Help With Four Males (three Young And One Older)

[Jo K]

Hello,

I have posted in here before and got given great advice but I am still struggling with these guinea pigs! Sorry to repeat myself if you remember my previous post (months ago now and can't find it) but I'll give you a quick back story.

We got Mr Biggles who is a rescue guinea pig, we have no idea how old he is. When we got him, for the first couple of weeks he was fine but then started to get depressed. We thought it was because he wanted a friend, spoke to the pet shop we got him from and another pet shop and they both agreed so we decided to get him a friend. Because we don't know how old he is we decided to get two younger ones, so if he is quite old and dies soon we won't again be left with one (a young one as well) on his own. We were told (again, by two different pet shops) that this was a good idea but as they like to be kept in pairs get three. So we did.

For a few months everything was fine, bit of strutting and teeth chattering but overall OK. Then one day it turned bad. Really bad. Two of the younger ones (Sammy and Dusty) attacked Mr Biggles, and looked like they had bitten him badly. I separated them straight away (we had a small cage we were originally advised to get with Mr Biggles and they were all in a large Liberta cage at this point) and took him to the vet. Turned out he wasn't bitten as badly as he looked, he is a long haired guinea pig and had a parasite. We were probably given him with the parasite (even though he was supposed to have been checked over by the vet). We were advised by the vet not to put him back with the other guinea pigs. Now we have two large cages taking up our living room, one with Mr Biggles and one with the other three.

Mr Biggles has been much happier since being on his own, but Dusty and Sammy turned on each other, and sometimes on Archie. Archie as a general has not shown dominance behavior, he seems happy to just get on with it (like Mr Biggles). The 'scraps' between the younger guinea pigs have been getting worse, so today we got the run out and put Archie and Mr Biggles in it together. Dusty and Sammy have been much better today, only teeth chattering at points where Mr Biggles and Archie were doing the bum wiggle strutting thing, and they seem quite settled. Archie and Mr Biggles have for the most part been fine, Archie occasionally trying to give him a 'piggy back' (I have a 3yr old, so that's what we call it) which I have never seen him do before but overall OK. Now however he won't leave Mr Biggles alone, so I think we're going to have to put the three back together again and Mr Biggles on his own again.

I really don't know what to do, I suffer from anxiety and my guinea pigs being like this is not helping. I can hardly pick up the three younger ones anymore, they are always on edge and don't ever come out easily. Because of this they are not being handled every day and also not getting the floor time they deserve, I can't get anywhere near them to put them back (I am starting physio next month so chasing them should get easier). Two of them occasionally bite now as well when we try to handle them. I sit and talk to them, all of them are happy to take food from my hand but the second (and I mean second) they get it they scarper.

We have talked about re-homing either one or two of them, but then it still leaves one on his own and if I re-home all three I don't want someone else to have the same issues and I've just 'passed' them on. Please help, I am not able to enjoy them as I should and they are not getting what they need at the moment. I can't have a third cage in my house, we have other pets as well.

Thank you in advance,a stressed out guinea pig owner

P.S Here is a picture of Mr Biggles (a recent one) and an old one of all of them in the run (when they were happy together), the liberta cage is the same size but up off the floor. You can see Dusty and Sammy, Archie is hiding. Now I can't get a photo of the younger ones as they run away.

 

[Wiebke]

Hello,

I have posted in here before and got given great advice but I am still struggling with these guinea pigs! Sorry to repeat myself if you remember my previous post (months ago now and can't find it) but I'll give you a quick back story.

We got Mr Biggles who is a rescue guinea pig, we have no idea how old he is. When we got him, for the first couple of weeks he was fine but then started to get depressed. We thought it was because he wanted a friend, spoke to the pet shop we got him from and another pet shop and they both agreed so we decided to get him a friend. Because we don't know how old he is we decided to get two younger ones, so if he is quite old and dies soon we won't again be left with one (a young one as well) on his own. We were told (again, by two different pet shops) that this was a good idea but as they like to be kept in pairs get three. So we did.

For a few months everything was fine, bit of strutting and teeth chattering but overall OK. Then one day it turned bad. Really bad. Two of the younger ones (Sammy and Dusty) attacked Mr Biggles, and looked like they had bitten him badly. I separated them straight away (we had a small cage we were originally advised to get with Mr Biggles and they were all in a large Liberta cage at this point) and took him to the vet. Turned out he wasn't bitten as badly as he looked, he is a long haired guinea pig and had a parasite. We were probably given him with the parasite (even though he was supposed to have been checked over by the vet). We were advised by the vet not to put him back with the other guinea pigs. Now we have two large cages taking up our living room, one with Mr Biggles and one with the other three.

Mr Biggles has been much happier since being on his own, but Dusty and Sammy turned on each other, and sometimes on Archie. Archie as a general has not shown dominance behavior, he seems happy to just get on with it (like Mr Biggles). The 'scraps' between the younger guinea pigs have been getting worse, so today we got the run out and put Archie and Mr Biggles in it together. Dusty and Sammy have been much better today, only teeth chattering at points where Mr Biggles and Archie were doing the bum wiggle strutting thing, and they seem quite settled. Archie and Mr Biggles have for the most part been fine, Archie occasionally trying to give him a 'piggy back' (I have a 3yr old, so that's what we call it) which I have never seen him do before but overall OK. Now however he won't leave Mr Biggles alone, so I think we're going to have to put the three back together again and Mr Biggles on his own again.

I really don't know what to do, I suffer from anxiety and my guinea pigs being like this is not helping. I can hardly pick up the three younger ones anymore, they are always on edge and don't ever come out easily. Because of this they are not being handled every day and also not getting the floor time they deserve, I can't get anywhere near them to put them back (I am starting physio next month so chasing them should get easier). Two of them occasionally bite now as well when we try to handle them. I sit and talk to them, all of them are happy to take food from my hand but the second (and I mean second) they get it they scarper.

We have talked about re-homing either one or two of them, but then it still leaves one on his own and if I re-home all three I don't want someone else to have the same issues and I've just 'passed' them on. Please help, I am not able to enjoy them as I should and they are not getting what they need at the moment. I can't have a third cage in my house, we have other pets as well.

Thank you in advance,a stressed out guinea pig owner

P.S Here is a picture of Mr Biggles (a recent one) and an old one of all of them in the run (when they were happy together), the liberta cage is the same size but up off the floor. You can see Dusty and Sammy, Archie is hiding. Now I can't get a photo of the younger ones as they run away.

View attachment 45064 View attachment 45065

Please leave Archie and Mr Biggles together and let them work it out. Mounting is par for any boar bonding; your boys are now teenagers, so the hormones during any bonding are in overdrive. Don't separate unless Mr Biggles is looking really stressed, unhappy or is losing weight because he can't eat or sleep in peace. Archie has been the underboy - he has suddenly found himself as top pig in the new pairing, and that has evidently given him a boost of testosterone. It is likely going to calm down again.I experience this whenever a young neutered boar is meeting a sow for the first time.

Please read our bonding guides; they have got lots of tips and information:
Introducing And Re-introducing Guinea Pigs
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Illustrated Bonding Behaviours And Dynamics

 

[Wiebke]

PS: Did your vet say what he is treating Mr Biggles for exactly and what product did he prescribe? Has he considered that it could be a fungal issue? How long has Mr Biggles been separated for?

 

[Jo K]

PS: Did your vet say what he is treating Mr Biggles for exactly and what product did he prescribe? Has he considered that it could be a fungal issue? How long has Mr Biggles been separated for?

It was a one off treatment, can't remember what it was called. It was a treatment that we put on the top of their head, the vet showed me with Mr Biggles and gave me one for each of the younger guinea pigs. They have been separated since Christmas (the big biting fight happened on Boxing Day and we got a new cage as soon as we could).

 

[Jo K]

Please leave Archie and Mr Biggles together and let them work it out. Mounting is par for any boar bonding; your boys are now teenagers, so the hormones during any bonding are in overdrive. Don't separate unless Mr Biggles is looking really stressed, unhappy or is losing weight because he can't eat or sleep in peace. Archie has been the underboy - he has suddenly found himself as top pig in the new pairing, and that has evidently given him a boost of testosterone. It is likely going to calm down again.I experience this whenever a young neutered boar is meeting a sow for the first time.

Please read our bonding guides; they have got lots of tips and information:
Introducing And Re-introducing Guinea Pigs
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Illustrated Bonding Behaviours And Dynamics

I have read the bonding behaviors, amazing advice on here which is why I came here to ask. Dusty and Sammy are definitely much happier, Archie hasn't left Mr Biggles alone for nearly 2hrs now. They have two food bowels in each cage, one has two waters and two hay points, the other only has one water and one hay point (as it only had one guinea pig). I'm not sure the smaller cage is big enough for both long term (it's the largest one Pet's at Home do)

 

[Wiebke]

It was a one off treatment, can't remember what it was called. It was a treatment that we put on the top of their head, the vet showed me with Mr Biggles and gave me one for each of the younger guinea pigs. They have been separated since Christmas (the big biting fight happened on Boxing Day and we got a new cage as soon as we could).

Please be aware that every time you separate boars, they have to start back in square one, but you may get away if you can split the cage for the night so Mr Biggles and Archie can still interact with each other. As the other two are definitely happier together, I would consider keeping Mr Biggles and Archie as bonded neighbours if the humping is too much. Perhaps they can go together when Archie is past the worst of his big hormones.

Have you considered looking into C&C cages, as they allow a flexible layout. I use a cheap Ikea 70x150cm linnmon table for a 2x4 C&C cage (equals a 2x5 ft traditional cage); it stands in the foot print of a ground floor pen and allows good access and light for the lower cage. A single boar should have a minimum of a 2x3 C&C pen.

 

[Jo K]

Please be aware that every time you separate boars, they have to start back in square one. Carefully read our links before you try again.

Thank you. We were planning on keeping the three younger ones together and Mr Biggles on his own but the three weren't calming down and getting worse. Reintroduced them as I can't fit a third cage into the room. We introduced them in a run with clean fleece so it was a neutral territory and gave them plenty of food to eat. I find it amazing how settled Sammy and Dusty are now, they are the two that appear to create the problems between the three.

 

[Jo K]

They seem to have settled, or Archie is too tired to keep going anyway! I can't stay up any later (I go to bed early and have a very early hospital appointment tomorrow) so hope they are OK. Thank you very much for your help, I will keep an ear out and someone will be here tomorrow so we can keep an eye.

 

[Wiebke]

Have you considered a C&C cage arrangement?
I use a 70x150cm Ikea linnmon table, which can support a 2x4 C&C cage while fitting inside another one on the groun floor. A 2x4 C&C cage is the equivalent of a 2x5 ft traditional cage (see the arrangement on the right).

 

[Jo K]

Have you considered a C&C cage arrangement?
I use a 70x150cm Ikea linnmon table, which can support a 2x4 C&C cage while fitting inside another one on the groun floor. A 2x4 C&C cage is the equivalent of a 2x5 ft traditional cage (see the arrangement on the right).
View attachment 45069

We only found out about them after I found this forum. I wish we had got one of them. Can't afford one at the moment, the Liberta was £159 and Mr Biggles cage was £100 (ignoring the cost of the original cage, run and hutch). It is something we have talked about but just can't do it at this point and time. The other issue is our cages are on wheels and we do need to be able to move them. That is an amazing set up! I will definitely have a re think on it and see what I can save and work out.

 

[Jo K]

Can I ask how many guinea pigs you have? I can't stop looking at your picture, really is amazing!

 

[Wiebke]

Can I ask how many guinea pigs you have? I can't stop looking at your picture, really is amazing!

This picture is a few years old; I currently have 24 piggies living in a dedicated half of our lounge; this is a recent picture.


You could try and ask whether members have got leftover grids they don't need; for two 2x4 pens, you need 24 grids (12 each) and connectors only for the bottom pen. A lot of my grids are actually secondhand; some have come from people who have given up piggies or moved to other housing arrangements.
The laminate is a cheap carpet shop offcut, but you may be able to get correx offcuts from local sign shops, especially if you don't mind a bit of patching up with duct tape.
You may be able to find 75x150 ikea table tops and separate legs cheaper on gumtree, ebay or similar places. With some research, you can actually source quite a few things more cheaply and offset that against selling your other cage on ebay.
It is certainly worth looking into things and talking it through.

 

[Jo K]

Thank you so much for your help. The hutch we got was second hand, was good condition but it stank unbelievably which put me off second hand but grid wouldn't be like that. I'll have a look at our lounge (we have finches, a love bird, gerbils, and a hamster. All rescue animals apart from the three guinea pigs). They were quieter last night than normal so hopefully they've settled. Thank you again for all your help.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much for your help. The hutch we got was second hand, was good condition but it stank unbelievably which put me off second hand but grid wouldn't be like that. I'll have a look at our lounge (we have finches, a love bird, gerbils, and a hamster. All rescue animals apart from the three guinea pigs). They were quieter last night than normal so hopefully they've settled. Thank you again for all your help.

I have been given 17 black used grids by a local friend, which I don't need, so you would only need to find another 7. They are not in the very best of state where pigies have gnawed or peed on them a lot, but still perfectly usable.
Otherwise I would have donated them to a rescue to use or sell.

I hope that your boys are OK today?

 

[Jo K]

I have been given 17 black used grids by a local friend, which I don't need, so you would only need to find another 7. They are not in the very best of state where pigies have gnawed or peed on them a lot, but still perfectly usable.
Otherwise I would have donated them to a rescue to use or sell.

I hope that your boys are OK today?

Thank you very much! The boys have settled down nicely, thank you for telling me to leave them together. There is still the occasional strutting going on, sometimes one chases the other out of the favoured hidey hole (there are two in there but they both prefer the same one, the one with the cage). I think we're going to move them up into the office, means we won't see them as much but then we can set the cage up.