Help 😩

[Michelle T]

Advice please ? I bought 3 boars in December Last year (approx. 12 weeks old), they got on fine apart from the odd spat. Very sadly one of them passed away suddenly in August and the one who was closest to him seemed very subdued ever since. My daughter was also distraught as it was her 1st pet. We bought a new 9 week old boar on Sunday, and are following the bonding guidelines very carefully. He is in a separate hutch but next to the other 2. However for 3 days now the original boys are fighting like I’ve never seen before it’s very concerning and looks dangerous - I have to keep intervening to split them up, I’m now really worried about what to do. Any advice would be gratefully received. They have both meet the baby briefly on our Laps, he’s very content and happy and the original 2 seem happy and excited to see him too ....

 

[Piggies&buns]

First, I’m sorry for your loss.

Adding a third boar to a bonded pair will almost always upset and with the potential to destroy the bond between the original two. Unfortunately keeping three boars together (even if they are siblings and/or were always together as babies - as soon as the teens hit they usually fail and most boar trios will not make it to adulthood together) almost always results in trouble, fights and broken bonds. Boars can only really be kept in pairs to be successful. Most people cannot provide enough space for a trio - they need a square metre each and there are no commercial hutches which cover three square metres so they arent ever big enough for a trio. A boar pair need a 6ft x 2ft hutch/cage

When bonding you cannot do little meetings here and there, it has to be all in one go, success or failure in a neutral territory bonding pen and then permanently living together from then on and not separated again (if successful) or permanently apart (if failure). Having a piggy living alongside is not bonding at all, and little meetings here and there is also not bonding as they start the process but then it gets stopped. It causes stress and means that every single time they have to start over again. Babies (under four months of age) need immediate bonding and they shouldn’t be alone in a separate cage. As a bond comes down to character compatibility and mutual liking, buying a piggy on spec means you have no idea whether ther is going to be character compatibility or mutual liking so there is always the risk of failure, even more so when bonding a third boar in. However, due to the fact three boars almost never works out, trying your pair with the new piggy has caused problems in their relationship. They may or may not be able to get it past it and remain together but if they are really full on fighting, then it’s not likely to be good news for their relationship.

The baby is far too young to be by living by himself but you won’t be able to bond him in with your current pair without really causing problems either now or down the line even if your current pair werent already having problems.

You need to follow the bonds in trouble guide to work out whether your pair can have a functioning relationship and whether this has brought up issues between them. They may need to be separated for a couple of days to calm down and then tried together again on neutral territory to see their reaction - if they accept each other back, then they can likely stay together but please don’t add any more piggies to a boar pair; if they immediately fight (not dominance behaviours, but fighting), then it’s over for them . If they really are full on fighting now, then it’s immediate and permament separation without trying a trial separation and reintroduction.

if your pair can work things out then they can stay together and you will need a new friend for the baby.
if your pair can’t work it out and are full on fighting, they will not be able to remain together. You can then try bonding one of them with the baby. But you cannot do it big by bit. You have to put them together in a neutral area and see it through. You will then need a new friend for the single piggy.

I’ll add in some guides Below

Bonds In Trouble
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

 

[Michelle T]

Goodness sounds like we’ve been completely miss informed. I’ve read through the guides and sounds like we have a disaster on our hands - feeling pretty awful about this now... thank you for your time to reply.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Goodness sounds like we’ve been completely miss informed. I’ve read through the guides and sounds like we have a disaster on our hands - feeling pretty awful about this now... thank you for your time to reply.

you aren’t the first and won’t the last I'm sure. We spend a lot of time picking up the pieces of attempted boar trios when people are given incorrect information from pet shops.

if you would like further help on working out whether your pair are functioning then please do give us further information on the behaviours you are seeing, their cage size etc.

Whichever one of your piggies ends up single then they will need a new friend and the best way to do this is via dating at a rescue centre. They can help find a character compatible friend which will result in a good bond.

 

[Wiebke]

Goodness sounds like we’ve been completely miss informed. I’ve read through the guides and sounds like we have a disaster on our hands - feeling pretty awful about this now... thank you for your time to reply.

Hi!

You can either consider whether you want to split your squabbling pair for good and pair the depressed boy with the baby (which may work better in the longer term) or keep your pair together and hope for the best, but then you still need to find a solution for the baby.

However, a trio won't work. Teenage boar trios have about 90% fall-out rate and you seem to have sadly ended up with the two boys that get on the least. Lots of places say that it is OK to add a baby boar to a bonded pair; unfortunately we have found on here that that is not quite the case. Even adult boars can feel stressed and fall out over meeting a new pig.

Please take the time to read the information and take your time to think on it; don't make any knee jerk reactions. We are here to answer all your questions.

 

[Michelle T]

To say I’ve been upset this afternoon is an understatement! I genuinely believed the breeder on the info I was given and am heartbroken that this has happened - I only ever had the best interests of the animals at heart. So deep breath and try the advice re. Bonding them tomorrow in a neutral area and then have a plan for if it doesn’t work out.
My set up by the way is 2x 5meter x 3 meter outdoor hutches linked together with a tube and all day access to an attached Run area in front of the hutches in our house (playroom), all year round, although they go out in the garden in summer months for a few hours a day.
They each have their own food bowls, hay feeder and water (opposite ends). The baby is closed away at the moment in his own area but next to the other 2 (they can see, sniff each other). Really Appreciate Your time to help and hoping to get this figured out ASAP so as not to cause anymore upset between them.

 

[Piggies&buns]

When you say you’re going to try bonding them tomorrow, who are you going to try to bond?

 

[Michelle T]

The 3 of them ? Or Definitely not what I should do ?

 

[Piggies&buns]

The 3 of them ? Or Definitely not what I should do ?

Id definitely not even attempt it. at worst it could break your original pair and then you’ve got three single piggies. It already sounds as if having the third near them is causing problems for them. You need to figure out what is going on with your original pair. If the original two can’t get on, then separate them and then bond one of them with the baby. You are going to end up with a pair and a single out of this, not a functioning trio.
Even If by some chance you could get the baby to bond in for now (this is very unlikely to happen at all) as soon as the baby hits his teens (16 weeks of age), then all hell is going to break loose again and you’ll still end up separating them but you’ll be risking all three fighting, injuries, broken bonds etc. It’s just not worth the risk.

 

[Michelle T]

Right Ok sorry, I wasn’t sure what to try first out of panic thank you so much, appreciate your time and patience.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Right Ok sorry, I wasn’t sure what to try first out of panic thank you so much, appreciate your time and patience.

It’s ok. We can guide you, try not to panic.

if you could tell us what is going on between your original pair, exactly what is happening, then we can try to help.

it’s better if you could find the piggy who ends up single a new, character compatible friend (via dating at a rescue centre) to live with (so you’ve got two separate pairs) but if you can’t, then the single needs to live alongside the pair so they can all interact through the bars to prevent loneliness in the single .

 

[VickiA]

Please take a deep breath. You aren’t the first person to be given misleading information by a seller. Please trust us. We have no vested interest here, other than in the interests of your piggies. Please do not try to bond the 3 together.

 

[Michelle T]

Thank you - so my original 2 now about 13 months old - were fighting a little before the baby came along - loud teeth chattering, Chasing, raising their chins at each other, hair standing on end, rumble strutting, one of them is very dominant and the other whilst more often than not is submissive (puts up with humping daily ) did usually do all of the above as well - but never physical fighting. Then the baby came along ......So they can both see the baby- the dominant one is showing signs of stress by running up and down a lot - not really getting any rest and licking the baby through the cage door - which the baby seems to like and licks back. The submissive one has taken himself off well away from both, is not even approaching the baby cage seems to be just hiding - I know it’s bad as both of the originals are not even eating today - I’ve spent all day watching them and if the submissive one attempts to eat or move around the play area the dominant one goes for him. I took them both onto a large mat earlier in another room with some hay and parsley to see if they would behave better together but Sadly it seemed to give the dominant one free reign to launch himself at the other and a full on fight ensued where by they were quickly separated I’ve just checked on them now and all is quiet - they must be exhausted as they’ve not really had any rest. EDIT : my cage sizes as described earlier should be in feet not meters ! (That would make for a huge cage ). The baby one is completely calm through all this happily eating, popcorning, sleeping ......

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m afraid it really doesn’t sound positive for your original pair. It sounds as if their relationship was already tense and likely to fail but now the presence of the third has tipped them over the edge.
The fact the submissive isn’t allowed to eat is bullying which warrants separation. A full on fight occurring definitely warrants immediate and permanent separation.
I think you’re going to have to split up your pair and bond one of them with the baby.

so you have two 5ft x 3ft hutches? (Not 5ft x 2ft?). If that’s correct, the one of them is big enough for a pair. A 5ft x 2ft hutch isn’t big enough for a boar pair (they need 6ft x 2ft, but a 5ft x 3ft would be fine for a pair)

 

[Michelle T]

Yes I agree - given all the advice it seems like the safest thing right now. The submissive gets an extraordinary amount of cuddles from my daughter (11 year old) as he always looks Sad the dominant one is a popcorning lunatic - very charcterfull and full of life so perhaps a better suiting with the baby - we’ll see.

yes 2 x outdoor (2 tier) 5x3 ft hutches - normally joined together by a tube (we cut a hole in the bottom tier to feed the tube through), the doors in these are open all day which leads into a play area going the full length of-both hutches And out about another foot. (I work from home so always there to watch them). We even covered the ramps in ribbed door mat material to make it easier more comfortable on their feet.
We can easily block off each hutch To make 2 singles again though - we’ve always had this as an option in case one of them got poorly.

 

[Siikibam]

I would try bonding the dominant piggy with the baby. As said above he’s too young to be living alone. Even though they can communicate through the separator it’s better he lives with another piggy.

I hope you can work out the best pairing and get your other boy a friend.

 

[Michelle T]

I would try bonding the dominant piggy with the baby. As said above he’s too young to be living alone. Even though they can communicate through the separator it’s better he lives with another piggy.

I hope you can work out the best pairing and get your other boy a friend.

Thank you - I’ll try my hardest to sort this mess out !

 

[Michelle T]

Thank

Please take a deep breath. You aren’t the first person to be given misleading information by a seller. Please trust us. We have no vested interest here, other than in the interests of your piggies. Please do not try to bond the 3 together.

thank you for your kindness

 

[Siikibam]

Thank you - I’ll try my hardest to sort this mess out !

Please know you did what you thought was right for your boys. Unfortunately you were given the wrong information! So deep breath as said above

 

[Fantasimo]

Aww, I’m so sorry you’ve gotten caught up in such a guinea pig based soap opera! But you’ve got some excellent advice above, and once everything is sorted out (which may seem like a distant hope at the moment) you will have time to sit back and enjoy your much happier pigs

 

[Roselina]

I agree with Fantasimo it seems a very difficult situation but you will come thru it. We are all here to help and support you