HELP NEEDED - IMPORTANT CONSCIOUS DENTAL ANNOUNCEMENT - PLEASE READ!

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furryfriends (TEAS)

furryfriends (TEAS)

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WE NEED YOUR HELP!

Some of you may already be aware of a Position Statement that was published in March 2023 by the British Veterinary Zoological Society, regarding the use of anaesthesia in rabbit, guinea pig and chinchilla dental procedures. I will add the link to this document, at the bottom of this announcement.
Unfortunately, it is looking increasingly likely that the use of conscious dentals will be prohibited, which means unthinkable consequences for our ‘extra special dental piggies’ here at TEAS, as well as to the very many more guinea pigs, who benefit from this life-saving dental work.
We would like to put together as much evidence, to show the success of this procedure and this is where you can help! We are, therefore, collecting testimonials from owners, who have, or have had, guinea pigs with dental disease that have been treated by Simon and Kim! If you can help by submitting a testimonial, please do so!
This method of treating dental issues works so well and the results speak for themselves! In the 12 years that TEAS has been running, we have been able to save the lives of so many and it would be a complete travesty if this had to stop!
This does mean that for the foreseeable future, TEAS will be unable to offer places to any further guinea pigs with dental issues, which is heart-breaking, but for now we need to concentrate on fighting this!

This is the link to the position statement https://www.bvzs.co.uk/wp-content/u...XbUga7VupY1Ci_Ns3h9Zw9g7XTvKawxQ9wtzy8Pb4eWdw

Please sent testimonials to:
[email protected]
 
It’s so sad that this is happening 😞 Although they couldn’t save his life due to old age catching up with him and other age related illnesses, Simon and Kim made Edwards last weeks comfortable last Summer. Without them and the treatment he received, I’m in no doubt he would have suffered x
 
Hope you get lots of support for both TEAS and Simon.

Having helped bring Shelly to TEAS I can't imagine how sad it would be if her treatment couldn't continue. She was so tiny and frail but thanks to you and Simon is now living her best life.
 
It's really, really sad that this is happening and I honestly can't comprehend why they would basically write a death sentence for so many piggies that need frequent dentals. Just a question: Does it need to be testimonials that had their dentals done specifically at Cat & Rabbit or would testimonials from other vets be helpful too? I might know someone who has a huge following on Instagram in the UK and would be willing to share the call for testimonials.
 
stef.trg said:
It's really, really sad that this is happening and I honestly can't comprehend why they would basically write a death sentence for so many piggies that need frequent dentals. Just a question: Does it need to be testimonials that had their dentals done specifically at Cat & Rabbit or would testimonials from other vets be helpful too? I might know someone who has a huge following on Instagram in the UK and would be willing to share the call for testimonials.
Click to expand...
I’ll tag Debbie @furryfriends (TEAS)
 
YvonneBlue said:
Hope you get lots of support for both TEAS and Simon.

Having helped bring Shelly to TEAS I can't imagine how sad it would be if her treatment couldn't continue. She was so tiny and frail but thanks to you and Simon is now living her best life.
Click to expand...
I had the pleasure of meeting Shelly when she first came to TEAS and she was very tiny. I saw her again last weekend and the difference in her is incredible! She has a little tummy now and she feels much more solid! She knows her own mind and let me know when our cuddle was finished! Debbie has been documenting her weight on Facebook but to see it for myself- she's amazing! All because she is able to have frequent, carefully done conscious dentals. Without those she would no longer be with us, enjoying life and being the little character that she is. One of many who, with Debbie and Simon's help, have flourished under often difficult circumstances initially but have gone on to live happy lives. Simon's work should be given the recognition it deserves- he is an incredible and very skilled vet
 
Oh this is so terrible! How stressful, it could mean such an uncertain future for so many small animals!
I’m so sorry that I cannot help by writing a testimony as I’m the other side of the world.
But I’m more than happy to sign a petition if one gets started?
Thinking of you, good luck
 
rhymer said:
Just found an article written by the guinea pig vet on her blog about conscious dental treatment. About a visit made to Simon with a patient in 2019 and how she would like to offer the same to her patients. Don't know if anyone else has seen this or if it helps.
Click to expand...
Yes, Ellie Whitehead, the guinea pig vet, does them too. She accompanied a client who was seeing Kim and watched Kim carry out a conscious dental. She then started offering them herself.
 
Quick update! We’ve received many testimonials, but if you’d still like to submit one, it’s not too late! Please aim to get any further ones in, over the next two weeks!

We would really welcome input from any rescues who have benefitted from the amazing work that Simon and Kim do!
 
I was debating whether to put this on my 'Wet Chin' thread, but it's probably better here, you can add it to the testimonial I've already done, or keep it separate.

I think this shows why conscious dental examination and treatment is as effective and as protective of the guinea pig's welfare, when carried out by a trained and skilled professional.

"Squeaks started drooling approximately 1 week after having his incisors burred (conscious) by my usual vet. I got another appointment, and explained to the vet (one we hadn't seen before) that Squeaks has dental issues, so maybe his lower incisors were too long and hurting his gums. She said she would look and burr the incisors if necessary and also check his molars. On return the vet didn't mention his molars or any other possible causes for the drooling. However the drooling was no better as a result of the burring and after several days more I was becoming worried about him as he was hardly moving from the sleeping area and I wasn't sure he was eating much hay.
So as soon as I could, on Monday morning, I got a same day appointment at the Cat & Rabbit Clinic. Kim looked at and felt Squeaks thoroughly, saw that he was very weak and dehydrated with laboured breathing, assessed that he was not fit for a conscious dental treatment, and said he would have to be given oxygen before any oral examination could take place; without this, the stress could be too much for him in his weak state. When she returned him to me later, she told me that she had had to do the examination in 2 parts, with more oxygenation in between, because cyanosis was seen, showing he was starting to get stressed. She had not seen any obvious cause for the drooling such as ulcers from overgrown cheek teeth or classic oral thrush, only some changes in colour (?) that might be the beginning of thrush. It was decided to add an extra dose of one of his pain killers, and some oral Itrafungol in case it was indeed thrush.

On putting him in my hospital cage, he was indeed very weak and tired, but later he was moving a little and interested in food so I gave him during the evening Critical Care, grass, veg strips and his medicines and extra water (in addition to the hay in the cage). I half expected him not to survive the night, but in the morning he was more alert and after his morning medicines he sat on my lap eating grass for 1.5 hours solid (!). The next morning (Wednesday), the fur on his front seemed much drier and in general he was much more like his usual (senior) self. I decided to take him back to see Kim on the Thursday to see if she thought he was recovering.

This time her assessment was that he was in a much more normal state, stronger, breathing normally, responding to stimuli normally, better hydrated etc. Therefore a careful examination would be possible without pre-oxygenation. When he was returned to me, she told me that this time he had shown no signs of cyanosis at all, and she had been able to examine his mouth well and even gently file his cheek teeth a little. She had gently touched the marks she had seen at the previous exam with the blunt end of the file, and immediately lots of saliva was produced, showing that there was indeed thrush present, which the itrafungol and extra pain relief were working to clear. I put some fresh grass in the carry-case and he immediately started eating.

The contrast between Kim's assessments and decisions on those two visits shows that it is possible to consciously treat a guinea pig without causing it excessive stress, and to know when stress will be excessive. There is always going to be some stress to an animal in a vet trip, even some humans find visits to the dentist very stressful, but I'm sure that he would not have survived a general anaesthetic if he had been given one on the Monday in order to be examined by any other vet. If Squeaks had not had the examination at the Cat and Rabbit Clinic on the Monday, I think I would now be making an appointment for euthanasia, if he hadn't already died first. I count myself very lucky to be close enough to that practice to be able to go there. I wish other vets were able to do the same things so others could benefit from such life-saving treatment. Perhaps training in Guinea Pig dentistry including conscious treament, should be a CPD option for vets with an interest in small mammals, allowing them to do it safely and to the highest welfare standards."

Sorry, this turned into an awfully long spiel! Maybe useful, maybe not!
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
I was debating whether to put this on my 'Wet Chin' thread, but it's probably better here, you can add it to the testimonial I've already done, or keep it separate.

I think this shows why conscious dental examination and treatment is as effective and as protective of the guinea pig's welfare, when carried out by a trained and skilled professional.
Please can you email this to TEAS? It’s an excellent example of just how important and effective, this method of treatment is.

So glad Squeaks is doing so much better x
"Squeaks started drooling approximately 1 week after having his incisors burred (conscious) by my usual vet. I got another appointment, and explained to the vet (one we hadn't seen before) that Squeaks has dental issues, so maybe his lower incisors were too long and hurting his gums. She said she would look and burr the incisors if necessary and also check his molars. On return the vet didn't mention his molars or any other possible causes for the drooling. However the drooling was no better as a result of the burring and after several days more I was becoming worried about him as he was hardly moving from the sleeping area and I wasn't sure he was eating much hay.
So as soon as I could, on Monday morning, I got a same day appointment at the Cat & Rabbit Clinic. Kim looked at and felt Squeaks thoroughly, saw that he was very weak and dehydrated with laboured breathing, assessed that he was not fit for a conscious dental treatment, and said he would have to be given oxygen before any oral examination could take place; without this, the stress could be too much for him in his weak state. When she returned him to me later, she told me that she had had to do the examination in 2 parts, with more oxygenation in between, because cyanosis was seen, showing he was starting to get stressed. She had not seen any obvious cause for the drooling such as ulcers from overgrown cheek teeth or classic oral thrush, only some changes in colour (?) that might be the beginning of thrush. It was decided to add an extra dose of one of his pain killers, and some oral Itrafungol in case it was indeed thrush.

On putting him in my hospital cage, he was indeed very weak and tired, but later he was moving a little and interested in food so I gave him during the evening Critical Care, grass, veg strips and his medicines and extra water (in addition to the hay in the cage). I half expected him not to survive the night, but in the morning he was more alert and after his morning medicines he sat on my lap eating grass for 1.5 hours solid (!). The next morning (Wednesday), the fur on his front seemed much drier and in general he was much more like his usual (senior) self. I decided to take him back to see Kim on the Thursday to see if she thought he was recovering.

This time her assessment was that he was in a much more normal state, stronger, breathing normally, responding to stimuli normally, better hydrated etc. Therefore a careful examination would be possible without pre-oxygenation. When he was returned to me, she told me that this time he had shown no signs of cyanosis at all, and she had been able to examine his mouth well and even gently file his cheek teeth a little. She had gently touched the marks she had seen at the previous exam with the blunt end of the file, and immediately lots of saliva was produced, showing that there was indeed thrush present, which the itrafungol and extra pain relief were working to clear. I put some fresh grass in the carry-case and he immediately started eating.

The contrast between Kim's assessments and decisions on those two visits shows that it is possible to consciously treat a guinea pig without causing it excessive stress, and to know when stress will be excessive. There is always going to be some stress to an animal in a vet trip, even some humans find visits to the dentist very stressful, but I'm sure that he would not have survived a general anaesthetic if he had been given one on the Monday in order to be examined by any other vet. If Squeaks had not had the examination at the Cat and Rabbit Clinic on the Monday, I think I would now be making an appointment for euthanasia, if he hadn't already died first. I count myself very lucky to be close enough to that practice to be able to go there. I wish other vets were able to do the same things so others could benefit from such life-saving treatment. Perhaps training in Guinea Pig dentistry including conscious treament, should be a CPD option for vets with an interest in small mammals, allowing them to do it safely and to the highest welfare standards."

Sorry, this turned into an awfully long spiel! Maybe useful, maybe not!
Click to expand...
 
I just heard about this and it is beyond stupid. In 20 years of keeping guinea pigs we have had conscious dental work done many many times.
It should always be performed by someone trained. It does not upset the guinea pig at all, it is quick and effective and spares the risks assocaited with having to use anaesthetics, never mind the prohibitive associated costs since the insurance companies took over vetinary practices in the UK. This is really the point of this ban.. making sure the insurance companies keep a tight control.
 
Regrettably I can't provide a testimonial, however I distinctly recall coming across information about a procedure that addresses dental issues without the use of anesthesia. I found this approach to be incredibly impressive. It's widely known among both veterinarians and piggies owners that piggies don't tolerate anesthesia well and often struggle to recover from it. I've personally encountered numerous instances where I've had to endure immense stress while deciding against necessary treatments or analyses due to the lack of an option for conscious treatment in piggies.

Tragically, my own dear Rudi didn't survive his last surgery aimed at removing a tumor from his mouth. While the surgical procedure itself appeared successful, he never regained consciousness. Similarly, we lost Nocciola due to complications that I believe arose from anesthesia. The difficulties with anesthesia in pigs are well-documented, but the exact reasons behind their poor response remain unclear. Even seasoned exotic animal nurses and veterinarians have faced challenges in reviving them after undergoing anesthesia.

I was informed that trimming a pig's teeth is analogous to clipping their nails. In my view, this procedure should be permissible without anesthesia, particularly under the care of experienced veterinarians. When my vet gives the green light, I want to be able to trust their judgment and proceed without anesthesia. Is there any way to address this issue and bring about change?
 
Without concious dentals my Poppy would have died very quickly. When I first took her to Northampton, she was so frail they had to put her in an oxygen tent- this was after her concious dental. She would not have survived a GA. Thanks to her regular concious dentals, we got 3 more months with her. She went from not being able to eat at all and needing constant syringe feeding to being able to eat hay and her fave veggies in a day. On the train back to London from Northampton she was eating leaves! She also use to really enjoy the train lol, and we used to go and enjoy the park nearby when we arrived too early.

Sadly she died suddenly in October last year - not sure of the cause. But Kim and Simon still saved her life and for that I'm so grateful. So angry this is going to be taken away. I now pray I never have another dental pig.
 
I don't have any testimonials because I thankfully haven't had a dental pig yet but I am so sad and angry that they're trying to stop conscious dentals. They save so many piggies lives. Is there any latest or anything that can be done?
 
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