I think I made a mistake.

piggl

piggl

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Hi, today I travelled an hour and a half away to carry out some boar bonding and surrender one of my males.

My reggie, 1 year old, timid, not dominant but hates being pushed around piggie met 2-3 year old boar who Ill name hank.

A lady from the rescue carried out the bonding and she says she felt they were bonded, but they would often have humping/chasing episodes often. She also mentioned that they had lay down together and that there was no aggressiveness at all, but I should have known better considering the major episodes of humping but she had just spent an hour and a half watching them I felt bad saying no I don’t think it’s working.

Anyway they go into separate carriers for the ride home. We get home and things seem fine until the humping episodes start again, they last between 30-50 seconds, and Reggie is clearly uncomfortable throughout the whole thing. He’s noticeably now avoiding his new “friend” and goes to the opposite end of the cage whenever possible.
I think aside from his dominance he just wants a pig to cuddle with, he keeps walking up to Reggie and laying next to him, but Reggie’s having none of it and walks away everytime.

I will attach some videos, any advice/thoughts appreciated, but it doesn’t look good considering my Reggie wants nothing to do with the new friend.

In this picture Reggie lays down in a corner, and 30 seconds later Hank gets very close and tries to sleep with him, but Reggie runs away, which causes Hank to chase him down and attempt to hump him again.
IMG_5463.webp


I think most of the issue is that Reggie won’t allow him to hump him, or even get near him.
In the new guy wants to sleep video he gets very close to Reggie then tries to lay down next to him. Reggie is very uncomfortable and starts rumble strutting and new guy has a little rumble but then goes back to trying to lay next to him.

Short Chase
New Guy wants to sleep
Long Chase
Chase Ends
 
Will Reggie learn to sleep next to him? Will he continue to avoid the new piggy. I cant help but feel so bad for the new piggy, he just wants someone to cuddle with and Reggie isn’t allowing him.

They are now sleeping about a extended hands length from each other. Reggie was the one who lay down first and Hank came near him and also lay down, but gave him some space this time.
 
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I watched the videos. I’m not an expert as I’ve only bonded a couple of times and always with a baby. Reggie seems a bit annoyed but the squeaking sounds like submissive squeaks to me. What do you think? It’s good they are having a nap now.
 
As it stands, they are not fully bonded as that takes two weeks.
It doesn’t look terrible to me, I’d leave them to it

Also bear in mind that cuddling isnt common - whether they do or don’t isn’t indicative of a good bond.
 
weepweeps said:
I watched the videos. I’m not an expert as I’ve only bonded a couple of times and always with a baby. Reggie seems a bit annoyed but the squeaking sounds like submissive squeaks to me. What do you think? It’s good they are having a nap now.
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It’s the exact same with me, I have never bonded two older pigs ever, apart from my failed re-bonding of Reggie and Remi.

They’ve had two naps now, Reggie’s goes and lays down and Hank comes near but not too close and lays aswell. After a couple minutes new guy ruins it by trying to smell his bum, lol, but it’s a start.
 
Piggies&buns said:
As it stands, they are not fully bonded as that takes two weeks.
It doesn’t look terrible to me, I’d leave them to it

Also bear in mind that cuddling isnt common - whether they do or don’t isn’t indicative of a good bond.
Click to expand...
Ok, thanks. Reggie just gets so uncomfortable with the chasing or basically any close interaction at all, but i’m hoping it will just take time.

Considering the potential tense-ness, when would I be looking at introducing some open hides (with atleast two exits). I only have a couple fully open ones and worry i’m going to cause territorial-ness.
Maybe a couple days?
 
Are they still in a bonding pen? Or have you moved them to the cage?

You can leave hides out for as long as necessary.
If you cover part of the cage with a sheet then it will offer the seclusion like a hide would but without any risks of issues/territorial behaviours
 
Piggies&buns said:
Are they still in a bonding pen? Or have you moved them to the cage?

You can leave hides out for as long as necessary.
If you cover part of the cage with a sheet then it will offer the seclusion like a hide would but without any risks of issues/territorial behaviours
Click to expand...
Their bonding pen is their cage unfortunately. They were meant to be moving into their hutch after the reintroduction, but due to their up and down bonding I don’t feel comfortable doing that right now.

I am aware that moving them to their hutch may affect their bond, but it’s a risk I will have to take in a couple weeks time.
 
Ok, in that case, I would cover part of the cage but leave it as is probably until tomorrow.

How long have they actually been together?

Moving them won’t affect their bond if they are bonded. All it will do is cause a round of dominance - reestablishing in a new environment - but you can mitigate that by use of soiled/scent marked bedding.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Ok, in that case, I would cover part of the cage but leave it as is probably until tomorrow.

How long have they actually been together?

Moving them won’t affect their bond if they are bonded. All it will do is cause a round of dominance - reestablishing in a new environment - but you can mitigate that by use of soiled/scent marked bedding.
Click to expand...
They were together for 1 hour 30 minutes in dundee then they were separated for a 1 hour 30 minute trip home, and now they’ve been together in this neutral cage since 5:30pm.

Thanks for the confirmation about the change in location, I’ll keep that in mind.

They’ve just had their dinner. The new guy is a bit unsure about vegetables which I find strange considering he’s 2-3 years old. I feel there’s a lot I should have found out before adopting him, but I was asking so many questions I felt it would be silly to ask any more.
 
I've done a couple of failed bondings. If they don't like each other they make this known pretty quickly. The shortest time I've had before a fight broke out was 5 mins the longest was 35 minutes and I had to separate a rolling jumping ball of angry piggy with oven gloves. They just have to get used to each other and learn about each other's pigsonality which is what it looks like they are doing now. It's early days, if they have eaten together, slept and are back to eating again that's a good early sign.
 
Betsy said:
I've done a couple of failed bondings. If they don't like each other they make this known pretty quickly. The shortest time I've had before a fight broke out was 5 mins the longest was 35 minutes and I had to separate a rolling jumping ball of angry piggy with oven gloves. They just have to get used to each other and learn about each other's pigsonality which is what it looks like they are doing now. It's early days, if they have eaten together, slept and are back to eating again that's a good early sign.
Click to expand...
I agree, give them the time to get used to each other. They can stay put until you are ready. Hank seems to be realising he needs to give a little more space, they have eaten and slept which is a good sign
 
Thank you all for your replies. I definitely think they’re starting to settle in, even though it’s still very early days.
Hank can now come near Reggie without a massive reaction!

If I do get an appointment tomorrow, do I take new pig alone or put them together in the carrier? I have one that’s “made for” cats, but it’s still a compact space.
 
Personally I would not separate them at this stage. Mine is not an expert opinion though.
 
piggl said:
Thank you all for your replies. I definitely think they’re starting to settle in, even though it’s still very early days.
Hank can now come near Reggie without a massive reaction!

If I do get an appointment tomorrow, do I take new pig alone or put them together in the carrier? I have one that’s “made for” cats, but it’s still a compact space.
Click to expand...
That’s a tricky one. I’m not sure I’d be brave enough to put them in such a confined space so soon. But then I’m an over thinker 🤔
 
Their bond has failed. Honestly I don’t know what i’m doing wrong.

I was about to go to sleep last night and I heard some extremely elevated teeth chattering so I got up, but I tried to give them a chance to work it out themselves but had a towel at the ready. Well things became too much and they had a full on fight. I got inbetween them so no blood was drawn, but if I hadn’t been there, there definitely would have been.

I know no bond is guaranteed, but i’ve had a really hard time with pigs from having to emergency pts one pig then the abscess happened and their bond broke down. I had to make the really hard decision to surrender Remi and I travel all the way down to Dundee and back just for it to fall apart on the first night.

I don’t want to travel down to dundee just for it to happen again. I want my Remi and Reggie back, but they won’t be friends and them living side by side isn’t an option because Remi was constantly chewing at the bars and trying to get to Reggie. I just feel deflated.
 
I’m so sorry to hear it hasn’t worked. It is disheartening but you really aren’t doing anything wrong.

Will you need to return Hank?

I’m just wondering whether you can consider neutering Reggie and bonding him with a sow. Sow/boar bonds still come down to compatibility but they tend to be more stable
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’m so sorry to hear it hasn’t worked. It is disheartening but you really aren’t doing anything wrong.

Will you need to return Hank?

I’m just wondering whether you can consider neutering Reggie and bonding him with a sow. Sow/boar bonds still come down to compatibility but they tend to be more stable
Click to expand...
I will need to return hank unfortunately.

Can two pigs live side by side and still be fully enriched. It would be two hutches side by side, so there would only be one side where they are next to each other unfortunately.

I just don’t know if I can bring myself to unfortunately return hank and then not take my sweet Remi back. But on the other hand I think Remi is a pig who really wants someone to interact with, and having him be “alone” feels a bit cruel.
 
Yes two pigs can live side by side every happily - I do it and so do many other members of the forum.

I know we have discussed side by side arrangements previously but hutches don’t work side by side - the wooden side panels prevent all interaction.
You would need to replace the wooden hutch sides with mesh to have them side by side.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Yes two pigs can live side by side every happily - I do it and so do many other members of the forum.

I know we have discussed side by side arrangements previously but hutches don’t work side by side - the wooden side panels prevent all interaction.
You would need to replace the wooden hutch sides with mesh to have them side by side.
Click to expand...
Yes, making one side conjoined and changed into a mesh.

I’m thinking about options, neutering Reggie is something I will have to think about.
Is the bond chance increased significantly? Assuming their personalities match.
 
piggl said:
Yes, making one side conjoined and changed into a mesh.

I’m thinking about options, neutering Reggie is something I will have to think about.
Is the bond chance increased significantly? Assuming their personalities match.
Click to expand...

If you change it to mesh, then it’s absolutely fine.

A boar/sow bond tends to be more stable - they are less likely to suddenly fall out. They do still need to through the first two weeks of bonding though and be compatible.
 
Piggies&buns said:
If you change it to mesh, then it’s absolutely fine.

A boar/sow bond tends to be more stable - they are less likely to suddenly fall out. They do still need to through the first two weeks of bonding though and be compatible.
Click to expand...
Going off his now 2 fall outs with boars, would I be best going down the neutering route?

Reggie is a very timid boar. He’s definitely not dominant so he comes out as the under pig, but he also has no time for any pig to “dominate” him, which is why there has been issue with the last two pairings.

I apologise as that probably isn’t an easy question to answer, haha, but just looking for a second opinion.
I know all eventualities come with risks, but there’s only so much falling out I can take!
 
piggl said:
Going off his now 2 fall outs with boars, would I be best going down the neutering route?

I apologise as that probably isn’t an easy question to answer, haha, but just looking for a second opinion.
I know all eventualities come with risks, but there’s only so much falling out I can take!
Click to expand...

It’s not possible to answer because it all comes down to finding the right boar. He could meet any number and fail with them, but suddenly one clicks and works out perfectly.

Neutering would probably be what I would do, even if you continued with searching for a boar during his six week wait/in the meantime. You will have doubled your possible options.
(I appreciate it’s a journey for you though so may not be viable)
 
Aw I’m so sorry the bond with Hank has failed 😞 but you’re not doing anything wrong so please do not blame yourself

Sadly, I do not think having two piggies live side by side in hutches would really be feasible as they wouldn’t get the interaction that they need x
 
Claire W said:
Sadly, I do not think having two piggies live side by side in hutches would really be feasible as they wouldn’t get the interaction that they need x
Click to expand...

Don’t worry - she is going to replace wooden sides with mesh side so it does mean they can live side by side in hutches without any issues.
 
I am sorry you are going through this. You are doing everything right, it's not your fault. Finding the right boar pairing is difficult, there is a one in five chance of a pairing working which is why people are advised to go to a rescue that does bonding and can offer a choice of boars. A rescue that does bonding while boarding is the best but hard to find as they get longer to spend together before deciding it's a match. Speed dating only gives a rough idea that the bond will work. My Bertie had 9 failed bonds before we decided side by side was best for him. I don't want to neuter him to live with a sow because I have a boar pair who may be upset by having a sow in the room.
 
piggieminder said:
I am sorry you are going through this. You are doing everything right, it's not your fault. Finding the right boar pairing is difficult, there is a one in five chance of a pairing working which is why people are advised to go to a rescue that does bonding and can offer a choice of boars. A rescue that does bonding while boarding is the best but hard to find as they get longer to spend together before deciding it's a match. Speed dating only gives a rough idea that the bond will work. My Bertie had 9 failed bonds before we decided side by side was best for him. I don't want to neuter him to live with a sow because I have a boar pair who may be upset by having a sow in the room.
Click to expand...
They have multiple single males available. I think i’m going to try atleast one more, there was a sweet boy named panko, who I think is very cute.

Hank has a vet appointment this afternoon, in which i’m hoping he gets the all clear.
 
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