Help With Bonding 2 Sows Please

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CPHill

CPHill

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Following losing a piggy 2 weeks ago, I have now got another piggy today (iggy) to out with my 4 year old sow (Rex) who has been very depressed since losing her companion.

They have been on the kitchen floor for quite a while now and really aren't getting on. Rex is being very aggressive to the iggy. I've split up two brawls. No blood but lots of rumble strutting from Rex who clearly thinks iggy is not welcome. I have introduced on neutral territory as possible.

Rex has seeming to be grooming iggy a bit around the back. Is this good? Or is it more like gentle nipping? He is showing his teeth as well like yawning. I'm on standby with a blanket to throw over if they fight again. Iggy is quite calm and not retaliating.

Not sure what to do tonight! Might have who sleep next to them! Any advice welcome. Thanks
 
I would separate overnight and then pick up again tomorrow on neutral ground and see how that goes and whether it will be calmer. With cross gender bondings you can split it over several days and do it slowly. Rex is obviously establishing his dominance.
 
Thanks. They are actually two sows but years ago sons wanted boy ones so they had boy names!

If I separate tonight should I leave Rex in the normal cage and make iggy a new one?
 
Wiebke said:
I would separate overnight and then pick up again tomorrow on neutral ground and see how that goes and whether it will be calmer. With cross gender bondings you can split it over several days and do it slowly. Rex is obviously establishing his dominance.
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Does separating still apply if they're two sows? Thanks
This is quite stressful!
 
Yes; you can also separate sows overnight, just not boar-boar bondings.

Bonding can be nerve wracking and it never gets any easier; you just get better at reading the body language and what is going on! :(
 
Ok, thank you. Thought it was settling down but Rex just showed teeth again, before going back to eating. Poor iggy. :-(
 
I don't think it matters which cage either is in for the night, as you will have to do it up fresh and ideally rearrange it somewhat before you feel safe to put them together in their permanent cage. make sure that they do not have any hideys with just one exit, two food boals space at least a body length apart etc whenever they are together.
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/faq-introducing-and-re-introducing-guinea-pigs.38562/
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/dominance-behaviours-in-guinea-pigs.28949/

Yawning is actually often a sign of a fear-agressive piggy that is afraid of the other piggy coming to close when it is not sure that it will come out on top of the hierarchy; with some patience you can work past it. Just give the two time to get used to each other and take it slowly. Rex has snapped out of her depression, so you have achieved your aim; give her time to make a new friend. ;)
 
It may actually help if Iggy had Rex' scent on her.
 
How would I get her scent on her?

We're now on day 2. They live in a c and c cage and Iggy has almost been accepted in the upstairs kitchen area where the food is but she hadn't yet mastered the ramp to the large downstairs bit. I have put her down there but when I do Rex starts on her again so I have to put her back upstairs!

Is this just a gradual thing and keep putting Iggy downstairs and hope that Rex will eventually decide she's allowed downstairs and also that Iggy will master the ramp eventually?

At least she's spending lost them where the food is so not going hungry!
 
I went through the same thing with my two boars! No brawling, but it got pretty close with timid 3-week-old Eggs and 1-year-old Bacon trying to establish his territory. What I did was, I separated them into two cages, and I got them together daily. Soon they warmed up to each other, and they can't be without each other now. Make sure you keep doing it in neutral territory, with no food or anything to get protective over. Hope this helped! :)
 
Ok, we're a week in and this isn't getting any easier.

They live in a 2 storey c and c cage with the upstairs being a smaller kitchen area and the downstairs for sleeping / exploring.

Iggy is now 'allowed' in the upstairs bit, she gets the occasional nip if Rex wants her out the hay tray but largely ok.

Iggy isn't allowed downstairs at all though. When she does ( I have to place her there as she won't go down) Rex starts teeth chattering, stomping about, nose to nose stuff and chases her.

I give them times on neutral territory to bond but Rex still has a to at her.

Iggy is now spending her days hiding in the hay tray upstairs just coming out to eat (or a cuddle), which isn't much of a life.

Will this get better?! I'm feeling guilty as Iggy was having a nice life no doubt from where I got her and had come to this where she must constantly be in fear of Rex.

At what point do you say they aren't going to bond? I did this to help Rex but she has been a big bully so would she too rather be back on her own?! Just want them to be happy! Any thoughts please? Thanks
 
I must admit that it doesn't sound promising if two your two girls are not sharing space yet. Rex seems to prefer to have her own territory; that is not quite unusual with very dominant older sows. However, they still appreciate the stimulation of piggies next door! :mal:

Is there a possibility space-wise that you could rearrange your C&C into a two and one piggy next door appartment. 2x3 grids ground space would suffice (that is a hint more than a traditional 60x120cm cage) if the two piggy appartment could also have a loft and Iggy could have a more congenial companion. A piggy dated neutered boar from a rescue may be a good idea as cross gender pairings are the most stable of them all.
 
Ok, that's all really helpful, thank you. If we divided it would iggy definitely need another friend do you think or would it be sufficient knowing Rex was piggy company but at a safe distance!?
 
CPHill said:
Ok, that's all really helpful, thank you. If we divided it would iggy definitely need another friend do you think or would it be sufficient knowing Rex was piggy company but at a safe distance!?
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If you can afford it, Iggy would be much happier with a companion. There are rescues in the Bristol area with a boar neutering policy or Little Pips Rehoming in Sidmouth for companion sows.
 
Thank you. Tonight Rex looked like he was about to attached iggy and then suddenly Rex starting nibbling iggy's ear which may be a sign of affection?!
 
If you had room for another piggy, I would suggest adding a neutered boar. I had a similar problem 2 years ago when I had problems bonding a new sow with my existing sows. In the end I got a nuetered boar from my local rescue after taking the new girl boar dating. They got on really well & bonded immediately. I then let them all in a big run for excercise & they were OK with each other. The boy, Mitch would go and shuffle in between any of the girls that seemed about to argue. They lived as a group for several months until I rescued another boy who was bonded with 2 or the 4 girls from the other group.
 
Actually scrap that looking hopeful bit, Rex has just had another go at Iggy when I tried Iggy downstairs :-(
 
CPHill said:
Thank you. Tonight Rex looked like he was about to attached iggy and then suddenly Rex starting nibbling iggy's ear which may be a sign of affection?!
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Ear or power grooming is a friendly dominance gesture that translates as "I want you to be a member of the herd I am leading". if any sign, that is the one you'd love to see from Rex! It means that she has accepted Iggy and - whatever else you are seeing - is wanting her to be in her life. ;)
 
Wiebke said:
Ear or power grooming is a friendly dominance gesture that translates as "I want you to be a member of the herd I am leading". if any sign, that is the one you'd love to see from Rex! It means that she has accepted Iggy and - whatever else you are seeing - is wanting her to be in her life. ;)
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That's great news! Despite Rex back to teeth chattering again I guess she is maybe thinking about it. Think I'll hold off a bit longer before separating the cage and hope Rex decides Iggy is ok! Fingers crossed!
 
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