In desperate need of answers!

[Amber Marie]

Hello. I have a 1 1/2 year old male guinea pig (Charlie.) I recently got a 4 month old guinea pig (Phillip) to keep Charlie company. I quarantined Phillip for two weeks and then introduced them on neutral territory. This seemed to go fairly well, with some chin sniffing, bottom sniffing, and lots of popcorning from Charlie. Phillip seemed quite taken with Charlie, following him around and trying to lay beside him and cuddle. Charlie has always been extremely attached to me. He wheeks for about a half hour after I put him down and every time I had the guinea pigs on neutral territory, Charlie seemed more interested in getting me to pick him up then even noticing Phillip. I now have them in the same cage and am getting some alarming (but hopefully normal) behavior from Charlie. For about 3 days I had them together in the day and then put them back in separate cages at night. After realizing the error of my ways I have had them together constantly, day and night, for 5 days. Charlie is constantly purring when he sees Phillip, gets very tense in his legs and moves bottom from side to side. If Phillip walks past him and even brushes against him, Charlie spins around, ready to nip, although they have never fought. Charlie also seems to "stalk" Phillip, following him and ominously purring, like chasing him. He will also corner Phillip quite often, which results in shrieks from Phillip. At first he also was trying to guard both water bottles from Phillip but now that I have two in separate areas, it seems to be ok. I have two water bottles and two pigloos and two food bowls in the cage, but both boys eat out of both and go between the pigloos. I let it go at first because I figured it was normal dominance but I am now concerned because Phillip seems constantly terrified. He is obviously submissive as he has never once challenged Charlie, and he now constantly shrieks when he sees Charlie and either runs into a pigloo or backs into a corner, whether Charlie is paying attention to him or not, it just seems like the sight of Charlie frightens him. I am very stressed. I have seen many helpful posts on here but the one thing I have not seen is how long can I expect this establishing dominance ritual to last? Is there anything I can do to help, and how do I know that it will just not work out? How long should I wait to throw in the towel on getting them to bond?

 

[Wiebke]

Dominance lasts as long as it lasts - and that can take some time. However, by the sound of it you are actually in the very last stages of the dominance protocol that all piggies follow. It is now Philip's turn to have his say and he is making it very clear that he doesn't like being bullied like that.

Philip's behaviour is not unnormal for a very submissive youngster that is making it clear that he has a) got the message (that is what the shrieking means - it's not necessarily pain) and b) wants Charlie to stop behaving like a bully, please (that is what the running away is for). Hopefully, Charlie will accept Philip's messages soon and settle down, although you will probably get some bit of dominance behaviour daily.

If it is any consolation, my baby girl Telyn went through the same stages at first and earned her name (which means "harp" in Welsh) from being a little drama queen and not being able to shut up long after the big girls left off!

I hope that you have seen our boar behaviour thread:
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=28949

 

[Amber Marie]

Thanks for the reassurance. I am just trying to figure out things to do to possibly get Charlie to back off. I have read on the forum about some kind of wipes that will get rid of each of their scent? If I cannot locate any of these in pets stores where I live, do you think that bathing Phillip ( I bathed Charlie last week) would help? Any pointers I could get that would make this go smoother would help. Also, I have been noticing lots of emphasis on the size of the cages that males need. I have a 2x4 foot cage, with 2 pigloos, and 2 food bowls. I also have a guinea pig playpen that I put them in but the behavior seems to stay the same in there as well.

 

[Wiebke]

In short, any intervention of you will hinder rather than help. Dominance and their relationship is something that the guinea pigs have to work out for themselves. Unlike humans, they have to spell everything out in bold lettering where we humans can make do with just a hint. Because of that, things look a lot rougher to us than they are for a guinea pig who fully understands what is going on and plays by the rule book.

Right now, your boys at a stage where they have bonded but are working out how far Charlie can push Philip and how far Philip is allowing Charlie to push him. It IS the last stage of the bonding process, so once you are past that, that's it.

 

[Amber Marie]

Thank you so much. Even since reading this post, I have put them both in the playpen with some veggies and even though Charlie started nipping at him when Phillip was getting a little too close while eating, Phillip actually stood his ground and stood up for himself. I hope that Charlie lets Phillip stand up for himself and establish his own dominance, rather than provoke a fight. I feel much better now and thank you for the fast response. I don't know how my blood pressure and stress level would have done had I not had the reassurance for a while

 

[Wiebke]

Bonding for uninitiated is tough work!

It is now the underpiggy's turn to stand up for himself and the dominant piggy will usually accept that. You may find that Charlie is going to relax his personal space once he feels happy and no longer threatened in his new relationship.

Please keep an eye out when Philip comes into stroppy age from 3-4 months old and the hormones are playing up.

 

[pinkita]

i introduced my 11 week old piggie tony to a new 6 week old piggiecalled peter about 4 weeks ago and went through exactly the same things you have. tony and peter would both make rumbling noises to each other and chase each other as well as the bottom wiggling and stand off's etc etc..
now though they have calmed down and the chasing is only when they are playing together so I'm sure your two will calm down as long as they are both eating and sleeping together is always a good sign

 

[Amber Marie]

Mine do not sleep together and Phillip is very scared of Charlie and shrieks whenever he comes near him, let alone let him sleep beside him :p Charlie has been ok when they eat their veggies together, although if Phillip gets too close, he will nip and chase him away. I have received great advice and comforting reassurance that this is normal though and that they are almost through this phase, which is good for me because I'm not too sure how much more I could take! I had no idea how hard it would be to stand by and listen to one of them whimper and one of them be so mean, and to do nothing, but I do feel much better about the situation since finding this forum

 

[Amber Marie]

So it has been a little bit since I have been on here and I am disappointed again. Phillip finally looked like he was standing up for himself, he start nipping back a little, and they even had a fight, with no blood drawn thank god. But it hasn't done any good. Charlie doesn't seem to be accepting him even now that he knows he can't bully him. When they are in the cage he is even worse because it is smaller but I don't know what to do. When they travel with me, I need to take them in their cage. The cage is not tiny, it is about 2ft wide by 4ft long. If I put a wire separator in the cage so that they can still see each other and get used to sharing the same space, would that help at all or would that be considered separating and make things worse when they are together in the play pen?

 

[Wiebke]

I wouldn't separate unless they had a REAL fallout.

Please be aware that travelling and new surrounding can spark another bout of dominance - they will see it as new territory. It may be good if you had some mesh at the ready in case you will have to separate on very short notice in case there IS a bloody fight. Small scuffles can and do happen. Some big boys do noy like it when a plucky youngster is standing up to them and sulk quite a bit.