Help With Post Op Rebonding - Second Opinions Needed Urgently

[oxtinamona]

Hi all,
We are rebonding ( or trying) Penelope and Presley.
Presley had abscess 2.5 months ago and he recovered fully however when I put him back with Penelope about 2.5 weeks after the op she evidently rejected his authority and started launching herself at him.

Now over 2 months later we decided to bond them as otherwise the cages they are in just meet the minimum size and I don't think pigs should be alone

Anyway. We stared burning yesterday at approx 6:30pm. It's started off well but that's probably due to food.

They've been showing normal dominance behaviours on and off... at last I think they're normal but I hardly had any sleep as stated with them in the living room and my judgment may be wrong.
They settled around 5:30 am , but they had clearly a little scrap which resulted in Presley's lip getting a cut. It's not major but still - should I be worried ? I suspect a misjudged nip but still...

In the morning after their breakfast ( approx 7:30am) they had a little rest in opposite ends of the cage and then it all picked up again. They have these mini stand offs and I don't know which one is dominant as they seem equal ) perhaps that's the issue.
He seems to be making submissive noises
And then she does after he is a chattering show off.
I now noticed Penelope started yawning which she hasn't done yesterday and at night hence my increased concern.
She also kinda does this like jumpy launch, but she doesn't actually get near him... not sure if this is to intimidate or actual prerequisite to a proper fight. They're now sleeping as no doubt they're shattered. Please have a look at the short clips i just took and share your thoughts.
Perhaps I'm wrong and the cause is lost, in which case I don't want the go carry on stressing etc x

Now they're sleeping:
Thank you

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

Things look tense! They definitely need a few hideys, cardboard boxes with 3+ doorways cut into it.

Could you put a divider in the cage and have one piggy each side for a while?

 

[Swissgreys]

@Wiebke is your best bet for good advice.

Based on my own (very limited) experience I would be worried that neither of them really seem to be backing off, but it is also hard to tell (mostly because I am not in any way an expert) but also because you intervened when the chattering and pushing around started.

When my Ruby and Eddi started similar behaviors I almost had to let it go right up until the point of no return, so I could fully understand if Eddi was going to back down or Ruby was going to back off. Does that make sense.
I think someone with more experience could probably tell earlier.

Ruby and Eddi behaved in a very similar way, but when left to carry on it just escalated until they both flew at each other.
We separated overnight and retried, which didn't work, so we separated for a few days and tried again.
Every time it started well, and within hours ended up with behavior similar to that in the second clip.

Eddi and Ruby had lived happily together for almost a year, so I have no idea what caused their sudden fall out, but I have accepted it and stopped trying to bond them.

it is a nerve-wracking time and so frustrating when you know they could have a huge cage and companionship, yet they seem hell bent on making things harder.
Complex little things aren't they.

Good luck with it all - I hope they sort out their differences.

 

[oxtinamona]

Things look tense! They definitely need a few hideys, cardboard boxes with 3+ doorways cut into it.

Could you put a divider in the cage and have one piggy each side for a while?

They have lived side be side for over two months with no issues. I thought the general
Advice is to avoid hideys full stop so they don't fight over that ... ? I don't know nothing anymore

 

[oxtinamona]

@Wiebke is your best bet for good advice.

Based on my own (very limited) experience I would be worried that neither of them really seem to be backing off, but it is also hard to tell (mostly because I am not in any way an expert) but also because you intervened when the chattering and pushing around started.

When my Ruby and Eddi started similar behaviors I almost had to let it go right up until the point of no return, so I could fully understand if Eddi was going to back down or Ruby was going to back off. Does that make sense.
I think someone with more experience could probably tell earlier.

Ruby and Eddi behaved in a very similar way, but when left to carry on it just escalated until they both flew at each other.
We separated overnight and retried, which didn't work, so we separated for a few days and tried again.
Every time it started well, and within hours ended up with behavior similar to that in the second clip.

Eddi and Ruby had lived happily together for almost a year, so I have no idea what caused their sudden fall out, but I have accepted it and stopped trying to bond them.

it is a nerve-wracking time and so frustrating when you know they could have a huge cage and companionship, yet they seem hell bent on making things harder.
Complex little things aren't they.

Good luck with it all - I hope they sort out their differences.

They had a proper scrap and she went for him and they were rolling on the floor. Now tying to upload video of it. Excuse poor quality and me taking to myself ( I'm clearly losing it )
I think it's time to call it day ;(

 

[oxtinamona]

Here you go, that's what happened some 20mins ago.
I think I went into cardiac arrest there at 3 mins 5seconds ;(

 

[Wiebke]

Penelope is very much pushing her advantage; Percey is more side-on and won't be coming out on top, but he is definitely not happy about. As long as she is not charging at him, you can give it a go, but it is right up there and you may find that they are both happier as neighbours. You could always try to extend their cages upwards with a hayloft.

 

[oxtinamona]

Penelope is very much pushing her advantage; Percey is more side-on and won't be coming out on top, but he is definitely not happy about. As long as she is not charging at him, you can give it a go, but it is right up there and you may find that they are both happier as neighbours. You could always try to extend their cages upwards with a hayloft.

So what she's done at approx 3mins 2 secs into the video wasn't her charging at him? They did roll on the floor for few seconds but it always happens so quick it's hard to judge

 

[Wiebke]

So what she's done at approx 3mins 2 secs into the video wasn't her charging at him? They did roll on the floor for few seconds but it always happens so quick it's hard to judge

That sounds like a tussle - it was not celar in your last video whether it ended in a chase or a tussle. Personally, I would call it a day; I highly doubt that they will settle back together again. Sadly, medical separations can sometimes mean that adult bondings fail.

Sorry, I am having a very busy time at the moment!

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

Oh you poor thing! Penelope is being a grumpy sod aha, is she in season?

Have you checked them over? No blood etc?

 

[oxtinamona]

Oh you poor thing! Penelope is being a grumpy sod aha, is she in season?

Have you checked them over? No blood etc?

I don't think she's in season... I think she was last week. Presley had a small scratch on his lip. They are now eating peacefully together next to each other but I guess this won't last long.
Such a shame,
They are both most timid,
Cuddly piggies ever

 

[Tiamolly123]

I think the only thing I wouldn't have done is separate them with the dustpan, you are not letting them work through their differences. If they we're chattering there teeth then I would have separated them.
Says me as an hour ago my bonding failed, so I shall try again tomorrow.

 

[oxtinamona]

I think the only thing I wouldn't have done is separate them with the dustpan, you are not letting them work through their differences. If they we're chattering there teeth then I would have separated them.
Says me as an hour ago my bonding failed, so I shall try again tomorrow.

Sorry your bonding failed. It's so hard for us hooomans to understand why this happens.

They were chattering their teeth like crazy loud and she was launching herself at him. Hence the dustpan. She already cut his lip so I didn't want anything worse to happen.This isn't the first time either...

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

I don't think she's in season... I think she was last week. Presley had a small scratch on his lip. They are now eating peacefully together next to each other but I guess this won't last long.
Such a shame,
They are both most timid,
Cuddly piggies ever

It will be a great shame if it doesn't work out, perhaps separate them and try again another day?

I found when bonding if there were no distractions in the area it was way more tense. Once adding lots of distractions they seemed to bond quicker/better and with houses as they weren't in each other's pockets. That was 4 piggies bonding which was extreme lol.

 

[oxtinamona]

It will be a great shame if it doesn't work out, perhaps separate them and try again another day?

I found when bonding if there were no distractions in the area it was way more tense. Once adding lots of distractions they seemed to bond quicker/better and with houses as they weren't in each other's pockets. That was 4 piggies bonding which was extreme lol.

I think it's done now. She was pushing and pushing Presley and laughing herself at him and they were tussling and finally Presley had enough and gave it back and she's got a fairy deep cut and pulled hair. It's more than a scratch,
It's about 3-4 mm deep x we
Cleaned and disinfected it with saline solution. I'll keep and an eye and for now they're back to their separate cages

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

Awh poor wee things, I'm so sorry it didn't work out Hope she heals up soon!

 

[oxtinamona]

Awh poor wee things, I'm so sorry it didn't work out Hope she heals up soon!

I know, poor little feisty souls. I feel bad perhaps I kept them there too long but at some point it seemed that he will actually submit.. then she started making submissive noises and they kept shifting power.
So complicated ! I'd rather be resolving mathematical equations! Well ok, that's not true I wouldn't. I hope it won't get infected. Well it shouldn't as it was cleaned and I'll do it again before bed and they're on fleece so no dust etc x
Heartbreaking that they cannot get together

 

[Swissgreys]

I think you are right.
Once it gets to that point I personally wouldn't take the risk of putting them together again.
As hard as it is for us, we also have to respect their choices.
It's just a good thing you were there and able to intervene before they were both seriously injured.
You really have done everything you can, sorry it didn't work out.

 

[oxtinamona]

I think you are right.
Once it gets to that point I personally wouldn't take the risk of putting them together again.
As hard as it is for us, we also have to respect their choices.
It's just a good thing you were there and able to intervene before they were both seriously injured.
You really have done everything you can, sorry it didn't work out.

we've tried. I guess their relationship wasn't the 'love from first sight' and wasn't stable before the op either.
Complicated little furries aren't they?
Thank you for support as always

 

[Tiamolly123]

Awww I'm sorry it hasn't worked out. It's clear that they won't be able to work there differences out. Will you get a friend for each one, or leave them as they are.

 

[oxtinamona]

Awww I'm sorry it hasn't worked out. It's clear that they won't be able to work there differences out. Will you get a friend for each one, or leave them as they are.

We already have 6 pigs so we can't get friend for each. They seemed more than ok living as neighbours... although I don't like having lone pigs. We have two more couples I could just try bonding Penelope with. Should it work we will have a trio and then Presley can have a baby friend x hopefully. However, I'm to raising my hopes up for bonding with existing couples. All of my ladies are very feisty and strong willed furries for some reason. And one of my couples is mixed so Presley can't be mixed with that pair + the other pair of girls he can't be mixed with as one of the ladies as meant to be originally his friend and she also rejected him spectacularly. One of the reason we aimed for 2 pigs and ended up with 6, by trying to get a friend for everyone but now at our capacity cage wise.