How much Baytril is dangerous?

[Princess Dustmop]

I wasn't going to ask, but I have to know ... How much Baytril is toxic for a piggy?

It suffices to say that mistakes were made (not by me, but I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus) and my piggy was given the wrong amount of Baytril. She later died, and I have to know if the Baytril caused it.

She had a uti and was prescribed Baytril; she'd had Baytril before and been fine, but it was a different form and much smaller dose. She was just under 6 years old and averaged about 750g (dainty little girl, always had been). She was given .7ml of a 100 mg/ml formulation of Baytril once a day ... after the first dose (given in the evening) her appetite was affected in the evening but she seemed better in then morning; she got the second dose anyways. She wasn't acting normally after that, and the last piece of lettuce she ate was the following morning, at which point she also seemed to be blind. We started critical care and spoke with the vet, who agreed we could stop the Baytril since she wasn't eating. She wasn't really herself, and we tried to encourage her to eat giving her hay-covered floor time with our other girl (we lost her cagemate about a month earlier to old age, but she seemed to be fine), but she still wouldn't eat and wasn't moving much. We continued critical care over the next couple days. She was breathing funny in the morning after that, and while we phoned the vet, I put her on my tummy and stroked and messaged her tummy to see if there might be bloat or something (she wasn't bloated). Her breathing went back to normal as she cuddled on me, but we still took her to the emergency vet, since she clearly wasn't right (other vet wasn't available for several hours). We explained what had transpired to that point, and they said they hadn't seen such a high overdose (10x the normal recommended) before and recommended calling poison control. They gave her some fluids and pain meds, but she couldn't hold her temperature anymore. She passed away later that day.

Poison control said that the loss of appetite could have occurred at any dose, but that the high dose could have led to neurologic effects. Was it the Baytril that killed her?

 

[Swissgreys]

I am so sorry that you lost your sweet girl.

Sadly without having a full post mortem done it really is impossible to say what the actual cause of death was.
It is clear that you loved her and did everything possible to give her the best life, so be gentle with yourself as you grieve.

 

[Wiebke]

I wasn't going to ask, but I have to know ... How much Baytril is toxic for a piggy?

It suffices to say that mistakes were made (not by me, but I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus) and my piggy was given the wrong amount of Baytril. She later died, and I have to know if the Baytril caused it.

She had a uti and was prescribed Baytril; she'd had Baytril before and been fine, but it was a different form and much smaller dose. She was just under 6 years old and averaged about 750g (dainty little girl, always had been). She was given .7ml of a 100 mg/ml formulation of Baytril once a day ... after the first dose (given in the evening) her appetite was affected in the evening but she seemed better in then morning; she got the second dose anyways. She wasn't acting normally after that, and the last piece of lettuce she ate was the following morning, at which point she also seemed to be blind. We started critical care and spoke with the vet, who agreed we could stop the Baytril since she wasn't eating. She wasn't really herself, and we tried to encourage her to eat giving her hay-covered floor time with our other girl (we lost her cagemate about a month earlier to old age, but she seemed to be fine), but she still wouldn't eat and wasn't moving much. We continued critical care over the next couple days. She was breathing funny in the morning after that, and while we phoned the vet, I put her on my tummy and stroked and messaged her tummy to see if there might be bloat or something (she wasn't bloated). Her breathing went back to normal as she cuddled on me, but we still took her to the emergency vet, since she clearly wasn't right (other vet wasn't available for several hours). We explained what had transpired to that point, and they said they hadn't seen such a high overdose (10x the normal recommended) before and recommended calling poison control. They gave her some fluids and pain meds, but she couldn't hold her temperature anymore. She passed away later that day.

Poison control said that the loss of appetite could have occurred at any dose, but that the high dose could have led to neurologic effects. Was it the Baytril that killed her?

Hi

I am very sorry that I cannot help you. We are not a specialist medical forum, just an owner's forum.

Without a post mortem examination it is impossible to say what exactly is the cause of the death. The people at poison control have the training, experience and resources re. overdoses and their symptoms on a wide range of medications, unlike us on here.

 

[Princess Dustmop]

Okay. I guess I was just wondering if anyone had seen a dose that high before.

I'm sure she's with her cagemate on the other side of the rainbow bridge ... making her nests like she used to. They were together since they were about 6 weeks old. So while they came from two different places, I'm pretty sure they viewed each other as sisters.

 

[Seven7]

Okay. I guess I was just wondering if anyone had seen a dose that high before.

I'm sure she's with her cagemate on the other side of the rainbow bridge ... making her nests like she used to. They were together since they were about 6 weeks old. So while they came from two different places, I'm pretty sure they viewed each other as sisters.

Seeing you are in the USA, I can tell you exactly what my Bear’s doctor prescribed for him.

 

[Seven7]

My Bear is 5 month old newest member of our family. When Bear came to live with us, almost immediately, I had to take him to Dr. Jayne and Dr. Jayne gave him Baytril.

Baytril liquid 20 mg/ml
Direction—GIVE .2ML BY MOUTH EVERY 12 HOURS FOR 10 DAYS. REFRIGERATE AND SHAKE BEFORE USING.

Dr. gave me syringe marked .2ML and I refrigerated it after every use.

 

[Seven7]

.7ML is too much. My syringe was marked at .2ML.

 

[Princess Dustmop]

Yeah, the enrofloxacin dose she'd had before was .3 ml of 22.7 mg/ml apple suspension, twice a day, or about 13.62 mg per day. Normal recommended is up to 10 mg/kg, which would be 7.5 mg for a 750 gram piggy, though the 14 didn't seem to be an issue. .7 ml of 100mg/ml is 70mg per day, which is 5 times the dose she'd previously had and tolerated well (though sometimes needed a longer course).

 

[Deleted member 148738]

That is a high does! We took one of our piggies to the vet for an ear infection and she was given 2.5ml for the whole week

 

[Ginger8587]

I wasn't going to ask, but I have to know ... How much Baytril is toxic for a piggy?

It suffices to say that mistakes were made (not by me, but I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus) and my piggy was given the wrong amount of Baytril. She later died, and I have to know if the Baytril caused it.

She had a uti and was prescribed Baytril; she'd had Baytril before and been fine, but it was a different form and much smaller dose. She was just under 6 years old and averaged about 750g (dainty little girl, always had been). She was given .7ml of a 100 mg/ml formulation of Baytril once a day ... after the first dose (given in the evening) her appetite was affected in the evening but she seemed better in then morning; she got the second dose anyways. She wasn't acting normally after that, and the last piece of lettuce she ate was the following morning, at which point she also seemed to be blind. We started critical care and spoke with the vet, who agreed we could stop the Baytril since she wasn't eating. She wasn't really herself, and we tried to encourage her to eat giving her hay-covered floor time with our other girl (we lost her cagemate about a month earlier to old age, but she seemed to be fine), but she still wouldn't eat and wasn't moving much. We continued critical care over the next couple days. She was breathing funny in the morning after that, and while we phoned the vet, I put her on my tummy and stroked and messaged her tummy to see if there might be bloat or something (she wasn't bloated). Her breathing went back to normal as she cuddled on me, but we still took her to the emergency vet, since she clearly wasn't right (other vet wasn't available for several hours). We explained what had transpired to that point, and they said they hadn't seen such a high overdose (10x the normal recommended) before and recommended calling poison control. They gave her some fluids and pain meds, but she couldn't hold her temperature anymore. She passed away later that day.

Poison control said that the loss of appetite could have occurred at any dose, but that the high dose could have led to neurologic effects. Was it the Baytril that killed her?

 

[Ginger8587]

I know. exactly what you are going through, I had almost the same thing happen to me. My Mr
piggy Fats had stopped eating so I was syringe feeding brought him to the vets and the vet prescribed him a very. high dose of baytril, He was eating a little before the Baytril but after he was totally lethargic, not eating, his poops were like seeds. so i brought him back to the vets for a supposed radio graph, which i am positive they charged me like 300 or so and they didnt do it. They wont give me. his medical records either. but when he was at the vets they said basically he would be fine i only. gave him 1 to 2 ml of critical care ( which i later realized was past its date by. over 2 years?) every 3 to 4 hours. I knew that was wrong rhanks to this forum and the helpful people on it. He was 2 lbs 9 but after a week on baytril he was only 900 grams it was awful the neglectful vet and the Baytril killed him. I am actually having them investigated by the Veteranarian medical board because they broke so many of the laws Oregon has in place its not even funny. After he died o started looking into it and there are 5 or so reviews. on Google about them basically killing peoples pets with lack of knowledge, neglect and I decided to get an investigation going cause its wrong and I lost my best friend cause of taking him to the vets. when an animal comes back way worse off than they were it kinda tells you something. Also they didn't give any reason for. the Baytril he did not have any infections. I feel for you and i( I'm not a professional)But With what happend to my piggy on baytril and there are quite few other. negative stories about it and guineapigs i think it probaly was a. big part in your furbaby dying. It kills a. guineapigs gut flori and makes them lose. there appetites.The vets gave my piggy 5 ml for a whole week.

Okay. I guess I was just wondering if anyone had seen a dose that high before.

I'm sure she's with her cagemate on the other side of the rainbow bridge ... making her nests like she used to. They were together since they were about 6 weeks old. So while they came from two different places, I'm pretty sure they viewed each other as sisters.

 

[Princess Dustmop]

My piggy did have a nasty UTI, so Baytril wasn'ta surprise, just the dosage. We did also do radiograph, but we did them before to check for kidney stone, which there was one, though it was a secondary concern to the uti. $300+ sounds right for two angles; I can't speak to not giving you the records, as I've never encountered that issue. I feel that my piggy got a high dose because of a lack of cross checks. I don't like one of the front desk people, but we didn't like him before either, so that's not really related. I wish I'd called poison control earlier; that was my biggest regret over the situation. The vet did follow up, and sent a very nice condolences note.
We will be taking the current piggies to a different vet, but the previous vet's terrible parking (if you can get in there ...), not letting people in the building (most are at this point), obsession with texting (bleh), and distance/traffic (ugh) were contributing factors. We've taken piggies to the "new" veterinarian before, but she changed practices (a good thing).

5ml? Or .5ml? 5ml is a lot ... that's a teaspoon. Most guinea pig medications are given with a 1ml syringe ... Concentration matters, as well. A low concentration needs a higher amount, and a higher concentration means a smaller amount for the same dose in mg.
Any dose of antibiotics, such as Baytril can cause gastro upset and loss of appetite; the apparent blindness was not normal.

 

[Free Ranger]

I'm so sorry for your loss

I'm not a vet or anything like that. My vet has prescribed a range of volumes but they have always used Baytril oral solution 2.5% which is 25mg in each ml of product. We keep it at room temp - although under 25 degC (that's not hard here!) There is an acceptable range of active doses - some shorter term, some longer term - but the MSD veterinary manual recommends 5 -10 mgs per kg of pig (twice a day) which would be between 0.2 and 0.4ml of 2.5% and that's what we typically get. Now I'm pretty certain I've had something like 0.7mls (about 17mgs, twice a day) prescribed before and only noticed because that's quite a lot of bitter medicine to get down an unwilling piggy so I questioned the vet about it. She was a young one, and dead good (she'd spotted something in one of my pigs before that 3 other vets had missed!) and had an eastern European accent so may have trained in her home country and been used to different routines. She said that yes, it was higher than normal but in her experience walloping the infection with this dose over 5 days was more effective that a week on 0.4ml because of increasing resistance to Baytril. That little sow had no ill effects and the vet was dead right.

BUT there is also a 10% oral solution on the market here which contains 100mg in each ml - sounds like you got this sort of thing. In this country the target species for that concentration are chickens, turkeys and rabbits (I suspect it's animals intended for consumption as meat) whereas the 2.5% is meant for reptiles, small exotics like piggies, or calves strangely enough (and not poultry). You are right in that 0.7ml of this would contain 70mgs and twice a day is 140mgs and your girl was under a kilo. That's a lot, even in my ignorance.

I don't know what piggy tolerance is like, and I don't know the symptoms of overdose. I can't say what killed your poorly girl or whether she would have pulled through if she'd been a bit younger - maybe it was a stroke, maybe it was just her time. But I do think that prescribing a typical volume of the 'wrong' type of solution would be an easy mistake to make. But whether a mistake was made in calculation or communication by the vet or the person dispensing the drug picked up the wrong bottle I don't know. And I might be completely wrong of course because after all if the 10% solution is OK for rabbits and some rabbits are pretty small... but then would they have been given a tiny volume. Hmmm. Or maybe it was actually an appropriate, more dilute baytril solution and the mistake was labelling the bottle wrong...

It would surprise me if there were no records of what you had been prescribed... certainly when my vet e-mails a receipt it's always an itemised list of what was given/done and on what date. I also tend to hang on to old bottles of med for a bit if they're still in date because it can often save a bit of money if you are back at the vet in the next few months with something else (and with my old dodderers we've had a few runs). I think we'd generally say that here in the UK we're not a particularly litigious society but without malice - and with the memory of loss upon you - it could be very important to the next guinea pig that ends up at the vet that they double check next time? If they did something completely valid and it just went the wrong way for your poor old girl that's rotten luck, but if they made a mistake I'm sure they'd not want to repeat that. You'd have to be diplomatic... but you could always ask the advice of the 'new' vet?

Whether it was a mistake or just unfortunate I'm so sorry this has happened to you x

 

[Princess Dustmop]

It was once a day for the high dose, not twice, but still way higher than normal. The label and the paperwork that came with it matched ... wedidn't see the vet scribbles, since we couldn't go in, it just came out; we only spoke with him over the phone, where he stated the volume on the prescription though not the concentration (normal enough ... instructions wouldn't need to state what concentration is, since the owner isn't mixing or diluting, just measuring).
When we first called back, we were told we could stop for the weekend, since he wasn't in but they called him; when we called the following week (Wednesday maybe?), he yammered something high dose for a short length of time in cats, but that didn't really match up with the .7ml for 7 days he'd stated at the initial appointment. I think it may have been more of a reassurance that things could be okay than an explanation ... We wish we'd questioned the dosage harder earlier ... we won't make the same mistake again, no matter how much we trust the person.

She's with her cage mate now, making her nests (to poo in), jumping through heaps of hay, ripping the paper out from under the bedding to do arts&crafts, and stealing veggies out of one another's mouths ... and she can have all the parsley she wants.