Help! i think I'm losing My Gizmo

[metalhead]

Hi, so following on from my hello in the introduce yourself forum, more details about Gizmo. In mid december last year i got up to find Gizmo with a head tilt, i rushed him to my nearest vet (my Cavy vet is 40 mins away and i was not sure he had that long) and she treated for an ear infection, even though i told her he had no other symptoms and she just said to me " well i dont really know anything about guinea pigs" so i got an appt with my cavy vet the next day, by which time i had realised Gizmo was blind in his right eye, which is what was most likely causing the tilt, the vet agreed. Gizmo over the next few weeks seemed to adapt and cope very well, pretty much returned to normal until last thursday night when he seemed unresponsive, his brother, Smokey Joe, was licking and nudging him and he was not moving, i gently got him into a cozy and he came round, i immediately gave him critical care which he happily took and popped him back in with his brother and he seemed fine, however i watched him constantly, (they live in my lounge) over the next day or so and saturday morning he did not come for his breakfast, i encouraged him down and it was apparent he was really struggling to eat so i took him to the vet who kept him in and put him under anesthetic and check his teeth which were fine but he had bits of hay stuck in his mouth and have him a through physical exam and could not find anything. I brought him home and started critical care syringe feeding, the vet also put him on antibiotics and metacam incase the bits stuck in his moth had caused an infection. We got to monday and i had decided that because he was struggling so much to eat and drink that it was time for the rainbow bridge, but by some miracle he started to eat and drink on his own hours before we were due to leave for the appt, so after disscussing with the vet we decided to give him a little more time. Where we are now is that he can eat and drink, but he is not doing either enough, and i have decided that unless that picks up markedly in the next week, then the kindest thing to do is PTS. I think there is either a neurological issue or possibly CBS, either way there is no cure. If anyone has any thoughts or experience, i would very much welcome any comments, also, i should mention, i suffer with very severe anxiety and depression and am finding this whole thing completely heartbreaking, so be gentle, but also be honest please. Thank you for taking the time to read xx

 

[VickiA]

I’m so sorry. It does sound like it may be a neurological issue. Are you able to support him with syringe feeding for a short period to see whether he may be able to recover?

 

[weepweeps]

I’m so sorry your little Gizmo is so unwell. You are doing absolutely everything you can at this time to help him. I think it’s right to give him a little more time just so you know in your heart you tried everything. I think you’ll know quickly if the time is right to send him over the bridge. Take care.

 

[metalhead]

I’m so sorry your little Gizmo is so unwell. You are doing absolutely everything you can at this time to help him. I think it’s right to give him a little more time just so you know in your heart you tried everything. I think you’ll know quickly if the time is right to send him over the bridge. Take care.

Thank you, I have to give him every chance but balance that with not allowing him to suffer. Your kind works mean a lot, thanks x

 

[Wiebke]

Hi, so following on from my hello in the introduce yourself forum, more details about Gizmo. In mid december last year i got up to find Gizmo with a head tilt, i rushed him to my nearest vet (my Cavy vet is 40 mins away and i was not sure he had that long) and she treated for an ear infection, even though i told her he had no other symptoms and she just said to me " well i dont really know anything about guinea pigs" so i got an appt with my cavy vet the next day, by which time i had realised Gizmo was blind in his right eye, which is what was most likely causing the tilt, the vet agreed. Gizmo over the next few weeks seemed to adapt and cope very well, pretty much returned to normal until last thursday night when he seemed unresponsive, his brother, Smokey Joe, was licking and nudging him and he was not moving, i gently got him into a cozy and he came round, i immediately gave him critical care which he happily took and popped him back in with his brother and he seemed fine, however i watched him constantly, (they live in my lounge) over the next day or so and saturday morning he did not come for his breakfast, i encouraged him down and it was apparent he was really struggling to eat so i took him to the vet who kept him in and put him under anesthetic and check his teeth which were fine but he had bits of hay stuck in his mouth and have him a through physical exam and could not find anything. I brought him home and started critical care syringe feeding, the vet also put him on antibiotics and metacam incase the bits stuck in his moth had caused an infection. We got to monday and i had decided that because he was struggling so much to eat and drink that it was time for the rainbow bridge, but by some miracle he started to eat and drink on his own hours before we were due to leave for the appt, so after disscussing with the vet we decided to give him a little more time. Where we are now is that he can eat and drink, but he is not doing either enough, and i have decided that unless that picks up markedly in the next week, then the kindest thing to do is PTS. I think there is either a neurological issue or possibly CBS, either way there is no cure. If anyone has any thoughts or experience, i would very much welcome any comments, also, i should mention, i suffer with very severe anxiety and depression and am finding this whole thing completely heartbreaking, so be gentle, but also be honest please. Thank you for taking the time to read xx

Hi and welcome

BIG HUGS

I am very sorry; you are doing all you can.

Unfortunately, I agree with your assessment. I lost my Meleri last Autumn to what I suspect in retrospective could have been fast onset CBS syndrome (especially after speaking to Saskia when her article for Guinea Pig Magazine hit my desk some weeks later). Meleri suddenly lost sight in her remaining eye on the day her husboar died from an ongoing unrelated health problem and then started to increasingly stumble and struggle to control her balance and movement some days later. In her case, a head tilt was only minimal and very fleeting and her eating was not affected until the very last stages. I had to pts her 4 weeks after the first symptom, right in the middle of the petrol crisis when getting to any vet on a nearly empty tank was a rather fraught exercise.
At the time, I had a strong feeling that I was dealing with a very specific issue that was causing all the symptoms and the steady progression; and that it was most definitely NOT e.cuniculi, of which we see cases on here every now and then - which was the only thing my local vets could come up with. It was one of my more harrowing experiences because I felt so helpless as there was very little I could do for her apart from making sure that I let her go at the right time for her. Very much a throwback to the olden times where these kind of experiences were sadly very common as so little was known about guinea pigs.

Only an x-ray of the head (especially the middle ear capsules behind the eyes) will tell you whether Gizmo has CBS or not. We can also only guess but your symptoms and progression are well within CBS parameters as far as I can see. Most vets, even piggy savvy ones, will get a panicked look in their eyes when it comes to neurological issues with guinea pigs as that is pretty much unchartered territory.
It won't be quite easy to get them to accept it initially to do that crucial x-ray although it is likely to answer quite a few questions. So far, most CBS cases passing through here that I feel really answer the syndrome parameters have been from the USA where URI in chain pet stores is rampant and mostly goes untreated by both the stores and the new owners.
In many cases, milder and slower forms CBS are actually going unnoticed and don't need any major medical support; what you (and I) are dealing with is the extreme and very fast progressing form of it. Just cosmic bad luck...

You may find this guide below helpful for the coming days; it addresses all the aspects that come into play with end of life home care and any necessary medical decisions. It won't ease your heartbreak (since each bond is unique, that will never get less painful) but it can hopefully help you with going through the whole process with a clearer and somewhat easier mind and not suffer quite as badly from the inevitable feelings of guilt and failure that characterise the onset of the grieving process - which you are currently experiencing. The grieving process doesn't start with death but with the moment you realise that your piggy could have a fatal illness or may be dying.
Knowing that you have done all the right things but have come up against something where there is sadly no cure does help with being able to make some kind of peace with it eventually.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

Medical knowledge has made great steps forward over the last decade but that unfortunately just opens the horizon for more - and usually nastier and more complex - problems as we are increasingly dealing with the results of mass produced pets across the species, too.

I am extremely sorry that I don't have any better news for you. Sadly, my magic wand has been eaten by my piggies... Just concentrate on being there for your piggy as long as they have enough quality of life and then let them go and spare them any unnecessary suffering. Guinea pigs measure their lives in good todays (which I am sure you are giving yours plenty) and not in a set life expectancy. As long as you stick to that, you do not fail them whatever happens that is out of your own control.

PS: I am currently working on a forum guide on CBS syndrome with Saskia's proprietary permission but I had to wait until the magazine issue was out and she could publish her article first.

 

[metalhead]

Hi and welcome

BIG HUGS

I am very sorry; you are doing all you can.

Unfortunately, I agree with your assessment. I lost my Meleri last Autumn to what I suspect in retrospective could have been fast onset CBS syndrome (especially after speaking to Saskia when her article for Guinea Pig Magazine hit my desk). Meleri suddenly lost sight in her remaining eye on the day her husboar died and then started to increasingly stumble and struggle to control her balance and movement. In her case, a head tilt was only minimal and very fleeting and her eating was not affected until the last stages. I had to pts her 4 weeks after the first symptom, right in the middle of petrol shortages when getting to any vet on a nearly empty tank was rather fraught.
I had a strong feeling that I was dealing with a very specific issue that was causing all the symptoms and the steady progressing, and that it was most definitely NOT e.cuniculi, of which we see cases on here every now and then - which was the only thing my local vets could come up with. It was one of the more harrowing experiences because I felt so helpless as there was very little I could do for her apart from making sure that I let her go at the right time for her.

Only an x-ray of the head (especially the middle ear capsules behind the eyes) will tell you; we can also only guess but your symptoms and progression are well within CBS parameters. Most vets, even piggy savvy ones will get a panicked look in their eyes when it comes to neurological issues with guinea pigs as that is pretty much unchartered territory and it won't be quite easy to get them to accept it initially to do that crucial x-ray although it is likely to answer quite a few questions. So far, most CBS cases passing through here that I feel really answer the syndrome parameters have been from the USA where URI in chain pet stores is rampant and mostly goes untreated by both the stores and the new owners.
In most cases, milder and slower forms CBS are actually going unnoticed and don't need any support; what you (and I) are dealing with is the extreme and very fast progressing form of it.

You may find this guide below helpful; it addresses all the aspects that come into play with end of life home care and any necessary medical decisions. It won't ease your heartbreak (since each bond is unique, that will never get less painful) but it can hopefully help you with going through the whole process with a clearer and somewhat easier mind and not suffer quite as badly from the inevitable feelings of guilt and failure that characterise the onset of the grieving process which you are currently experiencing. Knowing that you have done all the right things but have come up against something where there is sadly no cure does help with being able to make some kind of peace with it eventually.
Medical knowledge has made great steps forward over the last decade but that unfortunately just opens the horizon for more - and usually nastier and more complex - problems as we are increasingly dealing with the results of mass produced pets across the species, too.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

PS: I am currently working on a forum guide on CBS with Saskia's proprietary permission but I had to wait until the magazine issue was out and she could publish her article first.

I am extremely sorry that I don't have any better news for you. Sadly, my magic wand has been eaten by my piggies... Just concentrate on being there for your piggy as long as they have enough quality of life and then let them go and spare them any unnecessary suffering. Guinea pigs measure their lives in good todays (which I am sure you are giving yours plenty) and not in a set life expectancy. As long as you stick to that, you do not fail them whatever happens that is out of your own control.

Thank you for such a considered reply, gizmos head tilt was also very fleeting, gone within 48 hours. I am sorry you lost your meleri, it is just heartbreaking. I also have a strong feeling that it is a specific issue causing the symptoms, and what you describe with meleri sound VERY familiar right now. I have thought about getting an xray, but i want to put gizmo to go through as little trauma as possible, and considering there is no cure for CBS or for any neuro issue, the findings would sadly not change the outcome, they would however tell me what is or is not going on possibly, but the way i am looking at it now is he will either improve to a standard at which i am happy to let him live (which will need to be a big improvement) or not, in which case i will PTS. I am trying to stay positive but in my head, with my knowledge of these wonderful animals and my experience in general, i know is is very likely to be the latter. I am weighing him daily and he is managing to eat a little by himself, he has started to refuse syringe feeding though and i will not force it, i strongly believe in listening to animals when they are trying to tell you something. I read the guide you have linked this morning, thank you. If/when it comes to it i need to know i did everything i could and gave him every chance, without allowing unnecessary suffering, i will find peace in it then, eventually. He is such a spirited little pig with the loudest wheek i have ever heard! once the symptoms take that spirit i will know its time, and i sadly think that time is close. I have followed Saskia and LA Guinea pig rescue for a long time, her work regarding CBS is amazing. Thanks again for your reply, it is very much appreciated, i will update this thread as and when there is any news x

 

[metalhead]

Gizmo is the lighter one on the right, the picture of the 2 of them enjoying their birthday presents last september. Gizmo has always been the crazy, loud one, and Smokey joe is gentle and laid back, they love each other so much.

 

[weepweeps]

They are both so gorgeous

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for such a considered reply, gizmos head tilt was also very fleeting, gone within 48 hours. I am sorry you lost your meleri, it is just heartbreaking. I also have a strong feeling that it is a specific issue causing the symptoms, and what you describe with meleri sound VERY familiar right now. I have thought about getting an xray, but i want to put gizmo to go through as little trauma as possible, and considering there is no cure for CBS or for any neuro issue, the findings would sadly not change the outcome, they would however tell me what is or is not going on possibly, but the way i am looking at it now is he will either improve to a standard at which i am happy to let him live (which will need to be a big improvement) or not, in which case i will PTS. I am trying to stay positive but in my head, with my knowledge of these wonderful animals and my experience in general, i know is is very likely to be the latter. I am weighing him daily and he is managing to eat a little by himself, he has started to refuse syringe feeding though and i will not force it, i strongly believe in listening to animals when they are trying to tell you something. I read the guide you have linked this morning, thank you. If/when it comes to it i need to know i did everything i could and gave him every chance, without allowing unnecessary suffering, i will find peace in it then, eventually. He is such a spirited little pig with the loudest wheek i have ever heard! once the symptoms take that spirit i will know its time, and i sadly think that time is close. I have followed Saskia and LA Guinea pig rescue for a long time, her work regarding CBS is amazing. Thanks again for your reply, it is very much appreciated, i will update this thread as and when there is any news x

Thinking of you and feeling with you - truly!

Just enjoy him as long as he has quality of life and the will to live. Once he is unable to walk without falling over/sliding to the side when lying or is unable to eat etc. then is most definitely the time to let him go. It is one of these more difficult cases where it is very much up to you how soon or late you want to draw the line, which doesn't make it any easier for you.

Saskia with literally thousands of guinea pigs passing through her rescue and her interest in medical issues has the ideal combination for picking up on certain things and putting them together that other places and most vets don't have. We often get only asked for one symptom; the problem is that each symptom in itself can have other causes. it is combination of symptoms and the progression that makes a syndrome - but you need to see it regularly enough to be able to connect the dots. Once you have experienced it and seen the progression (in fast forward in my own case), it is much easier to pick it up.

Sadly it is highly likely that we are going to see a lot more of it in the coming years once it becomes more widely known and accepted by vets. There will also be a phase when everything is explained as CBS as the new faddish health problem that is going to be thrown into the ring whether it actually applies or not; like we had when diabetes in guinea pigs came on the scene and was over-diagnosed for a time.
Hopefully a bit less here in the UK as pets@home has started with new breeding stock some years ago, which pretty much eliminated common URI in UK pet shop piggies (rather common a decade ago) but the increase of uncontrolled backyard bred online sales won't help. They seem to at least have finally done something about their massive (unacknowledged) ringworm problem when we had 10'000 hits per year of our ringworm care and hygiene guide in the last three years.
I want to state that I haven't had a respiratory problem with any of my piggies since well before Meleri came here in December 2017 although she is a pet shop pregnancy baby. And of course I can only ever guess what she died from since we most definitely did not have enough petrol available to get us to a specialist clinic in Cambridge or Nottingham for a post mortem examination as our local vets didn't feel qualified to do...

PS: You could ask for an x-ray if/when you have Gizmo pts if you feel that getting a clear positive or negative answer in this respect would help you coming to terms with it all.

 

[Wiebke]

Gizmo is the lighter one on the right, the picture of the 2 of them enjoying their birthday presents last september. Gizmo has always been the crazy, loud one, and Smokey joe is gentle and laid back, they love each other so much.
View attachment 195688

Gizmo reminds me of my Carwyn 'Blessed Love', who lived the second half of his life to the hilt after being cooped up in a 1 ft square neglect breeder box for 3 years. I still miss him; he was such a lovely, vocal boy. He quite literally didn't know how to run and had a habit of climbing on his companions to express his excitement instead.

 

[metalhead]

I have just been looking at your gallery, yes he does look like Carwyn! Caron also reminds me of Gizmo. Gizmo is usually very vocal, and he has gone very quiet, which is another reason i dont like the way its heading. You are right in it being very difficult, knowing where to draw the line is so hard, i would hate to call it too soon, and hate even more for him to suffer, I'm in a bit of a mess about it really, I'm a "heart" person and this is when i need to be a "head" person and i find that so hard! I think a few more days, see if the baytril does anything (i know it probably wont but i need to for my peace of mind) and we will take it from there. Thanks again for your time and kindness.

 

[Wiebke]

I have just been looking at your gallery, yes he does look like Carwyn! Caron also reminds me of Gizmo. Gizmo is usually very vocal, and he has gone very quiet, which is another reason i dont like the way its heading. You are right in it being very difficult, knowing where to draw the line is so hard, i would hate to call it too soon, and hate even more for him to suffer, I'm in a bit of a mess about it really, I'm a "heart" person and this is when i need to be a "head" person and i find that so hard! I think a few more days, see if the baytril does anything (i know it probably wont but i need to for my peace of mind) and we will take it from there. Thanks again for your time and kindness.

There is a grey zone where you are not going wrong with pts as long as you are putting Gizmo before your own fears. Listen to your gut; it will tell you when it is no longer fair on him. That is in my own experience the best way to come to terms in the long term. Heart and head will be at odds in the immediate wake but if you have gone with your gut feeling, you ultimately know that you have chosen right once your heart and your head have made peace with each other again.

PS: If you are in need of bit of a silly smile, watch some of the videos of Carwyn in his Rainbow Bridge thread. He sadly had to be pts for a brain tumor but I remember him much more and with great affection for the joy of a good life he had during the 3 1/2 years with the Tribe. His disfigured lip is a legacy of a fight with his brother before his surrender. There is always the short term pain of a loss but there is also the lasting affection and the celebration of the wonderful times you have shared in the long term.
It is those special happy memories that will warm your heart in dark moments in the long run. There is a tunnel but there is also a light on the other side of it when you realise that you never totally lose those you love because they are a part of your own life and live on in your memories. I cherish all my little furry guardian angels that help me look after my current piggies.
Here is the link: RIP Carwyn

 

[metalhead]

Bless little Carwyn, he looks so much like Gizmo! I love the video of him begging! I will always put his needs first, i strongly believe that animals are not "pets" they are companions, friends, and should be treated the way any living thing should be. Gizmo started the day quite bright but he has gone downhill quite quickly today, i think I'm going to have to make the decision.

 

[metalhead]

Well....i rang the vet and explained how Gizmo was, and although i knew this already, he advised PTS, there is no cure for CBS or a neuro issue and he was clearly very unhappy, he went downhill very fast this afternoon and i could not bear to see him like that. Wheek free over the rainbow bridge little fella, you were a beautiful little creature. Gizmo Pig 7/9/18 - 10/2/22. I will love you always.

 

[weepweeps]

I’m so sorry. Popcorn high over the bridge gorgeous.

 

[metalhead]

I’m so sorry. Popcorn high over the bridge gorgeous.

Thank you. I just hope his brother copes without him now, thats my worry x

 

[weepweeps]

See how his mate gets on in the coming days. That will show you how quickly you need to make any decisions.

 

[metalhead]

See how his mate gets on in the coming days. That will show you how quickly you need to make any decisions.

yes i will, the vet and the lady i board them with when i am away who is very experienced both said that because he is in my house not outside he should be fine with me for company, i hope so

 

[weepweeps]

He may need another buddy one day.

 

[Merab]

So very sorry that you lost Gizmo.
You clearly loved him very much and did everything possible for him.
Be gentle with yourself as you grieve.
Holding you in my heart

 

[metalhead]

So very sorry that you lost Gizmo.
You clearly loved him very much and did everything possible for him.
Be gentle with yourself as you grieve.
Holding you in my heart

Thank you, getting up to his brother smokey joe this morning also hearbreaking, seeing him there without gizmo x

 

[Free Ranger]

The 'watchful waiting' period as a beloved piggy is approaching his end never seems to get any easier. My head-tilt piggy was pts when he started to fit one evening but between the fits he seemed normal, if a little tired, so even then I was questioning myself...
I'm so sorry for the loss of your lovely boy. You obviously did everything you could. Smokey Joe will be helped by your presence. My old boy George (on the left) was such a comfort to me when Ivy died during lockdown and I was a comfort to him during the weeks he was alone. When his new companions arrived he was much less tolerant of my company! You'll both get through this together x

 

[Bill & Ted]

I’m so sorry you had to say goodbye to your beautiful boy, but it was made from love
Sleep tight Gizmo

 

[metalhead]

The 'watchful waiting' period as a beloved piggy is approaching his end never seems to get any easier. My head-tilt piggy was pts when he started to fit one evening but between the fits he seemed normal, if a little tired, so even then I was questioning myself...
I'm so sorry for the loss of your lovely boy. You obviously did everything you could. Smokey Joe will be helped by your presence. My old boy George (on the left) was such a comfort to me when Ivy died during lockdown and I was a comfort to him during the weeks he was alone. When his new companions arrived he was much less tolerant of my company! You'll both get through this together x

Thank you, I'm sorry for your loss too, its just so hard. I am doing all i can to comfort Smokey Joe x