Help needed 🤞🐹

[Piggypants21]

Hi piggy lovers this is my first time using the forum and being a first time piggy mum so please be gentle
I recently separated my 2 boys that i bought in March and even though they are not from the same litter they were housed together when i bought them from a pet store. I'm not 100% sure of they're ages but from the advice i have been given i think Alf is around the 6mth mark and Eric around 9-10mth old. Now they have never seemed to be best friends and always just tolerated each other and seem to just get along for an easy life but the last 2 month all the dominant behaviour seems to have shifted to pure aggression coming from Alf towards Eric even though Eric always seemed to be the dominant one (although that used seem change daily) so hard to tell. Anyway these last 3 weeks i had noticed that during floor time which they have for about 70% of the day Alf would not leave Eric alone,the chasing,nipping and rumble strutting around with constant loud teeth chattering was happening all the time. It's then that i noticed Eric had small cuts on his nose and front left leg but to my knowledge no blood had been drawn and no serious injuries caused but it really upset me as things seemed to get worse every day and i saw Alf even go for Eric in the cage which never really happened before. I will attach pictures of the cage/cages because last Thursday i made the terrible decision to seperate them but they have ample space and had lots of floor and lap time.
I really wanted to reunite them at some point but worried because when they now do see each other through the bars all the rumble strutting and growling starts again (no teeth chattering) and they both also seem happy on their own with lots more pop Corning and running around ect.
They used always eat together and no one ever stopped the other from eating or drinking but i was worried sick all the time they had be left alone so for the health and happiness of my babies i had to get another cage. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and I'll attach pictures of them before the separation and the new set up now and video of one of the last times they had floor time together.
Thank you in advance

 

[Piggies&buns]

Welcome to the forum

Seeing dominance behaviours is normal but if cuts are occurring and their relationship seemed tense and they were generally unhappy then separating them was likely the right thing to do. If their bond is not functioning then you will not be able to reunite them - they have made their decision that they don’t want to live together.

It’s irrelevant now if their bond is no longer functioning, but should you decide to get each of them a new friend, then two boars need a cage of 180cm x 60cm as lack of space can lead to fall outs. I know you said they have free roam a lot of the time, but for the times when they were locked in, they needed a lot more space than it seems one of those cages could offer. Space is only part of the issue though and character compatibility is the most important part as of whether a bond will function.

A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Bonds In Trouble

 

[Piggypants21]

Welcome to the forum

Seeing dominance behaviours is normal but if cuts are occurring and their relationship seemed tense and they were generally unhappy then separating them was likely the right thing to do. If their bond is not functioning then you will not be able to reunite them - they have made their decision that they don’t want to live together.

It’s irrelevant now if their bond is no longer functioning, but should you decide to get each of them a new friend, then two boars need a cage of 180cm x 60cm as lack of space can lead to fall outs. I know you said they have free roam a lot of the time, but for the times when they were locked in, they needed a lot more space than it seems one of those cages could offer. Space is only part of the issue though and character compatibility is the most important part as of whether a bond will function.

A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Bonds In Trouble

Thank you for the information and advice and i will 100% have a good read and get more advice but was hoping to try and reunite them then attach the 2 cages together by lifting up one of the grids so they have 1 large adapted so they can maybe try again. I have never separated them before and don't want to keep trying because i know it causes more stress and upset ect but i thought maybe once would be okay then if that doesn't work leave them to live as they are. I will also look into buying a larger cage if they do need to live separate lives
Thank you again

 

[Piggies&buns]

If you want to try a reintroduction then it needs to be done on neutral territory, in a room or space which neither have them have been in before. You cannot just attach the two cages and let them go back together.
Sometimes with hormonal teens then a couple of days apart to let hormones settle and a reintroduction can work but you said things were becoming aggressive, you’ve found cuts and that one has seemed to ‘go for’ the other, so the chances of it working seem to be quite low.

If they live separately then each cage needs to be 120cm x 60cm.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi piggy lovers this is my first time using the forum and being a first time piggy mum so please be gentle
I recently separated my 2 boys that i bought in March and even though they are not from the same litter they were housed together when i bought them from a pet store. I'm not 100% sure of they're ages but from the advice i have been given i think Alf is around the 6mth mark and Eric around 9-10mth old. Now they have never seemed to be best friends and always just tolerated each other and seem to just get along for an easy life but the last 2 month all the dominant behaviour seems to have shifted to pure aggression coming from Alf towards Eric even though Eric always seemed to be the dominant one (although that used seem change daily) so hard to tell. Anyway these last 3 weeks i had noticed that during floor time which they have for about 70% of the day Alf would not leave Eric alone,the chasing,nipping and rumble strutting around with constant loud teeth chattering was happening all the time. It's then that i noticed Eric had small cuts on his nose and front left leg but to my knowledge no blood had been drawn and no serious injuries caused but it really upset me as things seemed to get worse every day and i saw Alf even go for Eric in the cage which never really happened before. I will attach pictures of the cage/cages because last Thursday i made the terrible decision to seperate them but they have ample space and had lots of floor and lap time.
I really wanted to reunite them at some point but worried because when they now do see each other through the bars all the rumble strutting and growling starts again (no teeth chattering) and they both also seem happy on their own with lots more pop Corning and running around ect.
They used always eat together and no one ever stopped the other from eating or drinking but i was worried sick all the time they had be left alone so for the health and happiness of my babies i had to get another cage. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and I'll attach pictures of them before the separation and the new set up now and video of one of the last times they had floor time together.
Thank you in advance

Hi and welcome

Please be aware that being friendly and supportive is our explicit forum ethos. We are also aiming to help you work on your individual challenge to the best of your personal ability but without any out of reach demands.

6 and 8-9 months are two of the trickiest periods during the ups and downs of the teenage months, so you are dealing with a double whammy. The weeks around 6 months are the time when the testosterone levels are at a life long high and the time around 8-10 months is the age when teenagers are starting to push the boundaries as they are eyeing up adulthood.

You can try a formal re-intro on neutral ground (i.e. a place that is not part of either boys regular territory). you will see lots of dominance behaviour, which is par for the course. If your boys are not getting on, then their exchanges will pretty quickly escalate in terms of tension and hostility.

Please brace yourself for plenty of rumble-strutting and other dominance behaviour. Rumble-strutting is the way boars measure up against each other in a peaceful way and establish a hierarchy amongst each other. The loser will move away from the winner's territory. It very much depends whether it is a joyful rumble-strutting or one where there is decidedly some grudge in play. But in itself it is mild dominance behaviour.
Compare these two videos. One is between two new neighbouring teenage 'husboars' measuring up against each other through the bars and the other between two surrendered fallen out boars in transit between rescues. The difference in tension is quite obvious!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1217102528320603

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1040686102770367

Teeth chattering depends on whether it is low level 'I don't like this' to high level intense chattering 'be careful around me or I might fight'; it is in any case, like most threatening behaviours more defensive than actually aggressive.

Please take the time to read the advice and information in these guides here so you know how to stage a re-intro but also learn to judge better where there is a real problem or not between the two.
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

If your boys still want to be together and can hack it, then the re-intro will work. If not, then you have done the right thing to separate and don't need to have a bad conscience about. I would however strongly recommend to have thick oven gloves and a carrier on stand by as fights can blow up very quickly if the wrong kind of signals are exchanged. You should know within 5-30 minutes whether yours still have a functional relationship or not.

All the best!

 

[Piggypants21]

Hi and welcome

Please be aware that being friendly and supportive is our explicit forum ethos. We are also aiming to help you work on your individual challenge to the best of your personal ability but without any out of reach demands.

6 and 8-9 months are two of the trickiest periods during the ups and downs of the teenage months, so you are dealing with a double whammy. The weeks around 6 months are the time when the testosterone levels are at a life long high and the time around 8-10 months is the age when teenagers are starting to push the boundaries as they are eyeing up adulthood.

You can try a formal re-intro on neutral ground (i.e. a place that is not part of either boys regular territory). you will see lots of dominance behaviour, which is par for the course. If your boys are not getting on, then their exchanges will pretty quickly escalate in terms of tension and hostility.

Please brace yourself for plenty of rumble-strutting and other dominance behaviour. Rumble-strutting is the way boars measure up against each other in a peaceful way and establish a hierarchy amongst each other. The loser will move away from the winner's territory. It very much depends whether it is a joyful rumble-strutting or one where there is decidedly some grudge in play. But in itself it is mild dominance behaviour.
Compare these two videos. One is between two new neighbouring teenage 'husboars' measuring up against each other through the bars and the other between two surrendered fallen out boars in transit between rescues. The difference in tension is quite obvious!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1217102528320603

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1040686102770367

Teeth chattering depends on whether it is low level 'I don't like this' to high level intense chattering 'be careful around me or I might fight'; it is in any case, like most threatening behaviours more defensive than actually aggressive.

Please take the time to read the advice and information in these guides here so you know how to stage a re-intro but also learn to judge better where there is a real problem or not between the two.
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

If your boys still want to be together and can hack it, then the re-intro will work. If not, then you have done the right thing to separate and don't need to have a bad conscience about. I would however strongly recommend to have thick oven gloves and a carrier on stand by as fights can blow up very quickly if the wrong kind of signals are exchanged. You should know within 5-30 minutes whether yours still have a functional relationship or not.

All the best!

Thank you for all the good information and advice. I must admit that my 2 boys are more like the second video but some days like the first so it's so confusing but they definitely act like the second pair more. I just want to give them the best happy life that i can so i thought that maybe give them 1 more chance of being reunited (oven gloves at the ready and everything else needed) and if that doesn't work then let them live separately and be healthy and happy side by side.