre who said she had a lovely mum and baby girl.

We picked up the girls this morning, mum (Sugar) is about 1 year, baby (Pepper) is 7 weeks, and we put them together at the rescue centre all seemed good. Sniffing, licking, a bit of ignoring each other but fine. They went out in the hutch/run when we got home and again seemed fine, Bertha and Sugar mainly ignored each other, but Pepper went between the 2 of them.
It started raining so we brought them in, they've got a 4x3 C&C, and now's there's trouble.

Bertha and Sugar are showing lots of dominance behaviours, teeth chattering, yawning and putting the hackles up, rumblestrutting, chasing, nipping, head butting.

There's been a couple of short chases, which has resulted in a a little bit of fur in each others mouths, but I wouldn't say it was a bite, more of a grabbing of a bit of fur (there are no wounds on the pigs).

Pepper is squeaking really loud at times when Bertha is near her but not doing anything to her at all.

Right now Bertha and Pepper are sat next to each other, Bertha sniffing her bum and ears but nothing else is happening. Sugar is across the other side of the cage, laying down really low in the hay.

I've read your advice on here and taken out some of the hidey holes, so they now just have 2, in the back corners, they are steps, so are open on the four sides (lots of escape routes!).

We have to go out in an hour, I don't think I dare leave them together just in case...

Any advice much appreciated. I've never introduced guinea pigs before so I've no idea what is normal dominance behaviour or not...

If you are not around to see whether mum and Bertha can sort out which of them is coming top, please separate and continue tomorrow. The loud squeaking is submission squealing; it translates as: "don;t be mean to me, I am no competition for you!" It is usually very effective.
If you can, please take the time to read through this thread here to understand the dynamics. Dominance is established in rounds with rests in between. You have to see whether the girls can come to an agreement as to who is coming top and whether they loser is then OK with that or not in the coming days. If tension is still very high after yet another long session or sky rockets right at the start, then I would call off the bonding as in my experience it is not going to end in a peaceful and happy long term bond. It means that both girls are interested in company, but need to come top and need a submissive companion.
Illustrated Bonding Behaviours And Dynamics

 

[Wiebke]

Split them into their original pairings. if they have sorted the main issue, then a renewed bonding on neutral ground should be somewhat calmer and more relaxed.

 

[SallyG]

Thanks so much for your advice.

I think they are having a rest period right now, all 3 pigs are sat (seperately) looking very sleepy and chilled.
Does it matter which I take out, Bertha or mum and baby?

Sugar just slowly and carefully walked up to Bertha but Bertha immediately chattered so she ran off again.
How would Sugar show she is submissive, how would Bertha know?

Thanks

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks so much for your advice.

I think they are having a rest period right now, all 3 pigs are sat (seperately) looking very sleepy and chilled.
Does it matter which I take out, Bertha or mum and baby?

Sugar just slowly and carefully walked up to Bertha but Bertha immediately chattered so she ran off again.
How would Sugar show she is submissive, how would Bertha know?

Thanks

it is up to Bertha - at the moment, she wants Sugar to keep the distance. You always keep any babies with mum and generally split into the groups piggies have come into the bonding. let her calm down. If you can, simply put a grid divider into the bonding pen (if necessary cable-tied or tied together to fit any panels in), so they can continue to interact through the bars overnight.

 

[SallyG]

Ahhh brill great idea, I'll divide the cage, I hadn't thought of that, you've gotta love C&C! I was worrying about where to put them

Thanks so much

 

[SallyG]

Sorry, 1 more question (for now!) would you suggest we hold them later? We held them for a bit before we put them in the cage and it was fine, everyone seemed very happy to be held and stroked, I think I read on here it would be good to hold Bertha and Sugar together?

 

[Wiebke]

Ahhh brill great idea, I'll divide the cage, I hadn't thought of that, you've gotta love C&C! I was worrying about where to put them

Thanks so much

it has worked for me on occasion...

 

[Swissgreys]

I am not an expert, but we had a similar sounding bonding a few weeks ago.
I was horrified and terrified in equal measure at the nipping (mouths full of hair), teeth chattering, puffing up, and rumble strutting that went on.
I spent an entire afternoon perched on the edge of the sofa wearing oven gloves in case I had to intervene.

But I also realised it was mostly my problem, and not theirs - they were just sorting things out, and if they seriously wanted to hurt each otehr then they would, and although I would say it took 4 - 5 full days for everyone to eventually really settle, they did in the end.

But then I also had @Wiebke guiding me through it, which helped a lot.

I would avoid holding them for now, as firstly they probably don't need any additional stress, and secondly I pretty much left them to it until I was happy that they were settled and had worked through their issues.
Normally ours have run time daily and are handled at least once a day, but we left them in their C&C for a full five days (after the initial bonding took place on neutral territory).

Just one further tip.
Ours have been happily settled for over 3 weeks now, and yesterday the whole thing flared up again for about 1 hour - teeth chattering, fur flying - but this time between the new addition (Oreo - 3 months) and our non dominant sow (Lucy).
Last time the issues were with the new addition and the dominant sow.

I thought about why Lucy (who has always been deeply protective of Oreo) would suddenly 'fight' with her, and decided it was probably because Oreo might have challenged her. And today Oreo had her first proper season (at least the first one acknowledged by our boar iyswim).
So just expect things to settle down, but don't panic over the odd flare up either.
Oreo's season seems to be over (based on the lack of reaction from our boar) and she and Lucy are best freinds again.

Complicated little creatures aren't they!

 

[Wiebke]

Sorry, 1 more question (for now!) would you suggest we hold them later? We held them for a bit before we put them in the cage and it was fine, everyone seemed very happy to be held and stroked, I think I read on here it would be good to hold Bertha and Sugar together?

Please don't until the dominance phase is over and they have settled down together. That can take up to two weeks. As tempting as it is for you, bonding is a stressful time for the piggies, and you do not want to add any more stress than absolutely necessary. In that phase, you want to let them sort out all the piggy stuff and reap the rewards of a happily settled piggy afterwards when they are more relaxed.

 

[SallyG]

Hi,

Thanks again for your help yesterday, Swissgreys I know exactly what you mean, I was so nervous yesterday I felt sick!

All seems much better, I rang the lady from the rescue centre and when she called back she said to hold the pigs as much as possible so they did sit with us all evening last night (our internet went down so I'm only just reading your reply's now). I'll leave the pigs to settle for the next few day.

All seems good, there is still a bit of teeth chattering from Bertha, I think she has definitely declared herself the boss, but then when we walk into the room they all run and sit together so there's no lasting dislike I don't think!

We've noticed that the baby, Pepper, often follows Bertha now which we take as a good sign. Just hoping her mum doesn't get jealous of this?

I think all will be fine, it's our first experience of bonding pigs so I didn't really know what to expect.

So you would advise to leave them alone for a few days, keeping an on them of course, and as long as no blood is drawn, a bit of teeth chattering etc. is normal?

Thanks
x

 

[Wiebke]

Hi,

Thanks again for your help yesterday, Swissgreys I know exactly what you mean, I was so nervous yesterday I felt sick!

All seems much better, I rang the lady from the rescue centre and when she called back she said to hold the pigs as much as possible so they did sit with us all evening last night (our internet went down so I'm only just reading your reply's now). I'll leave the pigs to settle for the next few day.

All seems good, there is still a bit of teeth chattering from Bertha, I think she has definitely declared herself the boss, but then when we walk into the room they all run and sit together so there's no lasting dislike I don't think!

We've noticed that the baby, Pepper, often follows Bertha now which we take as a good sign. Just hoping her mum doesn't get jealous of this?

I think all will be fine, it's our first experience of bonding pigs so I didn't really know what to expect.

So you would advise to leave them alone for a few days, keeping an on them of course, and as long as no blood is drawn, a bit of teeth chattering etc. is normal?

Thanks
x

Please leave them together and let them sort themselves out. When you transfer the girls to the freshly made up and ideally somewhat rearranged cage, please make sure that you have only got any hideys/tunnels/carboard boxes etc. with two exits in there (one per piggy), so no girl can be cornered or "locked in" while the dominance phase is still ongoing; that will avoid the biggest potential flashpoint.
I would also recommend to serve veg and pellets 2-3 times a day in portions that can be eaten in one go in a bowl per piggy, spaced well apart at first. Chucking underpiggies out of hideys and off food bowls is normal part of dominance, as is nipping etc. Dominance percolates down the hierarchy.
Sow Behaviour
Illustrated Bonding Behaviours And Dynamics

Once the stressy bit of the bonding is over and the girls are much more relaxed with each other, you can then handle them if you wish to. How soon and how much depends on whether you want a mainly cuddly pet or mainly a guinea pig with its own social behaviour.
How To Understand Guinea Pig Instincts And Speak Piggy Body Language
How To Pick Up And Weigh Your Guinea Pig

Don't worry about Pepper. Her behaviour is typical for youngsters; they attach themselves to an adult to learn the ropes, and most adults are perfectly fine with having a little vocal shadow. You may even see the odd popcorn from the adult.