Intermittent whimpering during urination/defecation

[BaaaaL]

Dear all!

I am turning to you now for advice about a ~3 year old sow with an extremely mysterious case of intermittent whimpering/crying during urination/defecation. The symptoms started last summer(ish), but they subsided within a couple of weeks, with the vet (cavy-savvy) not finding anything out of the ordinary. The symptoms returned on Christmas day, and she had blood in her urine. It was diagnosed as cystitis (after they excluded stones with an x-ray) and she got some anti-inflammatory drugs and Chloramphenicol. The symptoms subsided, but again, returned later. We again went back to the vet, and she advised that an ultrasound controlled cystocentesis be done, and the urine sample be sent for culture to see whether it is some special bacteria resistant to normal first line antibiotics. Not surprisingly, the culture came back all negative. The vet said that he had been seeing more and more cases of idiopathic (sterile) cystitis in guinea pigs, and that it is generally exacerbated by stress. The symptoms seemed to go away again, but returned today after a visit to the ophtalmologist yesterday (she has KCS). Up to this point, I have heard her cry about 6 or 7 times today, luckily, there does not seem to be any blood in her urine this time (knock on wood.....). We also had her stool sent for a culture after a brief episode of loose stools last week, and it was (again) all negative, no harmful bacteria, no fungi, no parasites, nothing. So I am quite at my wits' end. Does anyone have experience with similar cases?

 

[Piggies&buns]

We have several members on here whose piggies suffer with sterile cystitis. I’m not one of them, but somebody will be along with their own personal experience of managing it soon!
I hope you can bring your piggies symptoms under control but I do know that it isn’t necessarily an easy path and it can take a long time and it may come back in waves over many months.
It would be helpful to know what diet you are feeding your piggy, as it may be that there could be some changes which may help.

 

[BaaaaL]

We have several members on here whose piggies suffer with sterile cystitis. I’m not one of them, but somebody will be along with their own personal experience of managing it soon!
I hope you can bring your piggies symptoms under control but I do know that it isn’t necessarily an easy path and it can take a long time and it may come back in waves over many months.
It would be helpful to know what diet you are feeding your piggy, as it may be that there could be some changes which may help.

Hi!

Thanks for your reply! I am currently feeding both of my piggies unlimited hay, Versele Laga Cavia Complete pellets, and Trovet GP pellets mixed together. Both pellets are of a high quality, and lack grains/harmful materials. I also try to feed them fresh grass/dandelion leaves frequently, and whenever the weather permits.

 

[rudent]

Hiya, I have a guinea pig with persistent cystitis although mine also has an infection. Is your pig's urine quite sludgy? Often, sludge and crystals in the urine can irritate the lining of the bladder which causes the swelling. Did your vet check to see if she's retaining urine? My sow has severe urine retention issues which makes her cystitis worse, as the urine she holds in becomes more concentrated & sludgy over time. They would have done this by pressing on her bladder to see if she was holding a lot of urine in there.

 

[rudent]

I should add that with sows, sometimes they have small stones that they are able to eventually pass due to their urethras being wider than boars'. That can be the cause behind a severe episode of squeaking/blood which suddenly clears up. If this is the case, though, the urine would be sludgy too.

 

[BaaaaL]

Hiya, I have a guinea pig with persistent cystitis although mine also has an infection. Is your pig's urine quite sludgy? Often, sludge and crystals in the urine can irritate the lining of the bladder which causes the swelling. Did your vet check to see if she's retaining urine? My sow has severe urine retention issues which makes her cystitis worse, as the urine she holds in becomes more concentrated & sludgy over time. They would have done this by pressing on her bladder to see if she was holding a lot of urine in there.

Yeah, they routinely press on her bladder, but she never seemed to be retaining urine. Sludge does seem to be a bit of an issue, during the last x-ray the vet said she sees some sludge in her bladder, and some sludge is also visible on her genitalia when she spends some time lying in urine stained bedding, and it has time to dry. I am trying to give her more greens and some additional water through probiotics to make sure she has sufficient water intake. She has also received potassium citrate solution for the sludge (it is acidic, and helps dissolve some smaller stones/sludge. It seemed to work, but it may have been cleared up eventually on itself)

 

[Piggies&buns]

Ensure the pellets are kept strictly limited to one tablespoon per day. It is also useful to filter drinking water. Filtering water and keeping pellets strictly limited will reduced calcium intake greatly. Even low calcium pellets will contribute a high calcium intake into the diet, particularly if overfed.
Dandelions are high in calcium so it is not advisable to feed them too regularly. A wet diet can really help flush the bladder through.

 

[BaaaaL]

Ensure the pellets are kept strictly limited to one tablespoon per day. It is also useful to filter drinking water. Filtering water and keeping pellets strictly limited will reduced calcium intake greatly. Even low calcium pellets will contribute a high calcium intake into the diet, particularly if overfed.
Dandelions are high in calcium so it is not advisable to feed them too regularly. A wet diet can really help flush the bladder through.

Thanks, I'm definitely trying that! Although reducing pellet intake may be difficult, as the piggy we are talking about is prone to bouts of not eating, and losing weight occassionally (long story, remnanty from an old URI), and I always keep some of the Trovet pellets in her bowl so that she eats by herself. But I will definitely try to see where we end up if I try to cut back on the amount. I will also cut back on the dandelions, and try to keep her fed with fresh, green grass, that is her favourite, so it won't be an issue. What do you recommend for filtering water?

 

[rudent]

Yeah, they routinely press on her bladder, but she never seemed to be retaining urine. Sludge does seem to be a bit of an issue, during the last x-ray the vet said she sees some sludge in her bladder, and some sludge is also visible on her genitalia when she spends some time lying in urine stained bedding, and it has time to dry. I am trying to give her more greens and some additional water through probiotics to make sure she has sufficient water intake. She has also received potassium citrate solution for the sludge (it is acidic, and helps dissolve some smaller stones/sludge. It seemed to work, but it may have been cleared up eventually on itself)

That's great that potassium citrate is working for you -- I never had much luck with it myself and my guinea pigs h a t e it. :') Something that helped me with reducing sludge was getting an ion exchange filter for the pigs' water, so you might want to try that depending on how much calcium is in your tap water. I use these filters with an Amazon basics water filter jug. The best thing is just to increase water intake as much as possible -- probiotics (Biolapis) have helped me with that as the pigs love the taste, so I just put a sachet in their water bottle every day and they guzzle it. You can also take a look at balancing the calcium:phosphorus ratio of her veggies as that's been known to reduce sludge, but it's mostly water and pellets that have the most calcium. Some people actually remove pellets from their pigs' diets altogether and use various fresh veggies to provide the vitamins people usually rely on pellets for.
Sorry for the overload of info -- feel free to try any, all, or none of these things! :^)

 

[Piggies&buns]

Is she getting plenty of hay? It needs to be 80% of their daily food intake.
I understand your situation and reason for leaving pellets in her bowl, but that in itself isn’t particularly healthy

 

[BaaaaL]

Is she getting plenty of hay? It needs to be 80% of their daily food intake.
I understand your situation and reason for leaving pellets in her bowl, but that in itself isn’t particularly healthy

Yeah, she alays has plenty of hay in front of her, most of the time I buy two different packets so that she can pick what she likes. She is not a big fan though, and prefers fresh grass, which I try to provide as much as possible. She does eat a sufficient amount of hay though. I don't feed any vegetables or fruits, due to the low fibre content.

 

[BaaaaL]

That's great that potassium citrate is working for you -- I never had much luck with it myself and my guinea pigs h a t e it. :') Something that helped me with reducing sludge was getting an ion exchange filter for the pigs' water, so you might want to try that depending on how much calcium is in your tap water. I use these filters with an Amazon basics water filter jug. The best thing is just to increase water intake as much as possible -- probiotics (Biolapis) have helped me with that as the pigs love the taste, so I just put a sachet in their water bottle every day and they guzzle it. You can also take a look at balancing the calcium:phosphorus ratio of her veggies as that's been known to reduce sludge, but it's mostly water and pellets that have the most calcium. Some people actually remove pellets from their pigs' diets altogether and use various fresh veggies to provide the vitamins people usually rely on pellets for.
Sorry for the overload of info -- feel free to try any, all, or none of these things! :^)

Yeah, I try to increase her daily water intake by using Biolapis/Agroferm as well. I don't put it in her bottle though, as Biolapis tends to ferment very quickly.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yeah, she alays has plenty of hay in front of her, most of the time I buy two different packets so that she can pick what she likes. She is not a big fan though, and prefers fresh grass, which I try to provide as much as possible. She does eat a sufficient amount of hay though. I don't feed any vegetables or fruits, due to the low fibre content.

While grass and hay is the best thing for them, It really is advisable to feed some leafy veg. Low fibre content of any veg won’t matter if she is eating hay. Veg is supplemental, not a main part of the diet and Having some veg will help with the water intake and help keep her bladder flushed

Fruit isn’t advisable to be fed regularly in any event

 

[BaaaaL]

While grass and hay is the best thing for them, It really is advisable to feed some leafy veg. Low fibre content of any veg won’t matter if she is eating hay. Veg is supplemental, not a main part of the diet and Having some veg will help with the water intake and help keep her bladder flushed

Fruit isn’t advisable to be fed regularly in any event

Thanks! I am always somewhat skeptical of vegetables, as the recommendation differs across countries from what I experience. Exotic vets in Hungary routinely recommend not feeding vegetables due to piggies' gut flora being fundamentally designed to handle fiber. The general consensus seems to be that feeding too much vegetables can lead to piggies eating less hay. I will try feeding some vegetables though, I believe it will have a bigger benefit than it will have negative effects.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I can confirm that eating veg does not contribute to eating less hay, certainly not for my piggies! Mine get through approx 10kg of hay per month!
You aim for around 50g/1 cup of veg per day. It really isn’t very much but it ensures a good mix of nutrients is provided.

The advice of this country is that their diet is unlimited hay (but that it should be 80% of their daily food intake), one cup of a mix of vegetables per day and one tablespoon of pellets per day. Veg is supplementary, and pellets are the least important part of their diet and they should not have constant access to them. Too many pellets contribute to health issues.

This is our diet guide below

Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

 

[BaaaaL]

I can confirm that eating veg does not contribute to eating less hay, certainly not for my piggies! Mine get through approx 10kg of hay per month!
You aim for around 50g/1 cup of veg per day. It really isn’t very much but it ensures a good mix of nutrients is provided.

The advice of this country is that their diet is unlimited hay (but that it should be 80% of their daily food intake), one cup of a mix of vegetables per day and one tablespoon of pellets per day. Veg is supplementary, and pellets are the least important part of their diet and they should not have constant access to them. Too many pellets contribute to health issues.

This is our diet guide below

Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Thanks, much appreciated!

I am going to order a water filtering jug with tea-coffee filters (to remove excess minerals) on Monday, hopefully, we'll see some improvement from that as well.

 

[DMS260820]

My sow Dot has recently been going though this intermittent squeaking whilst peeing, I can answer some questions if you have any more. Mostly her experiences and symptoms. Not anything medical though,

We arenot out of the woods yet, but might be getting there. Its just the worst thing to deal with.

I'm watching out for high oxolate veg, such as spinach, limiting pellets to 1 tablespoon a day for both pigs (half each) . But that's because dot hogs them.

Filtering water

I will be changing to a natural pellet named, rosewood meadow menu, they are very natural, unlike some of the most well known brands.

 

[Wiebke]

Dear all!

I am turning to you now for advice about a ~3 year old sow with an extremely mysterious case of intermittent whimpering/crying during urination/defecation. The symptoms started last summer(ish), but they subsided within a couple of weeks, with the vet (cavy-savvy) not finding anything out of the ordinary. The symptoms returned on Christmas day, and she had blood in her urine. It was diagnosed as cystitis (after they excluded stones with an x-ray) and she got some anti-inflammatory drugs and Chloramphenicol. The symptoms subsided, but again, returned later. We again went back to the vet, and she advised that an ultrasound controlled cystocentesis be done, and the urine sample be sent for culture to see whether it is some special bacteria resistant to normal first line antibiotics. Not surprisingly, the culture came back all negative. The vet said that he had been seeing more and more cases of idiopathic (sterile) cystitis in guinea pigs, and that it is generally exacerbated by stress. The symptoms seemed to go away again, but returned today after a visit to the ophtalmologist yesterday (she has KCS). Up to this point, I have heard her cry about 6 or 7 times today, luckily, there does not seem to be any blood in her urine this time (knock on wood.....). We also had her stool sent for a culture after a brief episode of loose stools last week, and it was (again) all negative, no harmful bacteria, no fungi, no parasites, nothing. So I am quite at my wits' end. Does anyone have experience with similar cases?

Hi!

Over the last decade we have seen an increasing numbers of guinea pigs with sterile interstitial cystitis (i.e. non-bacterial bladder infection with regular flare ups that doesn't react/cannot be healed with antibiotics). It not well known outside vets that deal with guinea pigs on a very regular basis. It is usually diagnosed by default once all other potential problems in the urinary tract have been excluded that present with very similar symptoms.

Treatment follows roughly FSC (feline sterile cystitis) with mainly glucosamine (the walls in the urinary tract have a natural coating of glucosamine that prevent the corrosive urine from damaging any tissue) and an analgesic like metacam. According to the latest research, glucosamine seems to be key in managing the illness, which cannot be healed - if you are lucky, it will go away on its own eventually.
We recommend a glucosamine based cat food supplement like cystease capsules but any form of glucosamine will do. In very bad cases injections with cartrofen (a glucosamine based arthritis medication) have been shown to be effective in recent research but a canon as to the best way of treating with that has not yet established. It is currently still at the stage of individual vets trying it in an adhoc way. Their experiences will eventually feed in a more widespread and consistent approach.

Here is some more information: Links - Interstitial Cystitis - Guinea Lynx Records
When doing your own online research please adjust for the bias that you will get all the horror stories, the miracle cures (that don't work out) but not a lot of the majority of milder cases that can be managed quite well.

Sterile IC has unfortunately been carried into my piggy room again, so I currently have three sows who are presenting with acute flare ups; but on the whole it is on the mild side so cystease capsules (mixed with 2 ml of water and syringed 1 ml twice daily) plus metacam at need (more during an acute flare up) are perfectly enough.

My Nerys (the large piggy in my avatar picture) had IC for 3 years, then was totally free of any urinary tract problems for another 3 years and died from age related problem ad 8 years of age.

I hope that this helps you and your vet.