introduced a new rescue and blood was drawn

MirabelMaud

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advice please pig community!
I had a happy herd of 4 ladies, lost one Dec 2022 (old age) a second in March (elongated tooth root, had xrays/treatment and she died 10 days later) and April the last of my old girls passed away. That left me with one traumatised and very lonely girl who is nearly 5 and was spayed last October due to massive ovarian cysts. She shut down very quickly so within three days I adopted a rescue pig, Rosa, 6 years old (hutch mate died and surrendered to a rescue) so before they met I did a full hutch clean (vinegar and sodium bicarb in hot water scrubbed every inch and left to dry), every bowl/blanket water bottle laundered/washed, rearranged all the 'furniture' put them in together and with minimal shennanigans they bonded (there was bum sniffing/ circling, teeth chattering, rumble strutting/ hackles up all instigated by the newcomer!) but within a few hours a truce was formed and now they are best buds. On wednesday I got home from work to find my neighbour on the doorstep in tears to tell me one of his pigs was found dead in the hutch that morning and would I take the other one as he didn't want her to be alone. I immediately collected Willow and brought her home, put her in her own hutch with fleecy bed option, big box of hay, pellets and water and left her to decompress for a few hours. She is in the same room with my two girls and can hear and see them. She has never been handled and while her previous owners are very well intentioned and loved their pigs they dont really know pigs. She had been neglected, ie no hay, left out in run all day with no shade in the heat, very frightened of humans. She was very scared of being picked up but I gave her the once over to find what looked like ulcerated cornea and very long twisted nails on back legs. I managed to cut her nails, clean her eye and put in viscotears until vet could see her on Friday. She was happy to eat from my hands and took metacam readily from syrings and some CC just to be on the safe side. She was pooping so clearly eating but not moving around much. Saw vet Friday who confirmed eye issue and started her on topical anti b and said to continue pain relief. It was a stressful day for her as my exotics vet is 40 min drive each way. he confirmed her sex (female) have her an MOT and said apart from the eye she was in remarkably good shape for her age and recommended I get introductions started asap.
So today (saturday) I set up a brand new ENORMOUS run in the garden (3m x 2m) put in hay, cardboard boxes with many escape holes cut out water bottles and fresh food. then put all three of them in, then armed with a towel and some oven gloves...watched. For the first half hour they didnt notice each other then there was some bum sniffing and circling, a bit of chasing squealing and mounting, but in between they were all eating the grass and seemed quite relaxed. About two hours in I saw Meredith and Willow yawning which I understand is a sign of aggression. There had been no nose to nose or snorting or getting up on hind legs, the all of a sudden Willow made a beeline for Meredith and they were locked together in a screaming tumbling ball of fur and teeth. I threw a towel over and separated them and ended the session. Meredith was bleeding from bite wounds on her nose cheek and chin. I carefully examined Rosa and Willow and found no wounds. I returned Willow to her own hutch, cleaned Merediths wounds with saline and returned her and Rosa to their own hutch. They live indoors in modified hutches with large extensions accessed by shallow ramps (carpeted with sides on). They are all eating, drinking pooping etc...but I am reluctant to repeat the experiment as someone did get hurt. never seen anything like it and I have bonded 12 pigs over the years and noone has ever drawn blood. So what do I do now? help/advice please.
 
I’m sorry to hear this.
I would leave them to live as neighbours now, side by side so they can interact between the bars but not have to share a territory. Such a fight is unusual in sows and it was probably borne out of fear.
 
I think Willow is very fearful , she has dealt with a lot in four days. I am reluctant to try this again....but might Willow bond with a different pig? I am loathe to condemn her to live alone but unsure what else to do than as you say have them side by side?
 
It’s going to come down to whether she can get over her fear and find a compatible friend. You could certainly try to date her with other piggies and see how things go.

Living side by side is not being condemned to a life alone. It’s the best thing for a piggy who just won’t accept company.
I have two boars who were a pair originally but had a fight and now live side by side very happily. They interact through the bars with each other (and also with my other boar pair) without having to try to share a territory.

How old is she?

Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
Moody Guinea Pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour
 
Thank you, I am always being told that side by side is not enough, but your boys have which is so good to know. Willow is 6 years old and my neighbours had her and her sister from babyhood onwards
 
and could you tell me how to organise pig dates for her so that she might find a friend? i am happy to keep her and give her time to heal/adjust if that is the right thing to do?
 
Side by side certainly is good enough and in such cases absolutely is the option you’d want to take to provide the best for her.
There are many of us who have side by side piggies on here.

and could you tell me how to organise pig dates for her so that she might find a friend? i am happy to keep her and give her time to heal/adjust if that is the right thing to do?

The safest thing is to get in touch with rescue centres. They can help in sorting out dates with any single sows they may have to find a compatible companion. That way if a bonding fails, you aren’t then left with two single piggies and needing yet more cages.

Being older some sows can sometimes be less accepting is new company and would prefer to just live side by side with others.
 
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/guinea-pig-forum-recommended-rescues.196734/
I have linked in the list of Forum approved rescues for you. It would be lovely if you could find her a new friend but it's not always easy or possible.
I have and have had side by side piggies who have lived very happy and full lives. Mine have ended up alone due to the death of a friend or a falling out. As much as I love my bonded pairs (I have boars) sometimes a new bond is not possible. I have noticed for fear aggressive and timid piggies in particular, side by side living takes the fear and stress out of life and they are much more relaxed.
 
Thank you, I am always being told that side by side is not enough, but your boys have which is so good to know. Willow is 6 years old and my neighbours had her and her sister from babyhood onwards

Older sows often prefer to have their own territory but still have interaction through the bars, even if it is mostly territorial behaviour. I currently have my own 6 years old widow who lost her own closely bonded bestie just before Christmas very unexpectedly and has since then emphatically refused to accept any of my other old ladies, gentlest middle aged sows or timid baby girls, not to mention dominance humping my totally shocked non-aggressive boar out of his mind.

It is not ideal but if several bondings have not come off it is by far the best of all the alternatives - they still get the stimulation and interaction through the bars with their own kind so it is not quite like being a total single; just a kind of half-single. Fallen-out boar pairs often have a still bonded can't live together but can't live apart relationship and will grieve when their mate next door passes away.
 
Side by side certainly is good enough and in such cases absolutely is the option you’d want to take to provide the best for her.
There are many of us who have side by side piggies on here.



The safest thing is to get in touch with rescue centres. They can help in sorting out dates with any single sows they may have to find a compatible companion. That way if a bonding fails, you aren’t then left with two single piggies and needing yet more cages.

Being older some sows can sometimes be less accepting is new company and would prefer to just live side by side with others.
thank you that is so reassuring to hear that so many of you have side by side pigs who are happy. However if I can find a rescue who would attempt to bond her with another sow then I will try that route and if all else fails she has a forever home here 'next door' to my girls
 
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/guinea-pig-forum-recommended-rescues.196734/
I have linked in the list of Forum approved rescues for you. It would be lovely if you could find her a new friend but it's not always easy or possible.
I have and have had side by side piggies who have lived very happy and full lives. Mine have ended up alone due to the death of a friend or a falling out. As much as I love my bonded pairs (I have boars) sometimes a new bond is not possible. I have noticed for fear aggressive and timid piggies in particular, side by side living takes the fear and stress out of life and they are much more relaxed.
from what I know of Willow she was the submissive one in her previous pairing and due to not having been handled at all is quite fearful. When I say handled I dont 'pet' my girls or have lots of laptime cuddles as they dont seem to particularly enjoy it but I pick them up gently everyday to check their teeth/nails/nipples/bottoms/groom them/give any meds/CC feeds/weekly weigh ins and they are very relaxed even my newer rescue Rosa who was very fearful of being handled is now happy to be picked up and groomed without running away and shrieking (it took about 10 weeks to get there). Also I am not sure if Willow can hear well as she does not seem to respond to sounds, but that just could be what I call "Terror Mousing" where they are so shut down they dont seem to react to anything. Taking the fear and stress out of her life is my goal however I can achieve that
 
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/guinea-pig-forum-recommended-rescues.196734/
I have linked in the list of Forum approved rescues for you. It would be lovely if you could find her a new friend but it's not always easy or possible.
I have and have had side by side piggies who have lived very happy and full lives. Mine have ended up alone due to the death of a friend or a falling out. As much as I love my bonded pairs (I have boars) sometimes a new bond is not possible. I have noticed for fear aggressive and timid piggies in particular, side by side living takes the fear and stress out of life and they are much more relaxed.
thank you I have contacted ARC in Richmond, This Little Piggy are not taking surrenders as they are at capacity and Bobtails Rescue is now closed, there are no others near me and Richmond is a good hours drive away. Lets hope ARC can help, they dont have a centre instead all of their surrendered pigs are in foster homes so maybe someone will take Willow for a trial date.....til then she can live side by side and I am taking extra good care of her. She is now feeding happily on my lap and getting some good care and attention
 
I would give her some time to get used to the new situation and to get the stress hormones that must be high at the moment out off her system again.
I think it's great that you're willing to find her a new companion. In Austria, the animal law requires piggies not to be kept alone, so we try to bond all lone piggies. But sometimes it just doesn't work out and sometimes it's not helpful to rush things.

So I would advice you to give her a little break until you try the next bonding. Since she seems to be happy on her own at the moment, just let her settle in and feel more comfortable.
I don't think that a second try at bonding with your girls would work out, because it's pretty hard (nearly impossible) to bond piggies that have decided not to like each other. And Meredith will not be willing to give her a second chance, even if Willow reacts in a sollte new-piggy-way next time around.
But as long as Willow hasn't calmed down from everything that's been going on in her life these last few days (loosing her life-long partner, loosing her home - even though I'm sure she is much better off living with you, it's still a dramatic change - getting to know new humans, being taken to the vet, meeting piggies that probably look very different from her old partner and are certainly smelling and acting differently). That's a lot for any piggy and especially an older one.

I hope Meredith's wounds will heal quickly. Maybe get her checked by your vet if the wounds aren't only on the surface. She might need antibiotics.
 
I would give her some time to get used to the new situation and to get the stress hormones that must be high at the moment out off her system again.
I think it's great that you're willing to find her a new companion. In Austria, the animal law requires piggies not to be kept alone, so we try to bond all lone piggies. But sometimes it just doesn't work out and sometimes it's not helpful to rush things.

So I would advice you to give her a little break until you try the next bonding. Since she seems to be happy on her own at the moment, just let her settle in and feel more comfortable.
I don't think that a second try at bonding with your girls would work out, because it's pretty hard (nearly impossible) to bond piggies that have decided not to like each other. And Meredith will not be willing to give her a second chance, even if Willow reacts in a sollte new-piggy-way next time around.
But as long as Willow hasn't calmed down from everything that's been going on in her life these last few days (loosing her life-long partner, loosing her home - even though I'm sure she is much better off living with you, it's still a dramatic change - getting to know new humans, being taken to the vet, meeting piggies that probably look very different from her old partner and are certainly smelling and acting differently). That's a lot for any piggy and especially an older one.

I hope Meredith's wounds will heal quickly. Maybe get her checked by your vet if the wounds aren't only on the surface. She might need antibiotics.
 
So Willow is not doing so well, she is very 'shut down' and only eating if hand fed. I put her out on the lawn this morning and she just hid under the box and this morning her little legs and bottom were all soaked with wee so she had obviously not moved all night. I gave her a bath so she is comfortable. She has lost some weight which means she is not eating enough so I am hand feeding her as often as I canánd giving CC. Her ulcerated cornea is fully healed.
So I think the time has come to try to find her a friend. It can't be my two the first attempt ended in a bloody battle, and my Meredith is quite frail and has some health problems, the stress would be too much for her. Both my girls are very quiet and doing tiny poos so I am having to support feed them atm too....
I have had a long chat with my friend who works for a rescue in London and she has offered to take her for a week to try some 'dates' with other lonley pigs. She is very experienced with bonding pigs and has a very high success rate so if ANYONE can get Willow a friend it is her. IF the bonding fails then Willow will come back to me and live as a solo pig side by side with mine but she deserves a chance to find a friend.
So the plan as it stands is this: if Willow continues to deteriorate I will drive her up to London late Wednesday evening and leave her with my friend for a week. If she starts to hold her own I will delay the trip til Sunday to give Willow some more destress time, but if she continues to decline I need to act sooner rather than later.
I am very sad (not to mention exhausted and having to fit this all in around my job...I am self employed so cannot afford to take time off) as I am already emotionally invested in Willow but I must do what is best for her, and I think this is the best plan, and really hope you agree!
 
I’m sorry to hear things aren’t going well.
The plan sounds to be a good one - You are absolutely doing the best thing for her.
Keep us posted on how it goes.
 
I'm very sorry that Willow doesn't want to eat.
Poor you, having to support feed all three of them. I hope the situatin will get better soon.
 
I'm very sorry that Willow doesn't want to eat.
Poor you, having to support feed all three of them. I hope the situatin will get better soon.
Thank you for your support it's been a rough few days but this evening things took a turn for the better! Willow came out of her bed of her own volition to explore a bit. I got her on to my lap and she demolished half a strawberry two grapes a good chunk of bell pepper and a chunk of cucumber ! Meredith and Rosa have settled and are eating and relaxed. Such a shame the intro failed....I wonder if I had let Willow settle for a few more days it might have worked
 
Thank you for your support it's been a rough few days but this evening things took a turn for the better! Willow came out of her bed of her own volition to explore a bit. I got her on to my lap and she demolished half a strawberry two grapes a good chunk of bell pepper and a chunk of cucumber ! Meredith and Rosa have settled and are eating and relaxed. Such a shame the intro failed....I wonder if I had let Willow settle for a few more days it might have worked
You never know with piggies.
It's much easier to explain why something might have gone wrong than knowing how to act best in the beginning.
Maybe Willow started on the wrong paw because she was stressed.
But maybe Willow and Meredith just didn't like each other.
 
You never know with piggies.
It's much easier to explain why something might have gone wrong than knowing how to act best in the beginning.
Maybe Willow started on the wrong paw because she was stressed.
But maybe Willow and Meredith just didn't like each other.
True, Meredith has been bonded successfully with three other pigs in her life and is usually the placid one. So who knows...this morning Willow has TRASHED her house she has been in the fleecy bed under the fleecy bed poos EVERYWHERE whereas up til now she has not really moved. I have moved the 'speed dating' to Sunday now to give her a few more days to find her feet, will keep you posted. THANK YOU FOR THE SUPPORT ALL OF YOU you have kept me going through a really tough week xx
 
So Willow has been with me a week now and what a transformation! Yesterday I sectioned off my new 'Omlet' run (2m x 4m x 2m high so I can get in with them to rearrange there things and pick them up easily to get them home) so Willow has a third of it to herself and can interact with her new neighbours safely through a grid. Result:Willow was out mowing the lawn and sniffing the air and did a few stately runs up and down (she is 6 years old after all!) but the reaction from my two was interesting: Meredith (who was in the fight with her) completely avoided the "Berlin Wall" as I call the divide (which is 1m high and super secure) and if she got wind of Willow she legged it in the opposite direction at high speed than sat in her hidey doing big yawms to show Willow her big teeth, but little ROSA? I rescued Rosa 3 months ago, she is also 6 years old and she has settled in beautifully Well! She patrolled that border with an impressive display of rumble strutting and teeth chattering, but then went off to mow the lawn so there was interest from all parties but the partition meant they could all get on with the important business of mowing the lawn. Willow loved her hidey ( a folded up towel with a fleece teepee over the top) and moved between that, her tunnel and her upended carboard box. It is the most relaxed I have seen her and she chose to stay right next to where I was sitting and mow the lawn near me which made my heart soar as you can imagine. Also she vocalised for the first time (not had a sound from her so far...) little excited squeaks and a few nervous complaining noises when she spotted Rosa doing her angry cockatiel impression. I now have their indoor enclosures at right angles so the two gilrs playpen is adjacent to Willows living area so again they can interact safely through a grid. This morning they all seemed super chilled , and for the first time Willow was curled up on TOP of her mound of hay like a proper happy coffee bean and took a cherry tomatoe and a piece of kale from my fingertips without running away or panicking and had breakfast in bed. I am happy to report that Willow has trashed her house again, so had a busy night and I am going to put the girls out for their morning mow while it is nice and cool (5.30am here in Guildford) I bring them back in at about 10am and pop them back out 4pm til about 7pm and this seems to work well in this hot weather. I am so impressed with the new run, not only is it HUGE but has a fox safety measure of a wire flange that extends out from the bottom about 50cm which is tent pegged to the ground so they cant dig under. I would never say any structure is "Fox Proof" as the poor foxes have had their territory taken by us humans and are desperate for food, but as I work largely from home and the girls are only ever out in the day I am either outside with them working from my garden cabin or keeping an eye from the kitchen. We are due to go to London on Sunday for a trial bonding session.....but part of me is now thinking if she is settled and happy and continues to gain confidence, and given her age, do I put her through two hours in the car and the stress of more meetings? Because if they fail she is coming back with me to live as a side by side pig. And if it succeeds...I will be coming home without her...
 
The decision obviously needs to be yours. What I can say is that living side by side is perfectly fine for piggies with a failed bonding. She is getting interaction while having her own territory.
You would not be doing her a disservice by not going to bonding meetings if she is now happy.
 
The decision obviously needs to be yours. What I can say is that living side by side is perfectly fine for piggies with a failed bonding. She is getting interaction while having her own territory.
You would not be doing her a disservice by not going to bonding meetings if she is now happy.
Thank you. I really want the best for this old girl and all my instincts are saying keep her here and let her live out her days in the lap of luxury. I live alone so it is a quiet house and she gets to live indoors with no other animals or children. Thank you for supporting me. So hard when your emotions are involved to keep a clear head
 
If she's happy as she is and you are having second thoughts I would give it time and not rush into anything. I'm a great believer in following instincts.
 
If she is happy, then everything is just fine.
You don't have to force anything. Every atempt to bond her would be more stress.
 
If she's happy as she is and you are having second thoughts I would give it time and not rush into anything. I'm a great believer in following instincts.
THANK YOU my instincts are that right now what she does not need is more stress so have postponed bonding session on Sunday x
 
Well it's about nine weeks since Willow moved in and in the end I cancelled the " speed dating" in London as my instinct was it was all going to be to stressful. Willows weight has gone up from 912g to 988g she gets lawn time morning and evening and socialises with her neighbour pigs through the fence in the giant outdoor run. They spend a lot of time close to each other by the fence and Willow gets excited and runs up and down the fence hooting when she first sees the other pigs. During the day they are in two separate modified hutches with adjacent " playpens" and it seems to be working. I can pick Willow up now without too much drama and she runs towards me when they are outside. She is loving her veggies and nuggets and finally relaxed and sleeps in her hay curled up like a coffee bean. As I mentioned she might not be able to hear and she sleeps SO deeply she gives me a heart attack at least once a day! So this is my experience of having side by side pigs and I think it was the best outcome for an elderly fearful pig.
 
Well it's about nine weeks since Willow moved in and in the end I cancelled the " speed dating" in London as my instinct was it was all going to be to stressful. Willows weight has gone up from 912g to 988g she gets lawn time morning and evening and socialises with her neighbour pigs through the fence in the giant outdoor run. They spend a lot of time close to each other by the fence and Willow gets excited and runs up and down the fence hooting when she first sees the other pigs. During the day they are in two separate modified hutches with adjacent " playpens" and it seems to be working. I can pick Willow up now without too much drama and she runs towards me when they are outside. She is loving her veggies and nuggets and finally relaxed and sleeps in her hay curled up like a coffee bean. As I mentioned she might not be able to hear and she sleeps SO deeply she gives me a heart attack at least once a day! So this is my experience of having side by side pigs and I think it was the best outcome for an elderly fearful pig.

It’s great to hear she is doing well!
 
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