Help poorly pigs - Deteriorating digestive problem with blood in the poos

[Poppy33]

Hello, I'm new here and searching for answers.

I have two piggys cookie and hazzle both of them are four years old. A few months ago I took cookie to the vets with a suspected UTI. She had bulges on her sides, like bloat but my exotic vet said that it wasn't. She was in pain when urinating. We put her on baytil and she stopped making pained noises when urinating. Her stools had also been a lot smaller than usual. After the course of baytil her stools were on and off okay but she still had the bulge in her tummy either side. My vet thought it was possible she had ovarian cysts but as she was not in pain anymore, eating and drinking normally. My vet decided it was best to see how things went before sedating her for further enquiries.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago and hazle started showing simular symptoms. Her stools were not properly formed. Short and tipped like cookies, sometimes in halves, she definitely had bloat. She had eaten some paper when exploring the bedroom so this was thought to be the cause. The vet gave her an injection of pain relief and gut moving medication.

Both of them have been having issues with their stool and bloating since. It seems to coincidental for them to have the same symptoms for different reasons. Both of them have also lost weight through out all of this. Yet they both have really good appetites, more ravenous than usual. However they are drinking less. We started them on panacure last week. They have lost some of the swelling and seem less bloated. They're stools however have got worse on the panacure and this morning I have found spots of blood in the cage. I don't know if this is because the panacure is doing something perhaps it's working and that's why they look less bloated or if things are getting worse hence the blood. I know panicure doesn't treat protozoan parasites and I am considering coccidia?

Me and my vet are both at a loss of what could be causing this now. She said that it could possibly be fungal but I've never heard of that.
Has anyone gone through this with their piggys or any ideas on what could be making my girls so poorly? Thank you for your help!

 

[weepweeps]

I’m sorry you and your vet are struggling to get to the bottom of these issues. I have no experience of these issues but hope someone comes along soon to help you.

 

[Poppy33]

I’m sorry you and your vet are struggling to get to the bottom of these issues. I have no experience of these issues but hope someone comes along soon to help you.

Thank you

 

[Free Ranger]

I will tag in some of the experts but if I may first say that with no disrespect meant to your vet you might end up having to look for a second opinion with another vet...? @Wiebke @Siikibam @VickiA ? Does this sound more than bloat to you? I am wondering whether there could be an underlying issue with the lady-bits here...

Am I right in thinking panacur is for worms? One thing I can say is that worms are very rare for piggies in the UK... other countries might be different but not for the UK. Was there any evidence for worms or was it just a shot in the dark!

How is your girl's weight? Have they lost anything significant? How much do they weigh at the moment.

Have you had any investigation at all into the bulging in the sides? Any sort of scan or x-ray? Both of these can be done without GA in the right circumstances.

As they are the same age are your girls related? Things like cysts on the ovaries can have a genetic component There are different sorts of cysts and they can cause different symptoms. Are you seeing any hair loss on the flanks... I don't mean a bit of normal shedding but maybe bald patches or obvious thinning where the skin is showing through. If you look at your girls from the top does their shape look different? I mean it's guinea-pigs so they are all a bit pear shaped but some types of cyst can make them go really thin at the front and huge at the back.

Bloat I don't know about - although I do know it can be a secondary thing if other organs are pressing onto the gut. One of my pigs chews paper sometimes because they get bored and they can't stop their gob from chewing (!) but others who have suddenly started to chew, rip or eat the paper have turned out to be in some discomfort - from a UTI or impaction which I had not spotted at that time. Are your girls on painkillers? I hear mild bloat can cause discomfort - bad bloat is apparently very painful - but there could also be something underlying that is bothering them.

Some UTIs are very stubborn and hard to get rid of. We've had high doses of baytril for less than a week, lower doses for 10 days, second types of antibiotic for 3 weeks and then that was repeated after a fortnight when it returned and my vet just wasn't surprised! But blood at the back is not necessarily from the urinary tract... sometimes there can be a uterine infection.

I hope someone else can respond to you shortly as I have to go offline for a while. good luck little girls x

 

[Wiebke]

Hello, I'm new here and searching for answers.

I have two piggys cookie and hazzle both of them are four years old. A few months ago I took cookie to the vets with a suspected UTI. She had bulges on her sides, like bloat but my exotic vet said that it wasn't. She was in pain when urinating. We put her on baytil and she stopped making pained noises when urinating. Her stools had also been a lot smaller than usual. After the course of baytil her stools were on and off okay but she still had the bulge in her tummy either side. My vet thought it was possible she had ovarian cysts but as she was not in pain anymore, eating and drinking normally. My vet decided it was best to see how things went before sedating her for further enquiries.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago and hazle started showing simular symptoms. Her stools were not properly formed. Short and tipped like cookies, sometimes in halves, she definitely had bloat. She had eaten some paper when exploring the bedroom so this was thought to be the cause. The vet gave her an injection of pain relief and gut moving medication.

Both of them have been having issues with their stool and bloating since. It seems to coincidental for them to have the same symptoms for different reasons. Both of them have also lost weight through out all of this. Yet they both have really good appetites, more ravenous than usual. However they are drinking less. We started them on panacure last week. They have lost some of the swelling and seem less bloated. They're stools however have got worse on the panacure and this morning I have found spots of blood in the cage. I don't know if this is because the panacure is doing something perhaps it's working and that's why they look less bloated or if things are getting worse hence the blood. I know panicure doesn't treat protozoan parasites and I am considering coccidia?

Me and my vet are both at a loss of what could be causing this now. She said that it could possibly be fungal but I've never heard of that.
Has anyone gone through this with their piggys or any ideas on what could be making my girls so poorly? Thank you for your help!

@PigglePuggle

Hi

If there is blood in the stool, you need to contact your vet asap. The best would be a lab test so you know what you are up against. Giardia would be another one to test for. However, it can be that there are no parasites and it is another problem - but again, that is for a lab test to show up.

Have you taken your piggies off any fresh veg to allow the beleaguered microbiome to settle down again. and are giving plenty of probiotics? Eating lots can also be a sign that the nutrition is not well taken up. if yours are eating more fresh veg, then they will get more fluid from there.
Are you weighing daily at the same time to monitor the food intake? Please be aware that around 80% of the daily food intake should be unlimited; you cannot control that by eye.
Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links
Weight - Monitoring and Management
Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating
Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

PS: Eating paper and other very rough fibre is often an indication of an unbalanced gut; piggies like to use the rough fibre to rebalance any dysbiosis (overgrowth the of the wrong bacteria in the gut).

@PigglePuggle

I am linking our member most experienced with parasitic problems into this guide in the hopes that she will see the alert next time she comes on. She is currently rather busy.

 

[PigglePuggle]

Hi, sorry your piggies are unwell.
Panacur contains fenbendazole which is mostly a treatment for gastrointestinal nematodes which generally do not affect UK piggies. However fenbendazole may also partially help with a protozoal parasitic infection like Giardia, though metronidazole is a more effective and common treatment for intestinal nasties in the bacterial and protozoa categories. Pancur should never cause bleeding in piggies.
I think really the vet should be checking poop samples to get a firm diagnosis before trying to treat- it is very easy to upset the gut microbiome further with unnecessary treatments which dont have much effect. Spotting protozoan parasites in poop may require repeated fresh poop samples to be taken to find the culprit. Occasionally piggies also get tapeworms which require a medicine containing praziquantel- panacur wont work at all for that- but again that is rare and needs proper diagnosis from a poop sample.
I do wonder perhaps if your vet may not be as guinea pig savvy or parasite savvy as you need in a specialised case, though gut parasites in guinea pigs are rare and it is more likely you have simply a microbial imbalance. As @Wiebke also mentions, simply taking them off veg for a few days and feeding only hay/dry food with a good probiotic like fibreplex may be all that is needed.
Are you weighing the piggies regularly? Weight loss, how much and how fast, is also often a good indication of how serious gut problems are. If you are not getting any answers from your current vet do please request a referral to a specialist- often they may have extra diagnostics available but also that crucial extra experience in unusual cases!
Hope you can get some answers and your piggies get well x

 

[Poppy33]

Hello,

Thank you all for replying to me! I stopped all veggies a few weeks ago. I have been feeding them hay only. I've had them on a FOS supplement since this started. I've been giving them both fibreplex and critical care intermittently. I actually work with animals so I've just been doing the best of what I know will help keep their gut moving.

I've been disinfecting the cage everyday and the pavement where their run is.

It's a never ending nightmare. I don't understand how both of them have bloat and loose stools but a really healthy appetite. They have both lost weight, I'm not sure how much as the vet didn't specify, I will make sure to check at our next appointment on Friday.

If it is a bacteria imbalance is there anything else I can do to rectify it? Other than FOS is there something else I can do to help? Thanks so much for all your help! I'm at a loss with it now.

 

[Siikibam]

I’m not sure what else you could do. But you should weigh them daily at the same time rather than waiting for it to be done at the vets. Under normal circumstances, you should weigh them weekly at the same time. Do consider seeing another experienced vet if you feel you’re not getting any answers. All the best.

 

[Poppy33]

I’m not sure what else you could do. But you should weigh them daily at the same time rather than waiting for it to be done at the vets. Under normal circumstances, you should weigh them weekly at the same time. Do consider seeing another experienced vet if you feel you’re not getting any answers. All the best.

Thank you so much. I will start weighing them every day. They no longer have the bloat or swollen sides since starting them on panacur but their stools still aren't right. I'm going to wait for the result from pals but if that's all clear then I have no where to go with it. Thanks all for all your help.