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IC vs stones (squeaking)

Scooter Pie

Scooter Pie

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My little one Kona is going to the vet tonight for xrays.

She's been treated for IC for a few months now, but I'm wondering if she might have stones.

There's more of a forceful pushing/grunting sound she's making, along with the gentle high pitched squeaking that seems to go along with IC.

The appointment is in about 12 hours 💖 Does anyone have any experiences to share?
 
Scooter Pie said:
My little one Kona is going to the vet tonight for xrays.

She's been treated for IC for a few months now, but I'm wondering if she might have stones.

There's more of a forceful pushing/grunting sound she's making, along with the gentle high pitched squeaking that seems to go along with IC.

The appointment is in about 12 hours 💖 Does anyone have any experiences to share?
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Hi

Only an x-ray can tell; especially if the stone is not in the bladder but in the urethra.

IC in itself usually doesn't cause stones but the symptoms and the pain of a strong IC flare and a stone can be very similar. If it is IC, I have found that doubling the glucosamine for a few days is more effective in getting on top of flare symptoms than just upping the metacam.

All the best.
 
Poor Kona. My Bear had the same symptoms, grunting and squeaking while trying to pee but never any blood present. The vets said his bladder was causing pain upon palpation but they couldn't feel stones. Bear had antibiotics and pain meds. Xrays showed nothing was visible but that night Bear passed some stones and cried out while passing them. I helped him by protruding his penis and removing the stones. That evening and the following day there were six stones in total. Three different vets didn't know what type of stones they were. I never knew what was wrong other than a sore bladder.
I really hope you get some answers, it's horrible not knowing what's wrong and what you can do to help. Please be aware that not all stones show up on Xray.

The picture shows the stones next to a 1ml syringe. The light colour ones were 'fresh' and the darker ones were passed earlier and had dried, shrunken in size and darkened in colour.

I wish you both all the best xx
 

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PerfectPiggyPaws said:
Poor Kona. My Bear had the same symptoms, grunting and squeaking while trying to pee but never any blood present. The vets said his bladder was causing pain upon palpation but they couldn't feel stones. Bear had antibiotics and pain meds. Xrays showed nothing was visible but that night Bear passed some stones and cried out while passing them. I helped him by protruding his penis and removing the stones. That evening and the following day there were six stones in total. Three different vets didn't know what type of stones they were. I never knew what was wrong other than a sore bladder.
I really hope you get some answers, it's horrible not knowing what's wrong and what you can do to help. Please be aware that not all stones show up on Xray.

The picture shows the stones next to a 1ml syringe. The light colour ones were 'fresh' and the darker ones were passed earlier and had dried, shrunken in size and darkened in colour.

I wish you both all the best xx
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Thank you so much. I'm glad I posted about it. I suspect Kona's cagemate had small/hard to detect stones this time a year ago. It didn't end well, but she had already been having issues for a full year before that. 💖

Our vet is awesome and actually wants to know what others experience are. She just started learning piggie care with Kona's cagemate as her first patient! Id like to share your post with her tonight.

Meanwhile I'll be stalking the bedding for signs of anything passing! Sometimes
the amount of noise she makes, it REALLY sounds like she's trying to push something out!
 
Wiebke said:
Hi

Only an x-ray can tell; especially if the stone is not in the bladder but in the urethra.

IC in itself usually doesn't cause stones but the symptoms and the pain of a strong IC flare and a stone can be very similar. If it is IC, I have found that doubling the glucosamine for a few days is more effective in getting on top of flare symptoms than just upping the metacam.

All the best.
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Thanks so much. I suspect maybe a small stone in the urethra. We will see. I have been upping her glucosamine for a while now. Meloxicam is .20ml once a day. Kona's about 950g little girl.
 
Scooter Pie said:
Thank you so much. I'm glad I posted about it. I suspect Kona's cagemate had small/hard to detect stones this time a year ago. It didn't end well, but she had already been having issues for a full year before that. 💖

Our vet is awesome and actually wants to know what others experience are. She just started learning piggie care with Kona's cagemate as her first patient! Id like to share your post with her tonight.

Meanwhile I'll be stalking the bedding for signs of anything passing! Sometimes
the amount of noise she makes, it REALLY sounds like she's trying to push something out!
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You're more than welcome to share my post and the picture. It didn't end well for my poor Bear either. He was struggling to poop so was given cisapride. He had one dose and gradually started moaning. To start with I thought it was his guts getting going but it got worse. Bear was definitely in pain so I called the emergency vets but he passed away in my arms on the way there. A side effect of cisapride is severe abdominal pain and seizures. Hope all of this helps your vet. My vet is always wanting to learn too.

Fortunately, I use padded fleece bedding so it was easy to keep an eye on what was being passed. Shavings and hay would be a nightmare to monitor.

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you at the vets and I hope Kona is okay
 
Thanks for the update. Hope you find out what's going on very soon. She's an absolute beauty 🥰 I love how they are stretching as far as possible - hoping for treats no doubt.
You have gorgeous piggies x
 
🥰🥰That's them waiting for my husband to give them their vitamin C cookie...he calls her "world's tallest pig" ☺️

Kona is really special. I got her about 2 1/2 years ago when one of my original two died. She had been alone at her previous home due to a death as well. When we adopted her she was under 700g and had self-barbered off all the fur she could reach due to loneliness 😭but bounced back when she bonded with my single girl.

I really want her around a lot longer 💖
 
She certainly is very tall... she's a model piggy :luv:

I don't think we ever have them long enough. We just have to love them and make every day as special as can be and then at least we know we've done everything we can to have made their lives the happiest it can be.

Poor baby, how sad that she was so lonely. She certainly looks amazing now so you've done a superb job at making her life the very best it can possibly be.

I really hope she is around a lot longer too, for you and your husband and also for her special little friend :hug:
 
I've not had an IC pig but I've seen posts which talk about thickened bladder walls or deposits of sludge lining the bladder which are different from actual stones. Maybe this is why the vet couldn't give you an answer straight off. I've had pretty large stones manually extracted from sow urethras and one girl passed her own after a painkilling injection and fluid bolus under the skin to make her pee (a lot) so there are options before the scary surgery route that lurks at the back of the mind. It's just trying to control the pain for your lovely girl until you can find out more x
George had pain as his bowels move because of his stone - fortunately this seems to have calmed down now. I can't even say pain when pooping as his impaction complicates things and the poops don't always appear! It's just something to bear in mind as you see her strain - is she struggling to squeeze out pee or is she pooping carefully past an inflamed bladder.
PerfectPiggyPaws said:
The picture shows the stones next to a 1ml syringe. The light colour ones were 'fresh' and the darker ones were passed earlier and had dried, shrunken in size and darkened in colour.
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I've never seen stones like that in my life. They are definitely not the normal sort of calcium stone I've seen in pigs. We need a people doctor on here who's seen some people stones - apparently we humans have more variety. I'm so sorry for the loss of Bear x
 
PerfectPiggyPaws said:
Poor Kona. My Bear had the same symptoms, grunting and squeaking while trying to pee but never any blood present. The vets said his bladder was causing pain upon palpation but they couldn't feel stones. Bear had antibiotics and pain meds. Xrays showed nothing was visible but that night Bear passed some stones and cried out while passing them. I helped him by protruding his penis and removing the stones. That evening and the following day there were six stones in total. Three different vets didn't know what type of stones they were. I never knew what was wrong other than a sore bladder.
I really hope you get some answers, it's horrible not knowing what's wrong and what you can do to help. Please be aware that not all stones show up on Xray.

The picture shows the stones next to a 1ml syringe. The light colour ones were 'fresh' and the darker ones were passed earlier and had dried, shrunken in size and darkened in colour.

I wish you both all the best xx
Click to expand...
I don't think those look like bladder stones either, they are far too regular in shape. Also being calcium they should be whitish and not see through like those were. Could they be absorbent beads such as those in disposable puppy pads etc?
 
I know what you mean as whatever they're made of they did look like they'd dried out over time but if beads were eaten they wouldn't reach the bladder and emerge from the penis shaft - they'd come out in the poop. I bet poor Bear was glad to see the back of them whatever they were...
 
Yes, I was very surprised to see them and I presumed that if he was going to pass stones that it would be calcium based, white-ish and irregular in shape. I tried to look up the stones and all I could come up with is oxalate or struvite from looking at pictures but two different vets hadn't seen stones like them before.
There is no way that Bear could have ingested them, and as Free Ranger said, it would have come out in poop. I don't use pee pads, just padded fleece and vetbed.
I just hoped that by sharing this, it might help someone else and even knowing you aren't alone is some comfort.
 
Thanks for sharing... it's hard living with bladder issues because they pee so often and it bothers them each time. It does help knowing others have been through the same thing - and of course the threads can help others in the future. @Scooter Pie I hope you can get some good news for Kona x
 
Thank you all for the replies and support. No news yet. Kona's 17 hours out from her last .20ml of (dog) meloxicam and she may get it a few hours early if I hear her make any more noises like I did earlier this morning 😭 Otherwise she's acting herself and not fluffed up at the moment.

Oh I absolutely think the pain is during pooping at least half of the time. I watch her strain and expect bloody pee and it's just normal poop.

Ive tried hydrochlorothiazide and potassium citrate for her but never made it a full 2 weeks as prescribed. I have noticed it makes her visibly uncomfortable (fluffy) and the vet thinks she may not tolerate the diuretic effect like my other pigs who went on it did.

Love the idea of the "bladder flush" as mentioned earlier as well. Definitely something to ask about before she goes under.

She did go under this summer for a dental. Did fine but had some bleeding afterward we think from all the rectal temp checks...
 
Both my Rainbow Bridge boys had bladser/urinary issues. Unfortunately it didn't end well for them either 😢
Eric was squeaking when peeing for a long time, on long term metacam and glucosamine for suspected IC. He had a small amount of blood in his pee towards the end. He was back and forth to the vets nearly constantly. He had x rays but nothing was spotted with regards to stones, but there was some sludge in his bladder.
He ended up at the emergency vet overnight as he was really poorly - again they couldn't find anything.
We picked him up the next morning and took him straight to Simon at the Cat and Rabbit Clinic. He had one look/feel and found a large stone blocking his urethra. He operated there and then, flushed his bladder, the works. Eric did come round but passed away the next morning in my arms. Simon thinks the toxins building up from not being able to pee caused him to pass away 😔

Larry was diabetic so prone to infections. He had many ultrasounds and x rays which showed a slight amount of sludge, no stones but a massively thickened bladder. At it's worst it was 2cm thick! The vets couldn't figure out what was causing it, he was on long term metacam and glucosamine the same as Eric for a long time. It was working for a time but he ended up on very strong painkillers which just weren't working. He used to cry every time he peed or pooped and it broke my heart. We had to let him go 💔

I'm so sorry these aren't happier stories for you, I think sometimes it's not quite as bad for the girls as it is for the boys with regards to passing/removing stones?
 

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Wheekallweek said:
Both my Rainbow Bridge boys had bladser/urinary issues. Unfortunately it didn't end well for them either 😢
Eric was squeaking when peeing for a long time, on long term metacam and glucosamine for suspected IC. He had a small amount of blood in his pee towards the end. He was back and forth to the vets nearly constantly. He had x rays but nothing was spotted with regards to stones, but there was some sludge in his bladder.
He ended up at the emergency vet overnight as he was really poorly - again they couldn't find anything.
We picked him up the next morning and took him straight to Simon at the Cat and Rabbit Clinic. He had one look/feel and found a large stone blocking his urethra. He operated there and then, flushed his bladder, the works. Eric did come round but passed away the next morning in my arms. Simon thinks the toxins building up from not being able to pee caused him to pass away 😔

Larry was diabetic so prone to infections. He had many ultrasounds and x rays which showed a slight amount of sludge, no stones but a massively thickened bladder. At it's worst it was 2cm thick! The vets couldn't figure out what was causing it, he was on long term metacam and glucosamine the same as Eric for a long time. It was working for a time but he ended up on very strong painkillers which just weren't working. He used to cry every time he peed or pooped and it broke my heart. We had to let him go 💔

I'm so sorry these aren't happier stories for you, I think sometimes it's not quite as bad for the girls as it is for the boys with regards to passing/removing stones?
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💖💖💖

Poor sweeties. Id think boy's anatomy would make it harder.

This time 1 year ago my Buttercup was at the end with this. We had her on antibiotics on and off (mostly "on") for a year before we discovered glucosamine. I still have unexpired buprenorphine and syringes from her last days if needed 😭 That helped but we're holding out unless it becomes clear she's in hospice 💖💖
 
Yes I think it was buprenorphine Larry had, it did keep him reasonably comfortable for another week or so. I truly hope and pray she gets better soon ❤️
 
Quick update...radiologist thinks it's likely she has stones. I need to talk to the vet. Not sure what to do. If we did surgery, it would need to be when I have some time off to be with her, next month. They also offered a more detailed ultrasound appointment.

For now, daily meloxicam seems to be keeping her comfortable!
 
Thank you so much for letting us know, I'm so sorry that it's still ongoing without anything definite. That's always the frustrating part, when you just don't get definite answers and you don't know what to do for the best.

At least she is comfortable for now with the meloxicam. Give her extra cuddles and kisses xx
 
Gosh. I'm really concerned. Finding blood. Bloody red spots, like straight blood not dilluted pink with urine. This can't be good.

Going to do a full cage cleaning today so I can keep on top of how much I'm finding.

Just now on the side of her wooden bridge where she likes to stick her butt out to go to the bathroom, I found what looks like a shiny dried blood clot.

Nothing's going to happen today as far as the vet except maybe she'll answer my email.

My baby ❤️7B4E2C11-D3B1-41DF-8DFF-CBCE3E43CF34.webp
 
Oh I’m so sorry shes now bleeding. Good luck getting an appointment as soon as you can.
 
Hmm. So it was 1am Saturday when I saw a spot of bright red blood. In the morning I found the two dried blood clot looking bits...and for the rest of the day I saw her pee and it was totally clear. Still squeaking...and just now I checked the whole cage that was cleaned yesterday. No signs of more blood.

Wishful thinking but I sure hope there's a chance those blood clots I found could have been something passing from the bladder. I looked all over with a flashlight and didn't find anything that looked like a stone.
 
Well that's great that there's no more blood and no stones but still really worry if she passed blood clots. Can you try to speak to your vet? They might have an idea of what could be happening.
 
PerfectPiggyPaws said:
Well that's great that there's no more blood and no stones but still really worry if she passed blood clots. Can you try to speak to your vet? They might have an idea of what could be happening.
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I'll be stopping over to pick up her meloxicam refill today after 4 (US eastern time 🤓)so will check in. If she has openings and wants to see her I definitely will.

I do worry about the blood and the fact that she's been on meloxicam for probably 2 weeks now. 💖

Just happy to see her mostly looking like herself and doing her favorite thing...eating hay 💖💖

Tomorrow happens to be the 1 year anniversary of Kona losing her previous cagemate Buttercup to bladder issues. Just want to get past that ✨844E2F60-C589-405E-8BE7-B660C58B8161.webp
 
Great to hear that she is eating hay, that's always good to see. Is she pooping okay?

Sorry to hear of the anniversary of losing your precious Buttercup. It's always a hard time anyway so for another piggy to be ill at that time is always worse as you just can't help thinking of your previous loss.

I lost my Bear just over 3 weeks ago and I lost him two days short of when I lost my previous gorgeous piggy, Rory. As Bear had been ill for two weeks, it felt like October was a horrible month, but I'd actually adopted Bear in October, and now after losing Bear, I have just adopted two boys.

It's easy to think of the bad stuff that happens and sometimes we need to remind ourselves of the good that happens too.... like Kona coming into your life.

Whatever happens, please be kind to yourself and know that you are doing all you can to give Kona the best care possible.

Sending you big hugs :hug:
 
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