Help! Think my pig has been bitten by her sister!

[Debx]

Hello, whilst weighing my guinea pigs today, I noticed that Lily the smallest of the trio has got what looks like a nasty bite between her shoulder blades. I sprayed this with Leucillin and she's at Vets tonight with Lily her sister ( skin issued but seems to have resolved) . I have no idea what has caused this wound, the cage has nothing in it to cause this wound so I can only assume she's been bitten by one if her sisters? I've only had them a very short time, 2.5 weeks and they are just 4mths old. They are really shy and timid around me so I have a piggy cam. I noticed some rumble strutting behaviour going on between 2 sisters (not injured one) a few nights ago and after posting on here for help (again) it was perhaps maybe one was coming into season. I am now wondering if it was during this period that Lily has been hurt? She seems to be happy enough in herself and seems to get along with the other 2 okay but again I can't see them all the time. I'm worried she might be getting bullied? When I put her back in her cage earlier she wheeked a short time later and Dolly, her biggest sister was near her and looks like her scab came off. I'm hoping to adopt a neutered male in the near future. I wanted advice on what could be causing this? I was told they were bonded when I got them. I'm so new to guinea pig keeping, apologies for asking so many questions. Everyone has been incredibly helpful and I am thankful for your advice. Rest assured she is going to vets later. I just wanted to understand what could have happened to cause this?

 

[Piggies&buns]

An actual wound is concerning but we obviously can’t know how it was sustained. Sows can be a bit underhand about bullying whereas boars are much more upfront so it is easier to spot.
I would watch very closely to see if there are any fights going on. Sows generally nip without breaking the skin for dominance rather than actually bite but you are more likely to see a bite in the back end rather than between the shoulders (doesn’t mean to say they haven’t had a fight though)

Make sure you carry out the routine weekly weight checks as not being allowed to eat enough hay is a sign of bullying.

What are the measurements of the cage?
Do you have multiple hides and do all hides have two exits?

To add, adding a neutered boar will not resolve any bond issues between the sows.

 

[Debx]

Hi, thank you, they are in a 5ft x 2ft Liberta R6 cage, open topped and they have wicker tunnels, cardboard tunnel and 3 hideys. All of them are putting weight on, eating. Dolly putting on the most but she's generally bigger than Honey and Lily. I've not noticed anything accept a few loud wheeks as they are timid when I'm near there enclosure. I will try to monitor them more closely.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome

I am very sorry.

- Please firstly double check the gender of all piggies to make sure that they are actually all girls. Where have you got them from? Mis-sexing is sadly a lot more common that you would like.
Complaining to the Manager about Supervisor @ Work
New Guinea Pig Problems: Sexing & Pregnancy; URI, Ringworm & Parasites; Vet Checks & Customer Rights
Arrival in a home from the perspective of pet shop guinea pigs

- How large is the cage space and have you made sure that they all have got their own hide/log tunnel with two exits, so no piggy can get cornered/locked in?
Deep bites are usually instinctive defence bites where a piggy very much on edge is reacting to any movement without the brain interfering. Unsuitable housing and too small cages/hutches are a very common flashpoint for any conflicts to escalate when the under-piggy cannot remove themselves from the scene and is forced to make a stand. 4 months is the start of teenage and the age when in boars the testicles descend, triggering the first major testosterone flares. Hence why I am asking you to make sure of the gender. The sexing guide has got plenty of reference pictures but we will provide a second opinion from crips and clearly labelled pictures (including pictures of the inside of the slits, not just the outside) if needed.
" Biting" And What You Can Do (Biting, Tweaking, Nibbling and Nipping)
Cage Size Guide (these are the minimum cage sizes)

Please take the time to read the links.

 

[Debx]

An actual wound is concerning but we obviously can’t know how it was sustained. Sows can be a bit underhand about bullying whereas boars are much more upfront so it is easier to spot.
I would watch very closely to see if there are any fights going on. Sows generally nip without breaking the skin for dominance rather than actually bite but you are more likely to see a bite in the back end rather than between the shoulders (doesn’t mean to say they haven’t had a fight though)

Make sure you carry out the routine weekly weight checks as not being allowed to eat enough hay is a sign of bullying.

What are the measurements of the cage?
Do you have multiple hides and do all hides have two exits?

To add, adding a neutered boar will not resolve any bond issues between the sows.

2 Of the hideys are not double exits, shall I remove them?

 

[Debx]

Hi and welcome

I am very sorry.

- Please firstly double check the gender of all piggies to make sure that they are actually all girls. Where have you got them from? Mis-sexing is sadly a lot more common that you would like.
Complaining to the Manager about Supervisor @ Work
New Guinea Pig Problems: Sexing & Pregnancy; URI, Ringworm & Parasites; Vet Checks & Customer Rights
Arrival in a home from the perspective of pet shop guinea pigs

- How large is the cage space and have you made sure that they all have got their own hide/log tunnel with two exits, so no piggy can get cornered/locked in?
Deep bites are usually instinctive defence bites where a piggy very much on edge is reacting to any movement without the brain interfering. Unsuitable housing and too small cages/hutches are a very common flashpoint for any conflicts to escalate when the under-piggy cannot remove themselves from the scene and is forced to make a stand. 4 months is the start of teenage and the age when in boars the testicles descend, triggering the first major testosterone flares. Hence why I am asking you to make sure of the gender. The sexing guide has got plenty of reference pictures but we will provide a second opinion from crips and clearly labelled pictures (including pictures of the inside of the slits, not just the outside) if needed.
" Biting" And What You Can Do (Biting, Tweaking, Nibbling and Nipping)
Cage Size Guide (these are the minimum cage sizes)

Please take the time to read the links.

Hi thank you, I got them from a local breeder, she was nice and seems very experienced. I was shown they were girls. They have little y shaped bits. I will double check... will the vet know? They are in a pretty big cage Liberta R6 5 x 2 but my 2 of the hides aren't double exit, I will change those today.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi thank you, I got them from a local breeder, she was nice and seems very experienced. I was shown they were girls. They have little y shaped bits. I will double check... will the vet know? They are in a pretty big cage Liberta R6 5 x 2 but my 2 of the hides aren't double exit, I will change those today.

Hi

Please make sure of the gender and if needed post pictures on here (via the Attach Files button underneath your post when you write it). We have likely more sexing experience on here than your vet since we've been doing this for over 15 years.

Unfortunately, breeder piggies can have a very nervous disposition since welfare rules only cover shows but not how piggies are kept and bred.

 

[Debx]

Hi

Please make sure of the gender and if needed post pictures on here (via the Attach Files button underneath your post when you write it). We have likely more sexing experience on here than your vet since we've been doing this for over 15 years.

Unfortunately, breeder piggies can have a very nervous disposition since welfare rules only cover shows but not how piggies are kept and bred.

Thank you again, I will get some pictures later and post. I've also removed the hideys with 1 exit and put back a DIY cardboard hidey with 2 exits so all hideys are 2 exits now.

 

[Debx]

Pictures re sexing, they should all be females hopefully x

 

[Wiebke]

Pictures re sexing, they should all be females hopefully x

Hi

Honey and Dolly are definitely girls. I would like to have a peak inside Lily's slit to be 100%. Sorry for being a pain but we don't play guessing games on here when it comes to sexing.

This is how the inside of a sow slit should look (reference picture from our guide):


It is very rare for sows to bite each other, so it is important for us to go through all the movements.

Please be aware that getting siblings is not necessarily a guarantee for a happy bond. In fact, my own sow siblings have been pairings that I had to split more often than bonded sow pairs - and even in those that have stood the distance (like my own trio of rescue born sisters), the teenage months and any hormonal ovarian cysts have meant that interactions were right at the limit more than once.
Siblings can in fact mean sibling rivalry right from the start (there are only two teats) and no guarantee for a personality match. Like with humans you get the ones that are very close but piggies can squabble every bit as bad as human siblings all their lives and fall out with each other just as well.

 

[Debx]

Of course no problem I will try to get another picture. Thank you

 

[Debx]

Hi

Honey and Dolly are definitely girls. I would like to have a peak inside Lily's slit to be 100%. Sorry for being a pain but we don't play guessing games on here when it comes to sexing.

This is how the inside of a sow slit should look (reference picture from our guide):
View attachment 239134

It is very rare for sows to bite each other, so it is important for us to go through all the movements.

Please be aware that getting siblings is not necessarily a guarantee for a happy bond. In fact, my own sow siblings have been pairings that I had to split more often than bonded sow pairs - and even in those that have stood the distance (like my own trio of rescue born sisters), the teenage months and any hormonal ovarian cysts have meant that interactions were right at the limit more than once.
Siblings can in fact mean sibling rivalry right from the start (there are only two teats) and no guarantee for a personality match. Like with humans you get the ones that are very close but piggies can squabble every bit as bad as human siblings all their lives and fall out with each other just as well.

Thanks again for your advice, I just hope it can resolve. I will definitely keep a closer eye and see what happens. I just assumed that they would all live in harmony being sisters, the lady I got them from said they were sisters and got on well plus were used to people ect but I'm finding the complete opposite at the moment, scared of everything and now bickering x

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks again for your advice, I just hope it can resolve. I will definitely keep a closer eye and see what happens. I just assumed that they would all live in harmony being sisters, the lady I got them from said they were sisters and got on well plus were used to people ect but I'm finding the complete opposite at the moment, scared of everything and now bickering x

People selling you piggies will tell you a lot, unfortunately. My guess is that something must have spooked them while they were bickering.

 

[weepweeps]

Good luck Lily at the vets. I hope they all settle down again soon.

 

[Debx]

Good luck Lily at the vets. I hope they all settle down again soon.

Thank you x

 

[Debx]

People selling you piggies will tell you a lot, unfortunately. My guess is that something must have spooked them while they were bickering.

Yes I'm beginning to wonder, perhaps Ive made sure their hideys are all 2 exits as well this forum has been so informative and helpful x

 

[weepweeps]

One other thing, it could be a skin infection and not a bite at all. I have got piggies from breeders in the past and they have always developed a fungal infection or mites.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Hi, thank you, they are in a 5ft x 2ft Liberta R6 cage, open topped and they have wicker tunnels, cardboard tunnel and 3 hideys. All of them are putting weight on, eating. Dolly putting on the most but she's generally bigger than Honey and Lily. I've not noticed anything accept a few loud wheeks as they are timid when I'm near there enclosure. I will try to monitor them more closely.

In addition to the other advice you’ve received, your cage is not really big enough for three. 5ft is just big enough for two but three piggies need 6ft x 2ft. A tight space won’t help their issues.

 

[Wiebke]

I have been wondering that as well but I wanted to make sure that the genders were correct first.

Self-harming shallow bite wound scabs can happen at the very start of either ringworm (highly contagious fungal skin infection) or mange mites (skin parasite which lays their eggs into the increasingly painfully inflamed skin). The coming days should clarify that - the area around the scab will become larger dur to hair loss.
New Guinea Pig Problems: Sexing & Pregnancy; URI, Ringworm & Parasites; Vet Checks & Customer Rights

 

[Debx]

In addition to the other advice you’ve received, your cage is not really big enough for three. 5ft is just big enough for two but three piggies need 6ft x 2ft. A tight space won’t help their

In addition to the other advice you’ve received, your cage is not really big enough for three. 5ft is just big enough for two but three piggies need 6ft x 2ft. A tight space won’t help

 

[Debx]

Thank you. I'll be at Vets later.

In addition to the other advice you’ve received, your cage is not really big enough for three. 5ft is just big enough for two but three piggies need 6ft x 2ft. A tight space won’t help their issues.

Oh no! Gosh the person I bought it from had 17 in it poor things! I will of course look to upsizing. They do have a 7ft x 3ft run but far too timid at the moment to go in this. They are very small at the moment. I'm so frustrated because quite a few sites state, including c&c, Cavee ect 5ft x 2ft is okay for 3 females.Thank you for pointing this out x

 

[piggieminder]

including c&c, Cavee ect 5ft x 2ft

I've not looked at any sites recently but I think they quote 5x2 grids which is bigger than 5ft x 2ft and would be the minimum size for 3. I've never heard of the cages you have so I don't know if it can be expanded easily like C&C type grids can be. It gets complicated and confusing because we don't really talk in terms of feet we ted to talk in cm and grids, each grid is 35cm.


Cage Size Guide

 

[Debx]

I've not looked at any sites recently but I think they quote 5x2 grids which is bigger than 5ft x 2ft and would be the minimum size for 3. I've never heard of the cages you have so I don't know if it can be expanded easily like C&C type grids can be. It gets complicated and confusing because we don't really talk in terms of feet we ted to talk in cm and grids, each grid is 35cm.


Cage Size Guide

Aw maybe that's why it's confusing, thanks for clarifying it. I thought they meant feet and inches, they can and do run around freely ( trying to catch them to pick them up !). It's 12 square feet of floor space. I will be upgrading to a c&c cage, I didn't realise they were around and that the majority use those types of indoor cages when I bought this one. I like the versatility of them. Again, learning all the time. x

 

[Piggies&buns]

Aw maybe that's why it's confusing, thanks for clarifying it. I thought they meant feet and inches, they can and do run around freely ( trying to catch them to pick them up !). It's 12 square feet of floor space. I will be upgrading to a c&c cage, I didn't realise they were around and that the majority use those types of indoor cages when I bought this one. I like the versatility of them. Again, learning all the time. x

Ah, Yes grids for c&c cages and actual cm measurements for commercial cages and hutches are different. For c&c cages the sizes are discussed in number of grids not measurements
A 5x2 c&c cage is not the same measurements as 5ft x 2ft cage.
A 5x2 c&c measures 180x70cm, covering 12 square feet and is big enough for three piggies.
A 5ft x 2ft cage measures 150x60cm, covers 10 square feet of space and is big enough for two piggies.

 

[Debx]

Back from Vet , he confirmed it was a bite and not mange or mites . Happy with Honey as well, not fungal and looks like its clearing up. He was very good with them. Thanks for all your helpful advice today.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you. I'll be at Vets later.

Oh no! Gosh the person I bought it from had 17 in it poor things! I will of course look to upsizing. They do have a 7ft x 3ft run but far too timid at the moment to go in this. They are very small at the moment. I'm so frustrated because quite a few sites state, including c&c, Cavee ect 5ft x 2ft is okay for 3 females.Thank you for pointing this out x

2x5 grids is the minimum size. Youngsters usually profit from larger cages; older piggies who mainly sleep and eat are fine.

But no wonder are your baby girls showing stress related social behaviours.