How long for a trio to bond?

[leight17]

Hi

I'm after some advice regarding bonding. We have 2 sows who have been together for 2 years (ages 2 and 3). They get on well, aren't super close but have no issues and make a lovely pair. Due to a bereavement in my sisters pair of guinea pigs she was left with a single sow (unsure of age but not a baby). We have had a try at bonding them which hasn't been very successful and I was wondering how long to continue trying for? Or if its gone pear-shaped straight away is that usually it? We have had the new sow for 4 days at the time of writing this and have had 4 attempts at bonding.

The younger sow from the original pair is very dominant and spends the majority of the time shuddering, teeth chattering, chasing and trying to mount. The new sow stands in a corner frozen before it gets too much and she runs away which usually escalates in a crazy chase. There has been a big squabble/fight the second meeting they had which we separated. The original pair have also started turning on each other when it has all got a bit much and I'm worried their relationship will change if we continue. I don't want to give up too soon however do not want the Guinea pigs under any more stress than they have been already. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you

Claire

 

[Piggies&buns]

I'm sorry to say it sounds like this will never work. Acceptance is not happening and therefore there will not be a chance of things improving. Sows can be unwilling to accept a third into a pair and they older they get the less accepting they can become.

Bonding is a one time thing - put them on neutral territory and it either works out or it doesn’t in that one meeting.
If a bonding attempt is aborted (perhaps due to fear aggression for example), and things seem on the fence, then it is worth trying a second but being prepared that it may not work.
However, if things clearly failed at the first go, then it is not worth trying a second. As you did try a second and it caused a fight then that is definitive evidence that they are not compatible and a bonding will not work - after one fight then it is never worth trying again as it will just cause another fight and, as you are finding, there is sometimes the risk of affecting the relationship of the original pair.

Can you confirm though, did you ensure the attempts you did make aere on neutral territory with no hides, and that the cage was big enough for a trio (a 2x5 c&c or 180x60cm)

 

[leight17]

Thank you so much for your reply. Yes we did it in neutral territory in a very large pen outside on the grass with lots of hay for a few hours and the first meeting went well. We then put them in a divided cage which we are not sure now was the best idea but at the time we thought that best. We saw some aggression at the divide from the dominant sow. We tried again on neutral territory the following day and things got progressively worse. The small windows of time where the dominant sow is not shuddering and showing aggression, the new sow is still isolated and never tries to join the group which is heartbreaking. As sad as it is that the bond has failed I would prefer to now know for sure so we can move forward with ensuring the new sow has a companion she can bond with.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you so much for your reply. Yes we did it in neutral territory in a very large pen outside on the grass with lots of hay for a few hours and the first meeting went well. We then put them in a divided cage which we are not sure now was the best idea but at the time we thought that best. We saw some aggression at the divide from the dominant sow. We tried again on neutral territory the following day and things got progressively worse. The small windows of time where the dominant sow is not shuddering and showing aggression, the new sow is still isolated and never tries to join the group which is heartbreaking. As sad as it is that the bond has failed I would prefer to now know for sure so we can move forward with ensuring the new sow has a companion she can bond with.

Unfortunately any time you put piggies together but then abort the bonding by separating them, the bonding is interrupted and undone and means they need to start right from the beginning the next time you try to put them together. You only separate piggies and end a bonding session if it clearly fails, otherwise once they are put together they need to remain together.

With that said, as it does take two weeks of being permanently together for them to fully form a relationship, there is a chance that even if it initially seems to go well, that things can change during that two week period and the bonding ultimately fails if they cannot come to agreement over the finer details of their relationship.

Sadly it doesnt sound like they are compatible but they will be happier apart.

 

[leight17]

Unfortunately any time you put piggies together but then abort the bonding by separating them, the bonding is interrupted and undone and means they need to start right from the beginning the next time you try to put them together. You only separate piggies and end a bonding session if it clearly fails, otherwise once they are put together they need to remain together.

With that said, as it does take two weeks of being permanently together for them to fully form a relationship, there is a chance that even if it initially seems to go well, that things can change during that two week period and the bonding ultimately fails if they cannot come to agreement over the finer details of their relationship.

Sadly it doesnt sound like they are compatible but they will be happier apart.

Thank you so much for your help!