Hygeine during incontinence

[Eriathwen]

OK so for those that don't follow my thread, Hazel (3 years, unspayed) decided to jump off my lap Friday night, and hit the bathroom floor from about 30cm, hard on her belly. Initially she seemed ok, but by Saturday morning she was soaked with urine.
She was put on 10 days of metacam, advised confinement, nothing broken but inflammation around the lower spinal cord likely, which would effect the nerves to the bladder. Bladder leakage was overflow from a full bladder. Back legs are pretty much fine, no paralysis or peresis, she is able to walk and run completely normally.

By Monday she was passing a huge amount of blood, clots and sludge. She has a high dose of baytril twice a day for a week.

The blood is pretty much gone now, however she is still completely incontinent. She is showing very small signs of improvement in other ways (softer poops becoming more normal, reduction in impaction building up) but no bladder control that I can see is returning.

I'm aware the main issue will just need time, and a lot of luck.
My question however is how to maintain her hygiene to prevent another raging UTI?

During the day I can keep her mostly clean and dry now, I am going to be swapping her shavings out for bathmats, pee pads and vet bed to see if this makes a difference though.

The biggest problem however is at night, for some reason over night she seems to favour one corner where she will poop and just sit, and of course the urine leakage is causing a slurry to coat her vulva, which is going to cause repeated UTIs during her entire recovery if I cant find a way to prevent this. I dont know why she is less active at night as she is perfectly capable of moving around, apart from obviously feeling weakened and keeping out the way of non existent predators maybe.. I'm hopeful once the inflammation has reduced she can go back in with her Mum and Husboar who should encourage (annoy ) her into getting up and moving around again.

So, any ideas or experience welcome! If it comes to just having to get up to wipe her a few times a night, so be it, but looking to explore other options as well!

 

[Wiebke]

OK so for those that don't follow my thread, Hazel (3 years, unspayed) decided to jump off my lap Friday night, and hit the bathroom floor from about 30cm, hard on her belly. Initially she seemed ok, but by Saturday morning she was soaked with urine.
She was put on 10 days of metacam, advised confinement, nothing broken but inflammation around the lower spinal cord likely, which would effect the nerves to the bladder. Bladder leakage was overflow from a full bladder. Back legs are pretty much fine, no paralysis or peresis, she is able to walk and run completely normally.

By Monday she was passing a huge amount of blood, clots and sludge. She has a high dose of baytril twice a day for a week.

The blood is pretty much gone now, however she is still completely incontinent. She is showing very small signs of improvement in other ways (softer poops becoming more normal, reduction in impaction building up) but no bladder control that I can see is returning.

I'm aware the main issue will just need time, and a lot of luck.
My question however is how to maintain her hygiene to prevent another raging UTI?

During the day I can keep her mostly clean and dry now, I am going to be swapping her shavings out for bathmats, pee pads and vet bed to see if this makes a difference though.

The biggest problem however is at night, for some reason over night she seems to favour one corner where she will poop and just sit, and of course the urine leakage is causing a slurry to coat her vulva, which is going to cause repeated UTIs during her entire recovery if I cant find a way to prevent this. I dont know why she is less active at night as she is perfectly capable of moving around, apart from obviously feeling weakened and keeping out the way of non existent predators maybe.. I'm hopeful once the inflammation has reduced she can go back in with her Mum and Husboar who should encourage (annoy ) her into getting up and moving around again.

So, any ideas or experience welcome! If it comes to just having to get up to wipe her a few times a night, so be it, but looking to explore other options as well!

View attachment 210301

Hi

There is only so much you can do but cutting a piece of highly absorbant vetbed bedding fabric into smaller squares that you can just quickly exchange at need are by far your best bet. You can find it online.

Flamazine cream or anti-microbial vet spray can help with urine scald and any minor infections of the undercarriage and foot pads. Please use this as sparingly as possible and only if really needed. Softened/moistened foot pads are much more prone to secondary bumblefoot infections; please keep an eye out for those.

You can find more helpful practical tips and advice on what to look out for in our mobility care guide: Looking After Guinea Pigs With Limited or No Mobility

All the best!

PS: Please make sure that you get your regular sleep; you have to be there for yourself and your ill piggy for the longer term so any conflicting needs have to balanced out. If you can avoid it, please do not get up at night for longer periods and not unless you are dealing with a short term life or death emergency battle. Rather make sure that you set your piggy up for the night just before you go to bed and then first thing in the morning.

 

[Eriathwen]

Hi

There is only so much you can do but cutting a piece of highly absorbant vetbed bedding fabric into smaller squares that you can just quickly exchange at need are by far your best bet. You can find it online.

Flamazine cream or anti-microbial vet spray can help with urine scald and any minor infections of the undercarriage and foot pads. Please use this as sparingly as possible and only if really needed. Softened/moistened foot pads are much more prone to secondary bumblefoot infections; please keep an eye out for those.

You can find more helpful practical tips and advice on what to look out for in our mobility care guide: Looking After Guinea Pigs With Limited or No Mobility

All the best!

PS: Please make sure that you get your regular sleep; you have to be there for yourself and your ill piggy for the longer term so any conflicting needs have to balanced out. If you can avoid it, please do not get up at night for longer periods and not unless you are dealing with a short term life or death emergency battle. Rather make sure that you set your piggy up for the night just before you go to bed and then first thing in the morning.

Thankyou! I have a few sheets of vet bed laying around, one is pretty much scrap already so I can cut that up into squares no problem
I'll get some flamazine cream in, shes currently being washed and dried 3xs a day as advised by the vet but luckily her feet etc dont seem to be an issue yet, although in the weeks to come that may change.

I'll be honest, I haven't slept well since her accident, I've felt so guilty and annoyed at myself for not catching her, or for having her up off the floor in the first place so at the moment it isnt much of an issue as I'm awake anyway.
I am slowly coming to terms with it though and getting more sleep as the days go by. 1 accident in 20+ years of keeping isn't too bad of a record I suppose, and I'm well aware it could have been so much worse!

 

[Dilly's Piggies]

OK so for those that don't follow my thread, Hazel (3 years, unspayed) decided to jump off my lap Friday night, and hit the bathroom floor from about 30cm, hard on her belly. Initially she seemed ok, but by Saturday morning she was soaked with urine.
She was put on 10 days of metacam, advised confinement, nothing broken but inflammation around the lower spinal cord likely, which would effect the nerves to the bladder. Bladder leakage was overflow from a full bladder. Back legs are pretty much fine, no paralysis or peresis, she is able to walk and run completely normally.

By Monday she was passing a huge amount of blood, clots and sludge. She has a high dose of baytril twice a day for a week.

The blood is pretty much gone now, however she is still completely incontinent. She is showing very small signs of improvement in other ways (softer poops becoming more normal, reduction in impaction building up) but no bladder control that I can see is returning.

I'm aware the main issue will just need time, and a lot of luck.
My question however is how to maintain her hygiene to prevent another raging UTI?

During the day I can keep her mostly clean and dry now, I am going to be swapping her shavings out for bathmats, pee pads and vet bed to see if this makes a difference though.

The biggest problem however is at night, for some reason over night she seems to favour one corner where she will poop and just sit, and of course the urine leakage is causing a slurry to coat her vulva, which is going to cause repeated UTIs during her entire recovery if I cant find a way to prevent this. I dont know why she is less active at night as she is perfectly capable of moving around, apart from obviously feeling weakened and keeping out the way of non existent predators maybe.. I'm hopeful once the inflammation has reduced she can go back in with her Mum and Husboar who should encourage (annoy ) her into getting up and moving around again.

So, any ideas or experience welcome! If it comes to just having to get up to wipe her a few times a night, so be it, but looking to explore other options as well!

View attachment 210301

Aww wow what a gorgeous coat colour Hazel has, beautiful! Vet bed or those thick noodle type bath mats have been really good for my piggies when they've had urinary issues. Does she have a specific hidey house in a corner she keeps sitting in, or is it a spot in the open? It may sound mean, but when I have a sick piggie that sits in one house all day and gets themselves into a mess, I do take the hideys away temporarily.

Instead I get a fleece blanket or towel and hang it over a larger area of the cage with vetbed underneath, maybe a heat pad too if it's cold, so they still feel safe and have something to hide under, but as it's a larger area they tend to move around more and don't sit in one spot.

Other than that there isn't really much you can do besides changing the bedding more often, which you're already doing. I hope Hazel feels better soon!

 

[Eriathwen]

Aww wow what a gorgeous coat colour Hazel has, beautiful! Vet bed or those thick noodle type bath mats have been really good for my piggies when they've had urinary issues. Does she have a specific hidey house in a corner she keeps sitting in, or is it a spot in the open? It may sound mean, but when I have a sick piggie that sits in one house all day and gets themselves into a mess, I do take the hideys away temporarily.

Instead I get a fleece blanket or towel and hang it over a larger area of the cage with vetbed underneath, maybe a heat pad too if it's cold, so they still feel safe and have something to hide under, but as it's a larger area they tend to move around more and don't sit in one spot.

Other than that there isn't really much you can do besides changing the bedding more often, which you're already doing. I hope Hazel feels better soon!

Hiya! Thanks
No, no hides, just big piles of hay to hide underneath.

I was wondering @Wiebke (sorry to tag you) but I've noticed a handful of times she seems to pause and stick her bum out, almost as if she is going to pee. Maybe she's just trying to push out poops but it got me wondering, with nerve damage does sensation return before function, or does it all come back at once? As she has a UTI I'd expect the urge to pee would occur more frequently than the actual need of urinating so it'd make sense if shes beginning to get the urge to pass urine again even if she physically can't yet.

 

[Wiebke]

Hiya! Thanks
No, no hides, just big piles of hay to hide underneath.

I was wondering @Wiebke (sorry to tag you) but I've noticed a handful of times she seems to pause and stick her bum out, almost as if she is going to pee. Maybe she's just trying to push out poops but it got me wondering, with nerve damage does sensation return before function, or does it all come back at once? As she has a UTI I'd expect the urge to pee would occur more frequently than the actual need of urinating so it'd make sense if shes beginning to get the urge to pass urine again even if she physically can't yet.

Nerve damage generally comes back only gradually if it comes back.

 

[Eriathwen]

Nerve damage generally comes back only gradually if it comes back.

Thanks! That's what I thought but at the moment being so tired I'm not trusting myself. I'm hopeful that the tiny improvements mean it does come back, slightly concerned that what I've been reading in humans this kind of nerve issue doesn't actually resolve

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks! That's what I thought but at the moment being so tired I'm not trusting myself. I'm hopeful that the tiny improvements mean it does come back, slightly concerned that what I've been reading in humans this kind of nerve issue doesn't actually resolve

Look, this is one of these things you have to deal with as they come and as you go along; you don't have any control over them. The more energy you waste on your fears/feelings of guilt and on what ifs, the less you will have for the support of your piggy and the more tired you will be; what is out of your control is totally irrelevant right now since you are obviously already very exhausted. What you have left in terms of strength and stamina you need to make the most efficient use of. It is not about being the perfect piggy mummy; it is about managing your own dwindling resources so you can continue to provide the best sustainable care under the circumstances and within the constraints of the situation you are finding yourself in.

Concentrate on what you can contructively do and make sure that you take care of yourself - you won't help your piggies at all if you run out of steam and fall ill or are so tired that you can no longer think straight. What counts is the now and your care in the now; as well as your own wellbeing and physical/mental balance to stand the distance for as long as needed. It is a tough lesson, but a very important one. Looking after yourself is not selfish - if you collapse, who will looking after your piggies?

It is the same survival mode I have had to live with over the last nearly two months, looking after Edward and the 26 piggies (5 of which are over 6 years) through the two heat waves and my Covid wipe out. I still have to think and plan very carefully how I manage their care and all the cage cleans with an empty battery; what I can do bit by bit, what I can scale down, what I can leave be so I can ensure that they can all tick over as best as can be under the circumstances. It is not as much as I would like to provide but it is sufficient to keep them all ticking over in this situation. Life happens and you have to muddle through. Taking care of myself so I can slowly refill my empty batteries is every bit as important for the longer term as my current care, but it is by necessity a constant compromise and not an ideal. It doesn't make me a bad owner - I am still doing the best I can in extreme circumstances.

Please make sure that your own battery is not running out and that you factor in rest time and time for Mindfulness for yourself. See them as a crucial care resource; like making a dwindling reservoir lake last for as long as possible during a drought.

HUGS

 

[Eriathwen]

Look, this is one of these things you have to deal with as they come and as you go along; you don't have any control over them. The more energy you waste on your fears/feelings of guilt and on what ifs, the less you will have for the support of your piggy and the more tired you will be; what is out of your control is totally irrelevant right now since you are obviously already very exhausted. What you have left in terms of strength and stamina you need to make the most efficient use of. It is not about being the perfect piggy mummy; it is about managing your own dwindling resources so you can continue to provide the best sustainable care under the circumstances and within the constraints of the situation you are finding yourself in.

Concentrate on what you can contructively do and make sure that you take care of yourself - you won't help your piggies at all if you run out of steam and fall ill or are so tired that you can no longer think straight. What counts is the now and your care in the now; as well as your own wellbeing and physical/mental balance to stand the distance for as long as needed. It is a tough lesson, but a very important one. Looking after yourself is not selfish - if you collapse, who will looking after your piggies?

It is the same survival mode I have had to live with over the last nearly two months, looking after Edward and the 26 piggies (5 of which are over 6 years) through the two heat waves and my Covid wipe out. I still have to think and plan very carefully how I manage their care and all the cage cleans with an empty battery; what I can do bit by bit, what I can scale down, what I can leave be so I can ensure that they can all tick over as best as can be under the circumstances. It is not as much as I would like to provide but it is sufficient to keep them all ticking over in this situation. Life happens and you have to muddle through. Taking care of myself so I can slowly refill my empty batteries is every bit as important for the longer term as my current care, but it is by necessity a constant compromise and not an ideal. It doesn't make me a bad owner - I am still doing the best I can in extreme circumstances.

Please make sure that your own battery is not running out and that you factor in rest time and time for Mindfulness for yourself. See them as a crucial care resource; like making a dwindling reservoir lake last for as long as possible during a drought.

HUGS

Cheers, it's definitely something I've always struggled with..unfortunately I have cptsd and having extremely bloody urine pouring out of her the other day seemed to trigger something, which has just compounded the feelings of not being able to control what's going on or being able to do anything constructive towards recovery.
I've been making time to still go running, that definitely helps, although I absolutely won't be able to continue with the half marathon I had planned. But it is what it is, ive definitely been way worse than I currently am so I'm hoping that means with each crisis I'm getting better at handling them!
Luckily the blood has completely gone as of today, so that is at least one issue that I can stop worrying about. She also squatted again just now and passed what appeared to be a couple of drops of urine, whatever is going on, it seems her brain is beginning to be sent the correct signals

 

[piggieminder]

Hang in there @Eriathwen you are doing great, it's a shame about your half marathon but there will be other chances. You are an amazing piggy slave and give your piggies the best care don't lose sight of that. What happened to Hazel was an unfortunate accident and not your fault, please don't blame yourself, these things happen.

 

[Wiebke]

Cheers, it's definitely something I've always struggled with..unfortunately I have cptsd and having extremely bloody urine pouring out of her the other day seemed to trigger something, which has just compounded the feelings of not being able to control what's going on or being able to do anything constructive towards recovery.
I've been making time to still go running, that definitely helps, although I absolutely won't be able to continue with the half marathon I had planned. But it is what it is, ive definitely been way worse than I currently am so I'm hoping that means with each crisis I'm getting better at handling them!
Luckily the blood has completely gone as of today, so that is at least one issue that I can stop worrying about. She also squatted again just now and passed what appeared to be a couple of drops of urine, whatever is going on, it seems her brain is beginning to be sent the correct signals

Just try to hang in there and concentrate on giving her the care she needs around the rest time that you need. Take every day as it comes and cross any bridges only when you really get there. Please make sure that you get 6 hours of unbroken rest time if at all possible.

Things are moving in the right direction, so please make sure that you get your rest, too.

 

[Eriathwen]

Thankyou both! I've finished meds, shes been washed, dried and syringe fed where she managed another few drops on the towel! With the small improvements I've seen, I've a feeling I'll sleep well tonight.

 

[piggieminder]

I hope you do. I've done my last meds for the night so off to bed now myself.

 

[Eriathwen]

Well now that I've stopped crying look at that! She backed up and did a small wee! The blood is back, but honestly, I dont care at this point, shes getting feeling back!
I have a nurse appointment tomorrow for another cartrophen injection for Ebony so I'm going to ask if I can have a longer course of antibiotics for her, I dont want to stop and start given how bad it was.

 

[Eriathwen]

Well now that I've stopped crying look at that! She backed up and did a small wee! The blood is back, but honestly, I dont care at this point, shes getting feeling back!
I have a nurse appointment tomorrow for another cartrophen injection for Ebony so I'm going to ask if I can have a longer course of antibiotics for her, I dont want to stop and start given how bad it was.

View attachment 210378

So I realised last night she actually had twice the amount of antibiotics I thought she did so no need to panic in that regard, she has ages left of the course. I just got back from Ebonys appointment and while I was putting her back, saw Hazel back up and squat again and sure enough, a little puddle of urine left behind.
She is still absolutely soaked underneath, but given the severity of her UTI I would expect a wet underside anyway, even without the incontinence issue.

 

[Eriathwen]

Just updating in case it's helpful to anyone else that finds this thread while dealing with a similar situation..

Hazel went back to the vet yesterday, I asked for her to be shaved (most things with Hazel are a 2 person job or I'd have done it myself) and it's been an absolute game changer, even if some areas were missed due to the hair sticking close to the skin and the blade getting too hot. With no hair to wick the urine around her belly and back end, she is completely dry now. Rather than full washes 3xs a day, she gets a wipe with a warm cotton pad and towel dried by dabbing. She even stayed dry over night!

She is passing multiple drops of urine now when she attempts to pass urine herself, although she does drip/leak almost constantly. I am however more confident this will resolve given more time. She is still passing a good amount of blood but apparently after an impact to the bladder and kidneys this can be normal for weeks after so I'm learning to live with it for now.

She is still losing weight in spite of eating reasonably well so I've upped her syringe feeds, I'm assuming she's using extra energy to keep warm.

 

[Wiebke]

I certainly did keep Edward as short and clear around his bits and back as possible; especially when his diarrhea and worsening impaction were at their worst.

 

[Eriathwen]

It definitely seems to be helping, she also passed her first stream of urine a little while ago! It's still full if blood but I'm still living with that, I've come to terms with being unable to wave a magic wand and fix it. What I can do, is support her while she recovers, and recover she seems to be doing! I'm so proud of her.

 

[Wiebke]

It definitely seems to be helping, she also passed her first stream of urine a little while ago! It's still full if blood but I'm still living with that, I've come to terms with being unable to wave a magic wand and fix it. What I can do, is support her while she recovers, and recover she seems to be doing! I'm so proud of her.

All the best. Be patient and hang in there.

 

[VickiA]

Just caught up with your thread. I’ve nothing constructive to add - just wanted to say hang in there x

 

[Free Ranger]

... and from us too. The way you are handling it is brilliant and the idea of trimming down the fur on a short-haired pig just wouldn't have occurred to me at all! We're rooting for you here Hazel x