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Help with piggy with cow pat diarrhea - am I doing the right things?

Charlottibiscot

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My 4.5 year old sow, Mabel, has had diarrhea on and off for the last two weeks and is also limping a bit on her back legs (possibly from having poop stuck to them?).

⭐ Scroll down to the bottom for my plan of action and let me know if you think I'm doing the right things or if there's anything else you'd like to add, if you don't want the full deets.

Background:
I first took her to the emergency guinea pig vet two or three weeks ago because she was screaming and limping + with diarrhea (at the time I and the vet assumed the diarrhea was from the stress of the vet visit), who said she was fine and healthy, but gave her some metacam.

I administered the metacam with food which only resulted in further diarrhea so I gave up on that front. Her limp then went away and she seemed to get better on her own.
---
Two weeks later, every time I feed her fresh veg (romaine lettuce, with small amounts of kale, parsley, bell pepper and sometimes carrot or tomato, one cereal bowl of veg between 3 sows) she has diarrhea the next day and is reluctant to move around but still eats and drinks okay. I can hear her tummy gurgling but it is still nice and soft, not bloated.
She gets very thirsty after these episodes so I've been syringing her water as she hates softened pellets.

She's also started a high pitched scream at the other guinea pigs when they get too close to her, especially when they're too close to her rear half - I think they can either tell something is wrong and are trying to clean her bum and her eyes (she gets crusty eyes which I clean every day) or they're antagonising her, can't quite tell but their behaviour definitely isn't hostile at least. Mabel's tummy must feel so upset :(

Apart from the diarrhea and screaming at the others, she seems in bright spirits and is still squeaking for food, walking around (not running like she used to, mind) and thankfully eating nuggets/hay/veg just like normal, but at 750g she has definitely lost some weight over the last 3 months, where she used to be around 900g, but this might be because she's starting to become a senior.

My current plan of action:
- No more veggies for Mabel until she is better for at least 2 days, then slow introduction of veggies
- Make sure she's eating hay and pellets
- Wiping her bum and her feet when they get soiled (I think she's limping because the poop is stuck to the soles of her feet? Would it be burning her feet? Insight would be mega appreciated on this front)
- Ordered probiotic from Amazon plus a proper feeding syringe, arriving on Tuesday (mine is too small for anything except water).
- When that arrives I will feed the piggy probiotic plus poo soup from one of her very chonky, healthy younger cagemates.
- If she is still getting diarrhea after a few days of this and/or screaming I will take her back to the vet.
- I don't want to risk antibiotics for a gut infection unless the above methods haven't worked, if they have the potential of doing more harm than good.
 
First, i would suggest it is generally more likely the diarrhoea is from whatever is wrong with her rather than the metacam. It is possible it’s the metacam but it is generally very well tolerated.
The ‘to be administered with food’ applies to cats/dogs rather than guineas because they need to be eating hay at all times anyway.

Its also worth considering that the discomfort when moving as a side effect of discomfort from digestive issues, rather than it necessarily being anything to do with poop on her feet - it’s something to get checked out.

As she is losing weight you do need to step in and syringe feed her a recovery feed or mushed pellets. Her hay intake must have dropped for her weight to have dropped.
You need to weigh her every morning and make sure she is stabilised with syringe feeds.

Definitely remove veg. She cannot have any while she is having any digestive issues.
Probiotic is also a good idea. I would also suggest you start using poop soup also - direct microbiome transfer - from the healthy poops if your other sows. Your poorly sow sounds to have very compromised gut bacteria and the poop soup will help. The recipe is in the guide below.

Definitely take her back to the vet asap. Severe diarrhoea is not normal and is always of concern.


 
First, i would suggest it is generally more likely the diarrhoea is from whatever is wrong with her rather than the metacam. It is possible it’s the metacam but it is generally very well tolerated.
The ‘to be administered with food’ applies to cats/dogs rather than guineas because they need to be eating hay at all times anyway.

Its also worth considering that the discomfort when moving as a side effect of discomfort from digestive issues, rather than it necessarily being anything to do with poop on her feet - it’s something to get checked out.

As she is losing weight you do need to step in and syringe feed her a recovery feed or mushed pellets. Her hay intake must have dropped for her weight to have dropped.
You need to weigh her every morning and make sure she is stabilised with syringe feeds.

Definitely remove veg. She cannot have any while she is having any digestive issues.
Probiotic is also a good idea. I would also suggest you start using poop soup also - direct microbiome transfer - from the healthy poops if your other sows. Your poorly sow sounds to have very compromised gut bacteria and the poop soup will help. The recipe is in the guide below.

Definitely take her back to the vet asap. Severe diarrhoea is not normal and is always of concern.


Thank you, this is very helpful.

Yes, I thought the diarrhea would not be directly related to metacam but opted to stop just in case - I'll give her some more this evening and see if the diarrhea comes back - if it doesn't, I'll give her some once a day.

When I took poop of her foot this morning she immediately started putting weight back on her foot and stopped limping as much, but definitely an idea that she's just generally in discomfort so that could be the more likely cause, or contributing at least.

Cool, sounds like it'll be poop soup, mushed pellets and probiotic for the next few days then! I just have to wait for the stuff to arrive on Tuesday as I don't think anywhere near me sells probiotic or the appropriate size syringe... Any idea what I can do whilst I wait?

Thanks again.
 
You can get 1ml syringes from a pharmacy but just don’t tell them it’s for animal use!

Or you can get her to eat the mushed pellets from a bowl or spoon.

Probiotic - Fibreplex would be your best bet here but pro-c is also ok. The poop soup will most likely need to be syringed to her though as they are generally not likely to just drink it.
 
You can get 1ml syringes from a pharmacy but just don’t tell them it’s for animal use!

Or you can get her to eat the mushed pellets from a bowl or spoon.

Probiotic - Fibreplex would be your best bet here but pro-c is also ok. The poop soup will most likely need to be syringed to her though as they are generally not likely to just drink it.
thank you :) I have a 1ml syringe, I was just having trouble getting anything into it but I suppose if i make a runnier mixture i might have some luck! ❤️
 
thank you :) I have a 1ml syringe, I was just having trouble getting anything into it but I suppose if i make a runnier mixture i might have some luck! ❤️

When using mushed pellets you have to cut the tapered end off of the syringe. Pellets are much more coarse than proper recovery feed so doesn’t go through as easily
 
Hi all, hoping for a little bit more advice. I have taken Mabel to the vets twice now and her poop is a little better, but her gut is making gurgly noises every now and again and her poops are nice and frequent but always teardrop shaped and tiny or really long and thin.

She's eating well, and she's on a meadow hay/Timothy mix and Burgess excel as always and veg I've reduced to just a slice of spring greens a day because that's all she can tolerate it seems...

I've been advised by the vet to switch from fibreplex to the probiotic bio lapis, which she takes like it's mixed with an addictive substance, lol. I noticed an improvement as soon as she started having it - she has started doing her little stretch-and-yawns in the mornings when I first stroke her, which I hadn't seen her do ever since this started - but it's been a week now and she's still not "fixed".

as I said though, her poops are still not really improving. I'm not really sure what to do. Advice would be appreciated. She really misses her vegetables and part of me wants to try her back out on them in case it makes her poop go back to normal but i guess that would probably have the opposite effect and take us back to square one.

I unfortunately categorically cannot afford an x-ray - as much as I hate to have to say that - but have sent off for parasite testing and have spoken to the vet about infection testing, but she said it's unlikely since her cage mates are nice and healthy.
What else could be going on? Could it be an internal tumour or something?

I just really want my baby to get better, honestly. She's only 4 and she's the biggest sweetheart :/

When the vet feels her belly, there's often a lumpy bit in the middle, which she said was likely poop? What could be causing that? :(

oh, and she's not screaming at the other pigs any more! which is a huge relief.

p.s I was thinking to wait another week or two and then take her back to the vet again if no improvement - she is currently stable in her weight and condition, it's just that she's not back to normal and very probably in discomfort
 
At 4.5 it isnt completely unreasonable to assume she may be experiencing the start of arthritic changes. It may well be that while she's still eating well, its reduced just enough not to be massively noticeable visually, but enough to cause gut upset. Pain is a very good appetite suppressant. A good vet should be able to feel these changes in the joints without an xray if costs are an issue, it often causes joint swelling and stiffening, the range of motion in the limbs will be different and piggy will show discomfort while having the limbs manipulated.

It may also explain why she became sensitive to the other pigs approaching her, if their knees hurt (one of the first areas to become sore) then being mounted or jostled in normal dominance behaviours become painful and something they get defensive over.

It may well be worth trying the metacam again, but ensure that it is at a decent dose, it is still chronically under dosed due to the difference in cats/dogs and guinea pig metabolisms, especially since the weaker cat version became licensed for guinea pigs.

Alongside the probiotics, syringe feeding and recheck with the vet, try offering a source of warmth, a snugglesafe heat pad or similar to see if she uses it, warmth really helps ease arthritic pain so if she enjoys using it, that might offer some insight into whats going on as well.
 
At 4.5 it isnt completely unreasonable to assume she may be experiencing the start of arthritic changes. It may well be that while she's still eating well, its reduced just enough not to be massively noticeable visually, but enough to cause gut upset. Pain is a very good appetite suppressant. A good vet should be able to feel these changes in the joints without an xray if costs are an issue, it often causes joint swelling and stiffening, the range of motion in the limbs will be different and piggy will show discomfort while having the limbs manipulated.

It may also explain why she became sensitive to the other pigs approaching her, if their knees hurt (one of the first areas to become sore) then being mounted or jostled in normal dominance behaviours become painful and something they get defensive over.

It may well be worth trying the metacam again, but ensure that it is at a decent dose, it is still chronically under dosed due to the difference in cats/dogs and guinea pig metabolisms, especially since the weaker cat version became licensed for guinea pigs.

Alongside the probiotics, syringe feeding and recheck with the vet, try offering a source of warmth, a snugglesafe heat pad or similar to see if she uses it, warmth really helps ease arthritic pain so if she enjoys using it, that might offer some insight into whats going on as well.
Ooh, thank you, I hadn't thought of arthritic pain as a possibility, that's definitely an avenue to explore! When I first took mabel to the vet because she was limping, the lady manipulated the affected leg a lot and said it sounded really healthy, but I guess how her joints sound would totally depend on the progression of things like arthritis. Mabel is also just too polite to show pain which makes life more difficult.

I've owned so many sows over my lifetime but I've just never had any chronic issues come up so I feel like I'm in the deep end 😅

Now you mention it, I'm pretty sure she was prescribed the cat metacam 🤔

Any ideas about dosage? I was told 0.1ml/day, she's 830g... is there a page on this forum about dosage?

She can smell when I've fed my other two girls their veg and runs around sniffing the floor, so her appetite is definitely still there, but yes she could definitely not be eating enough hay, I see her in the hay trays regularly and munching nuggets even more regularly (I give them 3 small handfuls a day as I have 3 piggies) but admittedly her younger cagemates clearly eat more hay than her.

I shall invest in a heat pad and keep up with syringe feeding as well as contact the vet after Christmas day if there's been no further improvement. I can't bear the thought of her being in pain :(

Thank you for your help, it's so appreciated!
 
You're welcome! They're such stoic little things, it's so frustrating when you're trying to work out what's wrong 😅

0.1ml is definitely a very low dose, especially of the cat version. That would really not be doing anything. Only vets can offer dosing, so there's nothing on the forum really that you'd be able to work out the dose by, especially as there's a decent sized range that vets use their own judgement on depending on the symptoms in front of them when giving a hands on exam, sometimes the minimum-maximum difference in dose can be quite large. But just for comparison, I have piggies that are a similar weight who are on 0.6ml of the dog metacam which is 3xs stronger than the cat version. Now that is quite a high dose for the weight, so it might not be in your piggies best interest to ask for that high of an amount, but I'd definitely ask them to consider a higher dose or swapping to the dog version.
 
You're welcome! They're such stoic little things, it's so frustrating when you're trying to work out what's wrong 😅

0.1ml is definitely a very low dose, especially of the cat version. That would really not be doing anything. Only vets can offer dosing, so there's nothing on the forum really that you'd be able to work out the dose by, especially as there's a decent sized range that vets use their own judgement on depending on the symptoms in front of them when giving a hands on exam, sometimes the minimum-maximum difference in dose can be quite large. But just for comparison, I have piggies that are a similar weight who are on 0.6ml of the dog metacam which is 3xs stronger than the cat version. Now that is quite a high dose for the weight, so it might not be in your piggies best interest to ask for that high of an amount, but I'd definitely ask them to consider a higher dose or swapping to the dog version.
Thanks! I'll have a chat with my vet about it 🙏 Yes I thought it was a low dose, I remember I used to give that much to my old hamster when he got sick! And he weighed about 80g!
 
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