Help need advice

M

moosepistachiooreo

New Born Pup
Joined
Jul 9, 2023
Messages
35
Reaction score
7
Points
70
Location
Michigan
I have two male teenage guinea pigs that do not get along. they have recently been getting very close (faces touching close) for a few seconds and neither of them have been lunging or anything in those few seconds. I do pull them away from each other after those few seconds because I rather be safe than sorry. Is this a sign that they could be getting along, or that they will at some point?
 
How big is the cage? Same sex pairs usually work well but sometimes a pair of male Guinea pigs get territorial (especially in small spaces)

Here’s an article:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
We put the two of them together again (since a few weeks ago), and neither of them bit or lunged, just rare teeth chattering and rumble strutting. they shared food and cuddled (layed side by side), etc. Did one of them give up dominance?
 
I have deleted the duplicate threads you made on this subject.

On the other threads you said this behaviour was occurring between the bars. Between the bar behaviours are territory marking behaviours, not a sign they can get along. There is a difference to being able to share a territory again and come to a functioning hierarchy.

Have you actually put them together on neutral territory for a full on rebonding for several hours?
Are they still together in the same cage?
How big is the cage?

Be aware that piggies that previously fought are not likely to get on again. If they are still together you need to be keeping a very close eye on them.
 
PiggieBoo said:
How big is the cage? Same sex pairs usually work well but sometimes a pair of male Guinea pigs get territorial (especially in small spaces)

Here’s an article:
Click to expand...

I have removed the link. Please do not link to articles on third party websites. We have our own set of very comprehensive guides
 
Piggies&buns said:
I have deleted the duplicate threads you made on this subject.

On the other threads you said this behaviour was occurring between the bars. Between the bar behaviours are territory marking behaviours, not a sign they can get along. There is a difference to being able to share a territory again and come to a functioning hierarchy.

Have you actually put them together on neutral territory for a full on rebonding for several hours?
Are they still together in the same cage?
How big is the cage?

Be aware that piggies that previously fought are not likely to get on again. If they are still together you need to be keeping a very close eye on them.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if they will be able to share territory again or if they are just getting along due to the fact that they don't have to share territory. From what ive seen, it seems like one of them has Gaven up dominance but I'm not sure. And yes I put them on neutral territory but only had them out together for an hour and a half- 2 hours. They are currently still neighbors and I have not put the two of them together due to the fact that I don't know if they want to go back to sharing territory. The cage is 12 square ft. One of the guinea pigs (assumed submissive one) also keeps shoving his head under the other guinea pigs head and they both just stay like that for a while.
 
Piggies&buns said:
I have deleted the duplicate threads you made on this subject.

On the other threads you said this behaviour was occurring between the bars. Between the bar behaviours are territory marking behaviours, not a sign they can get along. There is a difference to being able to share a territory again and come to a functioning hierarchy.

Have you actually put them together on neutral territory for a full on rebonding for several hours?
Are they still together in the same cage?
How big is the cage?

Be aware that piggies that previously fought are not likely to get on again. If they are still together you need to be keeping a very close eye on them.
Click to expand...
and I was explaining them being close (face to face) out of their cage, not through the bars
 
moosepistachiooreo said:
I'm not sure if they will be able to share territory again or if they are just getting along due to the fact that they don't have to share territory. From what ive seen, it seems like one of them has Gaven up dominance but I'm not sure. And yes I put them on neutral territory but only had them out together for an hour and a half- 2 hours. They are currently still neighbors and I have not put the two of them together due to the fact that I don't know if they want to go back to sharing territory. The cage is 12 square ft. One of the guinea pigs (assumed submissive one) also keeps shoving his head under the other guinea pigs head and they both just stay like that for a while.
Click to expand...

Please do not put them together and then repeatedly separate them back into their own cages. This is stressful for them.
If you were going to attempt a rebond then you needed to have seen it through to conclusion - and that is if it went well in a neutral territory bonding pen then they needed to have moved back into the same cage together and stayed together permanently.
If things broke down again at any time during the first two weeks of rebonding then that is the answer that they do not want to be together.

If the cage they are in is 12 square feet then divided it must only be 6 square feet each which isn’t big enough for each piggy as a permanent home. Each single piggy needs a minimum of 8 square feet; as a bonded pair sharing territory they need 12 square feet.

You can never know if they actually want to share territory and can form a hierarchy until it is seen through.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Please do not put them together and then repeatedly separate them back into their own cages. This is stressful for them.
If you were going to attempt a rebond then you needed to have seen it through to conclusion - and that is if it went well then they needed to have moved back into the same cage together and stayed together permanently.
If things broke down again at any time during the first two weeks of rebonding then that is the answer that they do not want to be together.

If the cage they are in is 12 square feet then divided it must only be 6 square feet each which isn’t big enough for each piggy as a permanent home. Each single piggy needs a minimum of 8 square feet; as a bonded pair sharing territory they need 12 square feet.

You can never know if they actually went to share territory and can form a hierarchy until it is seen through.
Click to expand...
so should I put them together for a couple hours and if it goes well then put them together permanently and see how it goes?
 
moosepistachiooreo said:
so should I put them together for a couple hours and if it goes well then put them together permanently and see how it goes?
Click to expand...

If you are willing to attempt a rebond then yes.

A pair of teens with a broken bond, who could not form a functioning hierarchy first time and those who had fights and caused injuries, generally do not go back together long term though so always be prepared to separate again.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
 
moosepistachiooreo said:
is there a reason that they were getting along very well today and cuddling, eating together, etc?
Click to expand...

There are several stages of bonding - the whole process taking around two weeks.

The first stage is acceptance - if two piggies do not accept each other this part will fail quite quickly.
If they accept each other they go into the next stages - hierarchy and dominance phases.
The hierarchy and dominance phases are where they work out who is going to be the leader etc and settle their bond. Most of these phases actually take place after they have been moved to the permanent cage together, as the last phases take around the following two weeks to settle.
However even if two piggies accept each other things can still fail during the hierarchy and dominance phases if they cannot come to an agreement in these stages. This is why a bonding can still fail anything up to two weeks after bonding day.
This is also why you should not separate piggies who were ok together in the neutral territory bonding pen. They simply were not far enough into the process to know if they can get on.

Now you have separated, if you choose to put them together, they will need to start right from the beginning again. This is stressful for them to keep going through it and this is why bonding is a one time thing. Do it too often and it can hamper their ability to bond.
 
They were not okay together when I first put them together. A couple weeks later (now) is when they started to tolerate each other and actually be able to be around each other. Today was the first time they have been put together to see if they get along since the first time we adopted our other guinea pig. They got along today, I did not separate two okay guinea pigs from the beginning. They just started getting along, and I am curious if there is a chance they could live together without the seperator or not
 
moosepistachiooreo said:
They were not okay together when I first put them together. A couple weeks later (now) is when they started to tolerate each other and actually be able to be around each other. Today was the first time they have been put together to see if they get along since the first time we adopted our other guinea pig. They got along today, I did not separate two okay guinea pigs from the beginning. They just started getting along, and I am curious if there is a chance they could live together without the seperator or not
Click to expand...

If you have put them together today in neutral territory then their ability to try to reform a bond has only started again today. As you have also separated them again today after putting them in neutral territory today then their ability to try to reform a bond has been ended.

How they were getting on with a separator between them is not relevant. This is not an indicator of whether they can rebond.

The only way you can know if they can get on without the separator is to go through the full rebonding process - several hours in a bonding pen, if ok, move then to the cage together and wait out the next two weeks.

As you put them together today and then separated them again, it doesn’t tell you or them anything about whether they can come to a functioning hierarchy
 
Piggies&buns said:
If you have put them together today in neutral territory then their ability to try to reform a bond has only started again today. As you have also separated them again today after putting them in neutral territory today then their ability to try to reform a bond has been ended.

How they were getting on with a separator between them is not relevant. This is not an indicator of whether they can rebond.

The only way you can know if they can get on without the separator is to go through the full rebonding process - several hours in a bonding pen, if ok, move then to the cage together and wait out the next two weeks.

As you put them together today and then separated them again, it doesn’t tell you or them anything about whether they can come to a functioning hierarchy
Click to expand...
okay thank you
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top