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How much critical care to give.

Fiona1987

Fiona1987

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Evening fellow piggy parents,


My little piggy has been off his food since this morning and his hay intake has also been low with him just picking a few bits. He’s been pretty quiet just sitting in the corner of his cage for the majority of the day so something definitely up. He’s off to the vets tomorrow to investigate what could be wrong but I’m really hoping he turns a corner tonight.

I have a packet of Oxbow fine grind I’m about to top him up with but I’m confused as to how much to give him in one sitting and how often? Obviously I don’t want to over feed him till he’s bursting and uncomfortable but equally need to give him enough to keep him going.
Any advice would help :)
Thanks in advance
 
One of the experts will be along soon, but in this Health & Illness section there is a thread at the top marked Emergency care, in there is a guide to syringe feeding.

In my personal experience a piggy will let you know soon enough when they don’t want any more.
I often add a bit of mashed banana in which goes down well.

Hope all goes well at the vets tomorrow
 
First thing is that anything is better than nothing. He's off his food today but it might have been dropping off for a few days before. How are his poops? If they are still ok and poops run a day or two behind that's hopeful but if they are already small, dry and sparse this might have been smouldering for a while.

Some pigs who have trouble with chewing food because of dental pain will happily wolf the sloppy food on it's own from a bowl. Don't syringe water - rather make the slurry wetter to increase intake. Keep an eye on poop output. Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre

I had a lovely little sow who at 3 and a half years was 1.1 kilo when she stopped eating. Ivy was maintained on Recovery food for over a month (unfortunately we never found what was wrong and in the end she was ready to go - RIP my brave girl x) I tried to give the recommended 60ml over 24 hours but that was too much for her. We settled on 45 ml between 7am and 11pm in combination with her various meds. We did 4 sittings so for her it was anywhere between 5ml and 14ml at one go. Some days were not so good and we had to settle for the low 30 mls but at the end she was still 950g - so some loss but not too much. Hopefully your piggy will just be short term until the vet can find out what's wrong. Hopefully something simple like antibiotics and pain meds will sort it out. Good luck x
 
Thank you both 🙏🏻. I’ve had a good read through the guides have have a much better idea. Thank you again.
 
I’m sorry to hear he isn’t well.

You need to switch to weighing him daily and use those weight checks as your guide as to how much syringe feed to give. If he isnt any hay then he will be losing weight and you need to feed as much critical care as is necessary to stabilise his weight. There isn’t an exact science as it depends on his weight checks and whether and how much hay he is still eating for himself - but in excess of 40ml is where you are aiming but could be as much as 90ml depending on what is happening with his weight.

Feed as much as he will take at each sitting. How many sittings depends on those weight checks and how much he takes at eat sitting - if he is only able to take a few ml each time then you will need to feed every couple of hours

Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Weight - Monitoring and Management
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’m sorry to hear he isn’t well.

You need to switch to weighing him daily and use those weight checks as your guide as to how much syringe feed to give. If he isnt any hay then he will be losing weight and you need to feed as much critical care as is necessary to stabilise his weight. There isn’t an exact science as it depends on his weight checks and whether and how much hay he is still eating for himself - but in excess of 40ml is where you are aiming but could be as much as 90ml depending on what is happening with his weight.

Feed as much as he will take at each sitting. How many sittings depends on those weight checks and how much he takes at eat sitting - if he is only able to take a few ml each time then you will need to feed every couple of hours

Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Weight - Monitoring and Management
Click to expand...
Thanks for putting in the links - not a skill I have mastered.
 
I do weigh often but I definitely need to be more consistent and with times such as morning or just before their dinner time (veg)
As you can see his weight changes a bit up and down but this is the lowest he’s been.
Last year at his heaviest he was 1585g in August and then we had him neutered on the 03/09/21 as his cage mate passed away and was going to be bonded with a female. He then started losing weight after this (naturally expected as he lost some parts 😅) and he also had some infections which have since cleared.
His poos are consistent in terms of the amount and the right shape/ colour etc. they are just smaller than the whoppers he used to produce before neutering which I’m guessing is the low hay intake? He also suffers from impaction now that we have to clean out a couple time a day as he was neutered later at the age of 3 1/2 and left with a larger empty sac.

Below are his weights

Harold Weight 22/11/2021 - 1400g
Harold Weight 07/12/2021 - 1330g
Harold Weight 27/12/2021 - 1311g
Harold Weight 27/12/2021 - 1293g
Harold Weight 28/12/2021 - 1325g
Harold Weight 29/12/2021 - 1261g
Harold Weight 30/12/2021 - 1323g
Harold Weight 30/12/2021 - 1350g
Harold Weight 01/01/2022 - 1282g
Harold Weight 01/01/2022 - 1327g
Harold Weight 04/01/2022 - 1350g
Harold Weight 05/01/2022 - 1273g
Harold Weight 08/01/2022 - 1212g
 
There are some quite large drops there - notably 30 December compared to 1 and 4 to 5 January and 5 to 8 January, anything more than 50g in one go is concerning.

Poops suddenly being smaller can be because of reduced hay intake but this is where weighing is valuable because poops don’t provide real time information on what is actually happening with hay intake. I think some neutered boars do produce smaller poops and they can be more like sow poops but with his weight going down as well then it does need investigating.

i hope the vet can get to the bottom of what is going on
 
Hello, sorry it’s been a little while since I last posted so thought I would just update.
I’ve since been to the vets with our almost 4 year old piggy Harold. They checked his teeth, had a good feel all over and had a quick scan of his body and they are just as baffled as to why he’s losing weight.
I’m not sure how much I should push for more tests such as blood tests and second opinions? The vets I’m currently with are generally very good and have always been on point with previous guineas.

What I have noticed is that he eats his veg and pellets but tends to pick at his hay and not devouring it like he used to. This is good Timothy hay to!
Anyone had this issue before and know what I can do?
He lost his cage mate back last August who he was inseparable from since birth and even tho he’s now got a female with him, they have bonded well but nothing like it was.
The vet said that he could still be down from this?

He lives inside with a large pen in a part our living room so he usually has lots of interaction, he’s also incredibly affectionate and enjoys cuddles. Unfortunately I’ve been working more during the days lately so I’ve not been at home as often as I would like. We have a little camera set up and he just looks so sad and moves very little when no one’s there. It all changes when I come home but I’m becoming more aware that he’s not eating much whilst I’m gone?
 
I'm sorry you're still clueless as to the cause of the weight loss. Could you try a different hay and see if he will fare better with it? Sending lots of healing wheeks and hope he perks up soon.
 
I'm assuming he's still losing weight very slowly and has not stabilised at 1.2 kilo.

So he was neutered when his friend passed and now he has a female and they are OK together. But he's been losing weight since then (?) It would be my thought that it was more likely to be some residual issue with the neutering rather than any general sadness about his friend if he has a wife but he's still losing. You said he had problems with infection after neutering - is the vet certain that there is nothing rumbling under? I think getting blood out of a piggy is not an easy process so unless there is something specific you think you might find I'd be a bit wary of asking for this.

Now the next bit is just me speculating. It could be that your lad has some remaining discomfort for some reason. Sometimes pigs can get an abscess forming when they are neutered but I would think the signs might be more obvious? I don't know for sure. But perhaps your vet would at least be willing to prescribe a course of metacam pain relief to see if that can make a difference and that might tell you where to go next. If piggies are in pain or discomfort for any reason it can put them off eating. My 5 year old George, like many pigs, has daily metacam for his arthritis and will likely be on it until the end of his life. He's fine with that - it's not doing him any harm - and now he can rumble around and impress the girls again. He also gets impacted but I only have to check him once a day and it's not usually severe... he can poop around whatever small bung has formed! He's my only one that's had this trouble. If this came on suddenly after his neutering it again makes me wonder if there is anything which might be amiss down below that prevents him from passing poops easily. Is it soft fudgy poop that is bunging him up like you see on the internet info vids or is it just an unexpected barrowload of waste poops. Could there perhaps be some scar tissue that might be adhering to part of his bowel and would there be any way for your vet to tell this by feeling around externally?

My 3 pigs have phases of activity but do spend quite a lot of time in hideys either sleeping or chewing hay. I think that's pretty normal for the older pig but you know your pig and if you are getting the impression that your fellow is subdued you might be right. Perhaps when you come home the excitement and expectation of treats takes his mind off whatever might be bothering him. Mine don't often go in together to rest but they all eat together when they come out to forage. We use a mix of timothy hay/meadow hay for bedding (Pets at home - it comes in a pre mixed bag) then we buy something posh for 'treat' hay but anything new will stimulate them. Some pigs prefer the softer standard hay to eat rather than the stalky Timothy. It might be worth a test bag to see if he eats more of the fine strand hay - perhaps some minor dental issue...? Are you able to find any fresh grass that might tempt him?

The only other thing is are you anywhere near Northampton where the Cat and Rabbit clinic is because they have very experienced piggy vets there (esp famous for their dentals!) and you might be able to get a referral..?

Good luck Harold 💕
 
Free Ranger said:
I'm assuming he's still losing weight very slowly and has not stabilised at 1.2 kilo.

So he was neutered when his friend passed and now he has a female and they are OK together. But he's been losing weight since then (?) It would be my thought that it was more likely to be some residual issue with the neutering rather than any general sadness about his friend if he has a wife but he's still losing. You said he had problems with infection after neutering - is the vet certain that there is nothing rumbling under? I think getting blood out of a piggy is not an easy process so unless there is something specific you think you might find I'd be a bit wary of asking for this.

Now the next bit is just me speculating. It could be that your lad has some remaining discomfort for some reason. Sometimes pigs can get an abscess forming when they are neutered but I would think the signs might be more obvious? I don't know for sure. But perhaps your vet would at least be willing to prescribe a course of metacam pain relief to see if that can make a difference and that might tell you where to go next. If piggies are in pain or discomfort for any reason it can put them off eating. My 5 year old George, like many pigs, has daily metacam for his arthritis and will likely be on it until the end of his life. He's fine with that - it's not doing him any harm - and now he can rumble around and impress the girls again. He also gets impacted but I only have to check him once a day and it's not usually severe... he can poop around whatever small bung has formed! He's my only one that's had this trouble. If this came on suddenly after his neutering it again makes me wonder if there is anything which might be amiss down below that prevents him from passing poops easily. Is it soft fudgy poop that is bunging him up like you see on the internet info vids or is it just an unexpected barrowload of waste poops. Could there perhaps be some scar tissue that might be adhering to part of his bowel and would there be any way for your vet to tell this by feeling around externally?

My 3 pigs have phases of activity but do spend quite a lot of time in hideys either sleeping or chewing hay. I think that's pretty normal for the older pig but you know your pig and if you are getting the impression that your fellow is subdued you might be right. Perhaps when you come home the excitement and expectation of treats takes his mind off whatever might be bothering him. Mine don't often go in together to rest but they all eat together when they come out to forage. We use a mix of timothy hay/meadow hay for bedding (Pets at home - it comes in a pre mixed bag) then we buy something posh for 'treat' hay but anything new will stimulate them. Some pigs prefer the softer standard hay to eat rather than the stalky Timothy. It might be worth a test bag to see if he eats more of the fine strand hay - perhaps some minor dental issue...? Are you able to find any fresh grass that might tempt him?

The only other thing is are you anywhere near Northampton where the Cat and Rabbit clinic is because they have very experienced piggy vets there (esp famous for their dentals!) and you might be able to get a referral..?

Good luck Harold 💕
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply.
Yes he’s lost a lot more weight and his poos are now coming out very small and thin and stringy.
I’ve been feeding CC all this pst week to try and keep up his weight but nothing is helping tbh. We had an emergency visit to the vets earlier this afternoon as he’s gone downhill today and was squeaking (obviously pain). Two vets looked him over from top to toe and including his genitals and tummy. Both are still baffled to what it could be but his weight loss is alarming.
He’s had painkillers and I have a pot to try and collect some pee in so I can drop it in tomorrow to test for infection.
At this point I feel utterly helpless as to what to do and just so drained, I have no answers as to why this is happening and I will be surprised if he can make the next day or two at this point.
Unfortunately I’m not near Northampton but very much feeling I should take him to seers Croft which is closer to me and I’ve heard good things.
 
Fiona1987 said:
Thank you for your reply.
Yes he’s lost a lot more weight and his poos are now coming out very small and thin and stringy.
I’ve been feeding CC all this pst week to try and keep up his weight but nothing is helping tbh. We had an emergency visit to the vets earlier this afternoon as he’s gone downhill today and was squeaking (obviously pain). Two vets looked him over from top to toe and including his genitals and tummy. Both are still baffled to what it could be but his weight loss is alarming.
He’s had painkillers and I have a pot to try and collect some pee in so I can drop it in tomorrow to test for infection.
At this point I feel utterly helpless as to what to do and just so drained, I have no answers as to why this is happening and I will be surprised if he can make the next day or two at this point.
Unfortunately I’m not near Northampton but very much feeling I should take him to seers Croft which is closer to me and I’ve heard good things.
Click to expand...
Hey, just wanted to say I don't have any idea what's wrong, but wanted to offer support and say you're doing a great job and I'm sorry your boy hasn't been well for some time now. I really hope your vet can find out what's wrong and he gets better soon ❤ Has he had any scans (xray or ultrasound) done?
 
I think that getting a second opinion is completely valid if the pee sample comes through negative - any vet should be able to detect UTI. Your current vets will be only too happy if someone can help your poor boy. If he's losing significant weight there's a physical problem and it's just whether you can find it in time. We'll keep everything crossed for you.

Just to let you know (re the scans mentioned above) that we've had x-ray before to look for stones and my vet doesn't use GA - she just swaddles piggy firmly in a towel and takes a quick snap which is much better for piggy (and the wallet) than having to be anaesthetised. We've had ultrasound before when a little sow had a mystery problem and again they didn't use GA but they did have to shave her tummy, which she wasn't happy about, and then use a big dollop of gel, which she also wasn't happy about, so although US didn't cause her any pain it did freak her out a bit.

Try to think back to when all this started - was it triggered by the neutering, were there problems before, or did the weight loss perhaps start a few weeks after the op? This will be important esp if you are seeing a new vet. I hope you can find the source of his problems. There have been posters in the past that have reported gut adhesions forming following abdominal surgery such as neutering (possibly triggered by abdominal bacterial infection), but considering the number of pigs that are neutered it doesn't appear to be as common as things like abscesses. Mind you, abscesses tend to appear shortly after the surgery so the link is obvious, but adhesions can take longer to pick up on. I'm not a vet, so I don't know how they would identify these things and what the treatment or prognosis would be.

Hang in there Harold 💕
 
Free Ranger said:
I think that getting a second opinion is completely valid if the pee sample comes through negative - any vet should be able to detect UTI. Your current vets will be only too happy if someone can help your poor boy. If he's losing significant weight there's a physical problem and it's just whether you can find it in time. We'll keep everything crossed for you.

Just to let you know (re the scans mentioned above) that we've had x-ray before to look for stones and my vet doesn't use GA - she just swaddles piggy firmly in a towel and takes a quick snap which is much better for piggy (and the wallet) than having to be anaesthetised. We've had ultrasound before when a little sow had a mystery problem and again they didn't use GA but they did have to shave her tummy, which she wasn't happy about, and then use a big dollop of gel, which she also wasn't happy about, so although US didn't cause her any pain it did freak her out a bit.

Try to think back to when all this started - was it triggered by the neutering, were there problems before, or did the weight loss perhaps start a few weeks after the op? This will be important esp if you are seeing a new vet. I hope you can find the source of his problems. There have been posters in the past that have reported gut adhesions forming following abdominal surgery such as neutering (possibly triggered by abdominal bacterial infection), but considering the number of pigs that are neutered it doesn't appear to be as common as things like abscesses. Mind you, abscesses tend to appear shortly after the surgery so the link is obvious, but adhesions can take longer to pick up on. I'm not a vet, so I don't know how they would identify these things and what the treatment or prognosis would be.

Hang in there Harold 💕
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply,

He defiantly has been dropping the weight since his neutering back in August and he had some issues and an an infection afterwards. They opened him up in as the tubes were infected and cut back as much as they could l. They did mention that they wouldn’t be able to cut back anymore if another infection occurred and that a plan B would need to be found. They have checked it over and there’s no lumps or bumps or signs of infection. But perhaps there’s something more going on that we can see?
My vet does do US with jelly as my previous guinea had to and it was reasonably priced.
I'm pushing for more answers today and if no joy than I will be getting some other advice.
 
Just an update with Harold. We managed to get a urine sample in to the vet on Saturday morning and they have confirmed he had traces of blood in there. His pee is clear so this was surprising but at least it’s something to go on.
He’s now on antibiotics twice daily and loxicom has been topped up to 0.5ml twice a day also.
He’s being syringes fed one every 3 hours so little and often and in between he’s started to eat again 🙏🏻. Not quite the same as before but it’s much better and promising.
His poos now are much bigger and lots of them.
Just feel so mad at myself for not getting to a vet sooner as I realised the weight was gradually dropping last month until he Was all of a sudden very poorly.
 
Don't feel bad - they would have checked him over but like as not they would have had to wait for some sort of 'symptom' before taking any action anyway.
It's so good that he's trying to eat something himself and great that the poops are so much improved. It's reassuring to know they have something in the tank, so to speak, in case they have an off day!

Whether it's the antibiotics, the painkiller, or both that are making the difference he's at least heading in the right direction. ABs usually take at least 24 hours before you start to see a difference and it can be 2 or 3 days. The painkiller should have started to make a difference within hours if that's any help. We're all rooting for you Harold 💕
 
So Harold had another turn yesterday and was off his food and was obviously in pain with the painkillers and anti-biopics doing little work. He was rushed up to the vets first this morning for them to discover he had a stone that needed to be removed. He’s survived the operation with some complications. The vet discovered the stone was starting to make its way down the tube between the kidney and bladder. She made the decision it’s worth removing as she could see it but had to put in some stitches. Our hope is that there is no swelling as this will block the tube completely and as the tube is so small it’s a possibility.
I’m crossing everything for his recovery today 🙏🏻🤞🏻.
So anxious waiting around.
 
Oh no - what an awful shock for you. It's good that he's made it through the op - I'll be thinking of you both over the next few days as he recovers. Hopefully with enough painkiller he'll be starting to eat again soo, although there'll be some syringe feeding in the short term at least. Harold, you've been very brave x
 
I’m sad to say that Harold died about an hour ago in my arms. He was so brave and tried to fight on but it was all just a a bit too much today.
I’m very sad but I know he’ll be pop-Corning over that bridge tonight to find his little friend. Sleep tight my little one. I loved you your whole life and I will miss you for the rest of mine x
 
I'm so sorry for your loss 💔
I lost my big boar Panda following bladder stone surgery a few years back. He made it through but passed a few hours later at home. Stones can be very cruel 😢
Harold would have been comfortable being back in his familiar home with you. He would have known he was much loved x
 
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