Hip pain? (Long post)

[MP95]

Hi all,
I’ve been trying to get some help for one of my piggies and am honestly at a bit of a loss with what to do and wondered if some more experienced minds could help.
So, myself and my partner have been noticing that Chip (crested boar) has been very sensitive to anyone touching his hips and pelvic area, biting us if we persist with grooming him and (at one point) off his hard foods.
We took him to the vets a few weeks ago because of his new issues with certain foods thinking that it might be dental problems. Luckily, his teeth are all absolutely fine (from what he let us see!) but the vet did a body exam and came across the same issue of a lot of pain in his lower spine/hip area. With no clear reason why, we were given Loxicom for him and a follow up call with a possibility of an X-ray if the vet saw cause for it.
Fast-forward to the e follow up and since Chip was doing well on the pain killers, they saw no reason to X-ray him and lowered his dose of Loxicom by half.
Over the weekend, we ended up at the emergency vet because, out of nowhere, he squeaked in pain while straining. The vet there said the only way that we’ll know if he’s okay is with an X-ray but wouldn’t offer him one at the time since it wasn’t an emergency.
I’ve also noticed over the last few days that he’s getting more agitated again, biting us again and now squeaking every time he grooms himself around his hips.

My question is, should I ask that his vet do an X-ray to rule out anything or should I just carry on with the medication dose he has for the next week and see how he is off the medication once the course is over? I want to do what’s best for him but I don’t want to do the wrong thing!

 

[weepweeps]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Poor Chip. I think if it was me I’d put the loxicom back up to the first dose and get an X-ray to see what’s going on. Good luck.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Welcome to the forum.
Definitely speak to the vet again.
There could be several things causing pain from that area and really the only way to know is with the x ray and further checks - I would personally ask for them to be done.
What dose of painkiller was he On? What is he now on?

How old is he?

 

[MP95]

Welcome to the forum.

Definitely speak to the vet again.
There could be several things causing pain from that area and really the only way to know is with the x ray and further checks - I would personally ask for them to be done.
What dose of painkiller was he On? What is he now on?

How old is he?

Hi! Thank you for your advice! He’s around four years old (we think)! He was on 0.24ml for seven days then stepped down to 0.12ml and it was within five days of the lower dose that he started worrying me.

I know from my own health that just because you have pain relief it doesn’t cure you but I wasn’t keen on speaking out against the vet in case I would be putting him in harms way by asking for unnecessary tests but I do wish I had pushed when I wanted to…

 

[Swissgreys]

How is he moving around the cage?
I would be tempted to have the x-rays done as it may be useful to rule out several issues such as arthritis, bladder stones, etc.
I would also ask for a skin sample to be taken to check for mites.
These are not visible to the naked eye and although they usually cause issues higher up the body (around the shoulder area) it might also be worth checking if you are already at the vet anyway.

Is his pain relief being given as 2 doses a day - this is very important as guinea pigs metabolise it too quickly for a single dose to be effective.
And what strength is the painkiller he has been prescribed?

 

[MP95]

How is he moving around the cage?
I would be tempted to have the x-rays done as it may be useful to rule out several issues such as arthritis, bladder stones, etc.
I would also ask for a skin sample to be taken to check for mites.
These are not visible to the naked eye and although they usually cause issues higher up the body (around the shoulder area) it might also be worth checking if you are already at the vet anyway.

Is his pain relief being given as 2 doses a day - this is very important as guinea pigs metabolise it too quickly for a single dose to be effective.
And what strength is the painkiller he has been prescribed?

Wow, now the metabolism rate for meds is totally new to me! He’s only been on a single dose of Loxicom (0.24ml initially then lowered to 0.12ml). Would it be beneficial for us to do an ivermectin treatment for him and his brother as a precaution to see if that helps him?

At the moment, he seems to be moving okay, when he was on the higher doses it was the first time I’d seen him jog at all and a proper popcorn, but now he’s back to keeping himself in his dens and trying to avoid as much physical activity as he's able to. He’s still eating well for now but I’m concer that he’ll avoid hard foods again when the pain relief is gone.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Wow, now the metabolism rate for meds is totally new to me! He’s only been on a single dose of Loxicom (0.24ml initially then lowered to 0.12ml). Would it be beneficial for us to do an ivermectin treatment for him and his brother as a precaution to see if that helps him?

At the moment, he seems to be moving okay, when he was on the higher doses it was the first time I’d seen him jog at all and a proper popcorn, but now he’s back to keeping himself in his dens and trying to avoid as much physical activity as he's able to. He’s still eating well for now but I’m concer that he’ll avoid hard foods again when the pain relief is gone.

They metabolise pain meds in around 12 hours, so only giving pain meds once every 24 hours means they are only covered for 12 of those.

Make sure you switch from the weekly weight checks and instead weigh him daily while he is unwell as it is the only way for you to know he is eating enough hay.

It is best to have a vet check for mites first and only treat as part of the correct course (which is three separate treatments with two weeks between each treatment) . Don’t treat preventatively or potentially unnecessarily

 

[AidaB]

It sounds similar to what we have been going through.
Our Hamish was very reclusive towards the end of August. We saw our local vets, decided we needed a second opinion and then saw a very knowledgeable vet.
The vet believes that Hamish has muscular pain at the base of his spine. Hamish is less reactive with his right back leg when tested, but day to day you can’t tell.

He now goes about his daily piggy business as usual, including the occasional popcorn. Hamish is on long term pain relief(Loxicom) twice a day. We have tried to reduce it, but he went back to being a recluse.
It was decided in Hamish’s situation an X-ray wouldn’t change how he was to be treated.
We have a check up with the vet in a couple of weeks & to see if perhaps now an X-ray would be beneficial.

Healing wheeks to Chip, hope he starts to feel better soon.

 

[Merab]

Just offering support

 

[MP95]

It sounds similar to what we have been going through.
Our Hamish was very reclusive towards the end of August. We saw our local vets, decided we needed a second opinion and then saw a very knowledgeable vet.
The vet believes that Hamish has muscular pain at the base of his spine. Hamish is less reactive with his right back leg when tested, but day to day you can’t tell.

He now goes about his daily piggy business as usual, including the occasional popcorn. Hamish is on long term pain relief(Loxicom) twice a day. We have tried to reduce it, but he went back to being a recluse.
It was decided in Hamish’s situation an X-ray wouldn’t change how he was to be treated.
We have a check up with the vet in a couple of weeks & to see if perhaps now an X-ray would be beneficial.

Healing wheeks to Chip, hope he starts to feel better soon.

I’m very interested to hear what comes of your visit for Hamish, it does sound very similar in symptoms on the surface. How long have you been giving long-term Loxicom? Have you had any issues with digestion and motility from it?

I’m to have a chat with his vet on Friday but I don’t know how useful it will be because it seems they aren’t used to having cavies in clinic for anything more than health checks at best. I just hope that we can come up with a plan for him so he isn’t uncomfortable or in pain until we can get some imaging done.

Keep me posted on your progress with Hamish!

 

[MP95]

They metabolise pain meds in around 12 hours, so only giving pain meds once every 24 hours means they are only covered for 12 of those.

Make sure you switch from the weekly weight checks and instead weigh him daily while he is unwell as it is the only way for you to know he is eating enough hay.

It is best to have a vet check for mites first and only treat as part of the correct course (which is three separate treatments with two weeks between each treatment) . Don’t treat preventatively or potentially unnecessarily

That’s extremely useful info! I’ll make sure to bring my vet aware of that and hopefully get his medication spaced out a little more to cover him throughout the day. I do try to give him the medication at midday when everyone is a little more active but if there’s anything more we can do for him I’ll always push for it!
I’ll add a daily weight to our routine for him too to make sure we’re covering all bases.

I’m hoping that it won’t be too difficult to get the vet to rule out mites (you never know what the reaction might be to someone asking for tests). It’s certainly something that skipped my mind so is worth looking at more closely. I’m so grateful for your advice! Thank you so much!

 

[AidaB]

I’m very interested to hear what comes of your visit for Hamish, it does sound very similar in symptoms on the surface. How long have you been giving long-term Loxicom? Have you had any issues with digestion and motility from it?

I’m to have a chat with his vet on Friday but I don’t know how useful it will be because it seems they aren’t used to having cavies in clinic for anything more than health checks at best. I just hope that we can come up with a plan for him so he isn’t uncomfortable or in pain until we can get some imaging done.

Keep me posted on your progress with Hamish!

Hamish has been on pain relief since the end of August, he has had no problems with digestion etc. He eats well, and maintains his weight well, with the pain relief.
We do have a check up every 6months for as long as we continue to use pain relief daily.
He does has an improved quality of life, and is a much happier guinea pig.

I can‘t remember the vets exact wording, but I think it was something along the lines of there have not been any studies done on the longterm usage of loxicom/metacam in piggies, however in their experience it has not been a problem to be on pain relief longterm. A lot of piggies with arthritis also have long term pain relief.

I hope your vet visit goes well, and you can get some answers.

 

[Free Ranger]

George is 6 and has had twice daily metacam (the same active ingredient as loxicom) for arthritis since he was 3 1/2. He was on about 0.25ml twice a day (morning and evening). He's had that bumped up a bit to 0.35ml as he now has a bladder stone and a stubborn antibiotic resistant UTI we are trying to deal with. George likes his metacam and has not had any problems on it.

The metacam is the 'dog strength' one which is 1.5mg/ml. There is also a 'cat strength' one which is weaker: 0.5mg/ml. This one is licensed for pigs too but this only happened in the past few years so some vets are still happy to give the dog version. When they were both unlicensed the dog version could be prescribed in smaller volumes. But some vets stick hard to the licensing rules and only offer the cat version - generally in similar volumes - so the painkiller is 1/3 the amount. Mine let me sign a waiver.

George benefitted from the metacam but also got great benefit from a glucosamine supplement. This can help with arthritis and also bladder problems. It's a food supplement, not a medicine, so it does not need a prescription. I actually started to give it to George only because I inherited a bag of oxbow joint support biscuits from my friend whose elderly rabbit had passed. They are not cheap - about £11 a bag - and you don't see the benefit for a few weeks. After a couple of weeks I thought he might be moving about more but after a month it was very clear to see he was much more active and following his ladies out into the kitchen. There are other forms of glucosamine but these suited us and were made specifically for small herbivores. The fact he regards the biccie as a treat also helped!

George's arthritis was diagnosed without x-ray. He had stiff, creaky knees at the back and he had hair in his teeth a lot - he was nibbling at his sore joints. The vet pulled back the gum pocket on the lower incisors and spotted it. This was something else that vanished as the glucosamine took effect. If you boy has arthritis it can be managed to give him a better quality of life, but it is important that they rule out anything else. I would ask about the x-ray: my vet can do a conscious one with piggy wrapped in a towel. Sometimes they like to give 'a whiff of gas' that knocks piggy out for a short time while they get their pic. Anything more than that would make me wary as general anaesthetic is a risk for pigs. But if they can reassure you that he will be comfortable and not have his legs pulled about too much to get a position right I'd be keen to rule out alternative issues.

Mites in an arthritic pig can pose a sneaky problem as you don't see them scratch so much if they are stiff! But his cage mate should be an indicator. Generally it's scratching and shedding that are the first signs rather than this sort of pain and stiffness you are describing. When they visit a vet they should be routinely checked over anyway.

One final thing, George loves heat pads, hot water bottles, soft fleecy surfaces and cushions etc. Physical comfort is very important to him especially now in his old age. He's the one here on the cushion!

 

[MP95]

George is 6 and has had twice daily metacam (the same active ingredient as loxicom) for arthritis since he was 3 1/2. He was on about 0.25ml twice a day (morning and evening). He's had that bumped up a bit to 0.35ml as he now has a bladder stone and a stubborn antibiotic resistant UTI we are trying to deal with. George likes his metacam and has not had any problems on it.

The metacam is the 'dog strength' one which is 1.5mg/ml. There is also a 'cat strength' one which is weaker: 0.5mg/ml. This one is licensed for pigs too but this only happened in the past few years so some vets are still happy to give the dog version. When they were both unlicensed the dog version could be prescribed in smaller volumes. But some vets stick hard to the licensing rules and only offer the cat version - generally in similar volumes - so the painkiller is 1/3 the amount. Mine let me sign a waiver.

George benefitted from the metacam but also got great benefit from a glucosamine supplement. This can help with arthritis and also bladder problems. It's a food supplement, not a medicine, so it does not need a prescription. I actually started to give it to George only because I inherited a bag of oxbow joint support biscuits from my friend whose elderly rabbit had passed. They are not cheap - about £11 a bag - and you don't see the benefit for a few weeks. After a couple of weeks I thought he might be moving about more but after a month it was very clear to see he was much more active and following his ladies out into the kitchen. There are other forms of glucosamine but these suited us and were made specifically for small herbivores. The fact he regards the biccie as a treat also helped!

George's arthritis was diagnosed without x-ray. He had stiff, creaky knees at the back and he had hair in his teeth a lot - he was nibbling at his sore joints. The vet pulled back the gum pocket on the lower incisors and spotted it. This was something else that vanished as the glucosamine took effect. If you boy has arthritis it can be managed to give him a better quality of life, but it is important that they rule out anything else. I would ask about the x-ray: my vet can do a conscious one with piggy wrapped in a towel. Sometimes they like to give 'a whiff of gas' that knocks piggy out for a short time while they get their pic. Anything more than that would make me wary as general anaesthetic is a risk for pigs. But if they can reassure you that he will be comfortable and not have his legs pulled about too much to get a position right I'd be keen to rule out alternative issues.

Mites in an arthritic pig can pose a sneaky problem as you don't see them scratch so much if they are stiff! But his cage mate should be an indicator. Generally it's scratching and shedding that are the first signs rather than this sort of pain and stiffness you are describing. When they visit a vet they should be routinely checked over anyway.

One final thing, George loves heat pads, hot water bottles, soft fleecy surfaces and cushions etc. Physical comfort is very important to him especially now in his old age. He's the one here on the cushion!
View attachment 214739

George sounds like such a sweet little cuddle bug!
I had wondered about arthritis in Chip. Totally different ballgame, but I used to work in the NHS so I do check his legs often for any creaky feelings when I’m clipping his nails and he does have good clean movements there with no heat or swelling.
I have been interested in trying the Oxbow joint support ‘treats’ to see if that could help him so thank you for sharing your experience with them! I usually give them the vitamin C ones which both boys love!

I am in the process of making them fleece liners too which should help him feel more comfortable. And thank you for sharing your experience with long-term Loxico. Chip’s on the cat strength right now but it’s good to know that there are higher strengths they can have (even if it’s not the norm).

I haven’t noticed his brother, Bunny, showing any signs of mites but it’s still worth ruling out. Especially if you’ve found it harder to spot with a piggy in pain. I just hope that we can help him so he can run around like Bunny does!

 

[Free Ranger]

The last time we had them it was tricky to spot. Flora (the one at the top) was the newest addition and had probably brought them in but I didn't notice any scratching. Then George started to do this thing where he would suddenly sit up and look like he was about to do something... but then just settle back down. Fluffy Louise would do this crazy thing where she raised a back leg as if to scratch... but then just waved it slowly around in the air! The giveaway was when Flora spent the night curled up on a fluffy white fleece and next morning I saw her stand up and jump down off the shelf - but she left a Flora-shaped 'shadow' of hair behind her! Suddenly all the pieces came together. I guess I was lucky we spotted it before anyone got seriously upset. Xeno stopped the shadow, the sit-ups and the crazy floating leg (although I do wish I'd got that on film!)

Good luck boys x

 

[MP95]

Oh my god, Guinea pig yoga that must’ve been really odd though! Was the Xeno a one-time treatment or did you have to have a course? I’m so curious in a gross way!

I had the follow-up with Chip’s vet this afternoon. They’re allowing us to up his meds back to the original dose but we’re going to try to stage it to twice a day and hopefully he’ll feel better when he’s covered throughout the night too. They’re also going to get him in for an x-ray to make sure there’s not any obvious issues like bladder stones or skeletal problems, so I’m now in that weird mindset where I don’t want there to be anything but on the other hand, if there’s something we can see it’ll be easier to treat or manage!
They kind of didn’t feel it necessary to check for mites because when they did his initial exam he couldn’t feel or see any obvious signs of them like scaley skin or excessive hair loss. I do check his skin regularly anyway so hopefully we don’t see any signs later on.

 

[AidaB]

I had the follow-up with Chip’s vet this afternoon. They’re allowing us to up his meds back to the original dose but we’re going to try to stage it to twice a day and hopefully he’ll feel better when he’s covered throughout the night too. They’re also going to get him in for an x-ray to make sure there’s not any obvious issues like bladder stones or skeletal problems, so I’m now in that weird mindset where I don’t want there to be anything but on the other hand, if there’s something we can see it’ll be easier to treat or manage!
They kind of didn’t feel it necessary to check for mites because when they did his initial exam he couldn’t feel or see any obvious signs of them like scaley skin or excessive hair loss. I do check his skin regularly anyway so hopefully we don’t see any signs later on.

Thats good news that you can give meds twice a day, hope it helps Chip feel more comfortable.
Hope the xray gives you some answers.

 

[MP95]

Thats good news that you can give meds twice a day, hope it helps Chip feel more comfortable.
Hope the xray gives you some answers.

Thank you for all of your advice! I wouldn’t be feeling as optimistic if you didn’t share your experience with Hamish. I hope both your x-rays go okay and he carries on popcorning his little heart out

 

[Free Ranger]

Was the Xeno a one-time treatment or did you have to have a course?

It's always a course. Three treatments each, two weeks apart. That's each pig - not just the itchy one - or the others just harbour them! So for my 3 hefty pigs that was 9 pipettes of xeno-450. My poor wallet!

Good luck with your x-ray x

 

[MP95]

It's always a course. Three treatments each, two weeks apart. That's each pig - not just the itchy one - or the others just harbour them! So for my 3 hefty pigs that was 9 pipettes of xeno-450. My poor wallet!

Good luck with your x-ray x

Wow! It’s all these little things that most new piggie parents don’t realise costs so much! Our costs have gone way up trying to get as much as we can to help out our little man. I’m just hoping that the other stays as healthy as he is, I’ve lost lots of sleep worrying about him.
Thank you! He’s going in at the end of the week, I’m just looking forward to getting him back to health…

 

[MP95]

I have a little bit of an update:
So Chip will be getting his x-rays at the end of the week, but last night he suddenly got very mucosal, soft and sticky stool he’s a very unhappy man not getting his daily dose of veggies! But it’s just odd how all of this has happened in such succession. We’ve ordered a priority delivery of probiotics for him.
He seems to be okay in himself, I’m even hesitant to say a little more comfortable since increasing his pain killers. We even got to have a proper cuddle for the first time in days where he was just his usual loving self.
Does anyone have any experience with all of his symptoms? The hip/back pain, bowel issues and now unusual poops?
I don’t know if they’re all connected, either by the stress of going to vets and meds or something else? If you have any other ideas, I’m so open to them.

 

[AidaB]

Oh no, I am sorry to hear about Chip.
I have no ideas, Just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you.
(Our other boy Hector has had a few dodgy poos over the last 24hrs, so no veg tonight here either!)

 

[MP95]

Oh no, I am sorry to hear about Chip.
I have no ideas, Just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you.
(Our other boy Hector has had a few dodgy poos over the last 24hrs, so no veg tonight here either!)

It’s the worst! our kitchen is right next to them so every time I open the fridge I hear them and they stand by their door waiting! I feel so mean but I know that he’ll be better off for it. We try to sneak his brother some veggies but he knows

 

[Free Ranger]

What is he on in terms of meds and supplements? We had something similar with George recently but it seemed to be triggered by Feliway cystease.

I've never had a problem with metacam or loxicom upsetting tummies. George had 5 days on Baytril when he first started with bladder problems back in October. This didn't help his UTI and he went straight onto Septrin (which is actually supposed to be more gentle on the tummy). He was OK for this 5 days in terms of his appetite although it probably did put a strain on his tummy. But because he'd started to not eat all of his glucosamine lozenge I thought I'd give the Feliway cystease a try instead. This has more glucosamine (something like 120 instead of 90mg) and is well used on the forum especially for bladder problem piggies. BUT for whatever reason it seemed to disagree with George and the day after he started with soft and sticky poos, and passing alarming jelly-like mucous. He seemed to be uncomfortable pooping and he stopped eating and hid away - at that point I took him off everything except his painkiller until we managed to get him right. He looked really rough - I actually took him to the vet to discuss his limits for pts - it was a horrible few days. I did keep him on his veg though, as it was the only thing he was eating properly, and I started to grind his glucosamine lozenge and mix it with Recovery food to balance out his fibre intake. It was really tempting to think that it must have been the 10 days of antibiotics but it did seem to be the cystease that tipped the balance for him.

This past week he's been back on Septrin because of course the UTI came straight back, and he's been having probiotic and poop soup mixed in with the Recovery. He seems to have gotten back on top of his digestion, his poops are much better and he's back eating hay again. He's a lot thinner, but because he has a significant bladder stone he won't actually 'get better' - we're just trying to get on top of the UTI because apart from that he's generally doing OK.

 

[MP95]

What is he on in terms of meds and supplements? We had something similar with George recently but it seemed to be triggered by Feliway cystease.

I've never had a problem with metacam or loxicom upsetting tummies. George had 5 days on Baytril when he first started with bladder problems back in October. This didn't help his UTI and he went straight onto Septrin (which is actually supposed to be more gentle on the tummy). He was OK for this 5 days in terms of his appetite although it probably did put a strain on his tummy. But because he'd started to not eat all of his glucosamine lozenge I thought I'd give the Feliway cystease a try instead. This has more glucosamine (something like 120 instead of 90mg) and is well used on the forum especially for bladder problem piggies. BUT for whatever reason it seemed to disagree with George and the day after he started with soft and sticky poos, and passing alarming jelly-like mucous. He seemed to be uncomfortable pooping and he stopped eating and hid away - at that point I took him off everything except his painkiller until we managed to get him right. He looked really rough - I actually took him to the vet to discuss his limits for pts - it was a horrible few days. I did keep him on his veg though, as it was the only thing he was eating properly, and I started to grind his glucosamine lozenge and mix it with Recovery food to balance out his fibre intake. It was really tempting to think that it must have been the 10 days of antibiotics but it did seem to be the cystease that tipped the balance for him.

This past week he's been back on Septrin because of course the UTI came straight back, and he's been having probiotic and poop soup mixed in with the Recovery. He seems to have gotten back on top of his digestion, his poops are much better and he's back eating hay again. He's a lot thinner, but because he has a significant bladder stone he won't actually 'get better' - we're just trying to get on top of the UTI because apart from that he's generally doing OK.

We’re giving him Loxicom 0.24ml a day, and a vitamin C supplement for now. We’ve got Pro C probiotic arriving tomorrow which has vit C in it so should help him with any deficits while he’s having a poorly tummy. I’m just really looking forward to getting these X-rays done and hopefully we’ll get some idea of what to do! He seems to be feeling okay without any veggies and since his pain meds have been brought back up he’s more comfortable. I just feel so underprepared for all of this and at a total loss!
I also ordered the oxbow joint support treats but I don’t know if I should hold off on giving him them until his tummy is better?

Poor George! He’s had a really rough time of it. I didn’t know that some bladder stones can cause persistent UTI’s. I hope that he feels better soon