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Dental HELP! Guinea pig having dental issues and been told only option is for her to be PTS.

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Claudia Ashdown

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Hi guys, it's my first post on here lol but desperate times, please could someone provide some advice!

I have a 2-year-old female Teddy who I noticed 10 days ago had issues with eating and biting off her food with her front teeth, and saw her 4 incisors were at a slanted diagonal angle. I knew that this meant she probably had issues with her molars.

Last Thursday I took her to our vet who said he saw spurs on her molars, so he would need to cut and rasp them. The following day she was placed under GA and had dental surgery. She was given no medications post-op. She was still struggling to eat post-surgery and we noticed no change. Then come Monday her whole lower left jaw is hard and swollen and I took her back to the vets on Tuesday of this week who said she had an abscess and stated it's likely it was always there and that perforations from the dental surgery probably made it worse.

She was sedated and the abscess was drained and I have been feeding her 5-10ml of Oxbow critical care every couple of hours, along with probiotics, watermelon, banana, and a dandelion and plantain herb mix (she can't open her mouth very wide at all to get any food in so it's either tiny pieces of food she can have, or she's being syringe fed - she is still losing weight despite this).

I felt another hard lump yesterday in the same place as her previous abscess as I was flushing her wound, so I called my vet and she was seen this morning. I've been told the lump isn't her abscess coming back but instead is a sack of sebaceous fluid? The vet has said our piggie's prognosis isn't good as they don't want to take her molars out but in their eyes, they feel they can't do anything to fix her eating issues, so the only option is for her in their mind is to be PTS.

I'm seeing a different vet today to get a second opinion, I've contacted TEAS and booked an appointment to see Simon Maddock in Northampton, but unfortunately, that isn't for another 3 weeks as he is away on holiday.

Please can someone let me know if this really is the end of the road for our girl? Is it cruel to keep her being syringe fed for the next 3 weeks until we see Simon? She's so young and so full of life we don't want to give up. We love her so much, she has energy as she's been jumping on top of her guinea pig house to watch her brothers and sisters (she's currently separated so her wound can heal), she puts up the most MAJOR fight with me when I try to syringe feed her food and meds lol and then will scamper off afterwards and potter about. She tries SO hard to eat her nuggets, greens, and hay but paws at her mouth every time she tries to swallow/chew her food, so clearly she's in pain. She's on 0.36ml of Baytril and Metacam x2 a day just for reference.

Thank you in advance!
 
Contacting TEAS and booking an appointment with Simon are certainly the best things you could have done here!
Keep your piggy as pain free as you can and keep up the syringe feeding, difficult times but please dont give up hope until you've seen the expert dental vet, many of his patients do very well with very severe dental problems x
 
Hi, I am so sorry to hear about your girl :( If she is taking the syringe feed and other bits then it isn’t cruel to carry on syringing her until you see Simon. @furryfriends (TEAS) who runs TEAS have piggies who wouldn’t have survived if it wasn’t for syringing feeding and they have all lived a very happy life x
 
Thank you SO much for your kind words, we won't give up hope and will continue syringe feeding her and keeping her pain managed!

I can't help but feel maybe our vet made her teeth situation even worse? As although she wasn't eating great, she could eat better before her first dental surgery even took place and she's struggling even more so post-op and has ended up with an abscess wound that needs cleaning multiple times daily.

If you have advice on anything else we can give to her to supplement her diet for the next 2-3 weeks that would be most appreciated! Thanks again for your help and advice :)
 
Oh gosh, you are in exactly the same position I was a year ago! My boy was really bad and I had to wait for Simon and Kim to return from holiday.

Definitely follow advice from Debbie at TEAS, she’s wonderful, and really helped us through.

Keep syringe feeding and nursing her, it’s exhausting (I’ve been there), but you can do this.
Always here if you need to talk!
sending lots of love 💕
 
Perhaps grating some tasty veg might make it easier for her to eat, and you can also offer recovery food mixed with grated veg in a dish as well as in the syringe if she will eat some like that too, anything to keep her eating until her appointment. I have tagged your post as "dental" so hopefully the more experienced forum members with dental expertise will see it more easily.
But Debbie @furryfriends (TEAS) is really our most experienced person with supporting dental piggies x
 
Oh my goodness what a stressful situation you are in. I have no experience with dental piggies but I just wanted to offer my support to you. Good luck. Be strong. You are giving her a second chance. She hasn’t given up and neither have you. All the best. Everyone on this forum will be here for you. ❤️
 
I have syringe fed a piggy for a number of weeks in the past and it makes a real difference if they actually want the food. If they are fighting off the syringe it is very hard to do, but if you can into a routine it helps. If she can eat a little by herself you do not need to do every 2 hours, you can space it out a bit. Daily weighing (at the same time) helps you to keep track of how she is managing. Can she eat grass? Do you have antibiotics and pain relief? Guinea pigs can tolerate high doses of metacam/loxicom and this is really needed after dental surgery anyway as the mouth can be very sore, even without complications. Dog strength (1.5mg/ml) is harder to get since they licensed the cat strength one (0.5 mg/ml) for piggies but you might be able to argue that large volumes of cat strength will be harder to administer to her swollen mouth. Controlling her pain will really help and if she is pushing the boundary for PTS the vet should have fewer qualms about high doses (my girl Zara is currently on 6u dog strength which is about 1.2ml cat strength) and it has no adverse effects at all. I have put a bowl of matchstick veg in with her at night as she is struggling with hay at the minute - but I have to block her friend out with bars so she gets all the time she needs to eat it. Zara will not eat syringe food from a bowl (she hates it from the syringe anyway) but her friend slurps it up if she gets the chance... will your piggy lick it from a little plate? I tried the oxbow but she looked thunderstruck at the aniseed flavour so we are sticking with science selective 'Recovery' which she also hates but at least she doesn't make out like I'm trying to poison her. I'm also getting in some Fibreplex to support my girl's tummy because we will be on antibiotics for a long time I think. I'm getting in some of the Oxbow Fine Grind as I hear it is papaya flavour and might be more popular. Zara has incisor trouble - as far as we know - so she is not suffering quite so much. My heart goes out to you x

Did she just have the dental on molars at one side or both? And were her incisors 'adjusted' at all? My girl Ivy who was syringe fed for about 6 weeks (exclusively) had to have her incisors burred towards the end as she wasn't biting anything so they were overgrown and she couldn't close her mouth. We did it during the day between 7 am and 11 pm with about 4 feeds total. But it turned out her issues were likely not dental.

Get registered at C&R and book an appointment... but also explain your situation. I hear that if you are registered they have emergency slots that you might be able to call in for and those vets will be back from the 9th. Removing teeth in a cat or dog is quite normal but removing molars from a piggy would seem a step too far for me. That's the point I would have to consider whether she would just be miserable and slowly deteriorating. But if she is young and strong Simon and Kim will let you know whether she has a chance. And when you see some of the piggies @furryfriends (TEAS) has helped - well, miracles can happen! But it's hard right now and the wait seems very long. All we can do is try and help our pigs stay comfortable and try and keep their spirits up.
 
PS: I'm sure you must be on antibiotics by now for the lump in the jaw but this will also help with another problem we encountered with Ivy, who had trouble swallowing. Whether it was from her original GA and dental or from constant syringing she inhaled something at some point and quickly developed an upper respiratory infection (URI) but luckily she was given ABs as well as painkiller after the burr so this was dealt with. 3-4 weeks later she got another, which must have been from my syringing badly (swallowing issues etc) and had more antibiotics. It's tempting to syringe water if they are not drinking (although syringe food and veg in combo is a very wet diet) but it is dangerous to syringe water, very thin slurry, or too much in one mouthful. Watch out for symptoms of URI - raspy breathing, fast breathing, runny eyes or nose etc so you are ready to move fast if it is required. If you are on ABs and painkillers anyway it is one less thing to worry about x
 
Thank you again everyone for your kind messages, we really appreciate it!

She had the dentals down on both sides of her lower molars, as well as having her incisors straightened out by our vet, but the bottom incisor has already started to get a bit slanted again which to me would imply the job perhaps hasn't been done properly.

She's on Baytril and Metacam at the moment twice a day at 0.36ml, she absolutely hates the Critical Care (I think it's the aniseed flavour she dislikes) but has been eating it (reluctantly) whenever I've syringe fed her, she absolutely would not eat it out of a bowl. The only time we give her water in a syringe is with her probiotics, which we give her around 0.8ml every time we feed her CC. I won't give her as much CC if we have the other bits for her too, we've even bought Oat Hay as we were told this is softer and easier for piggies to eat but she is still struggling to bite down, chew and swallow properly.

We feel we can't give up on her just yet as she has literally only just turned 2 and only in the past 10-14 days has she been this bad healthwise, other than that she has been the pinnacle of good health in a piggy. Fortunately, we've not heard any raspy breathing or seen her with a runny nose, only a hoarse wheek and chatter and some eye crusts after her surgery which I would assume would be due to the GA/sedative? Hopefully getting a second opinion later today from this local vet will help, but ideally we are waiting for Simon/Kim as we know they're the experts.

Thank you again for all your help everyone <3
 
Betsy said:
If your piggy doesn't like CC have you tried other Recovery feeds? Mine aren't keen on CC but love Science Selective Recovery Plus. It's important that you get the Plus one as it has the added Vitamin C in it.
Click to expand...
I would second that.
When I had a log term piggy on syringe feeding I found Science Selective Recovery was the most popular.
I also mixed it up using her regular pellets soaked to make a mush as a replacement and to add variety.

It sounds like you are doing great job and giving your girl every chance.
Hang in there.
 
Betsy said:
If your piggy doesn't like CC have you tried other Recovery feeds? Mine aren't keen on CC but love Science Selective Recovery Plus. It's important that you get the Plus one as it has the added Vitamin C in it.
Click to expand...
Swissgreys said:
I would second that.
When I had a log term piggy on syringe feeding I found Science Selective Recovery was the most popular.
I also mixed it up using her regular pellets soaked to make a mush as a replacement and to add variety.

It sounds like you are doing great job and giving your girl every chance.
Hang in there.
Click to expand...
I also add a bit of grated banana, carrot or sweet potato as well as oats for added variety.
 
Claudia Ashdown said:
Thank you SO much for your kind words, we won't give up hope and will continue syringe feeding her and keeping her pain managed!

I can't help but feel maybe our vet made her teeth situation even worse? As although she wasn't eating great, she could eat better before her first dental surgery even took place and she's struggling even more so post-op and has ended up with an abscess wound that needs cleaning multiple times daily.

If you have advice on anything else we can give to her to supplement her diet for the next 2-3 weeks that would be most appreciated! Thanks again for your help and advice :)
Click to expand...
I’m sorry sorry to hear about Teddy’s dental problems. Most vets in this country rarely have that much experience especially when it’s performing a guinea pig dental. Your experience is very familiar with the forum and personally, where you find the dental performed is a mess and makes matters much worse than before. Please book an appointment for Simon or Kim Maddock at the Cat and Rabbit Clinic ASAP. They are on holiday atm but will be back around the 9th, you can also ring for emergency appts at 8.00 am but they go like lightening. Your piggie will be examined and any dental work done there and then, it’s done consciously so no GA hence a lot cheaper and you don’t need referrals either.
Please keep on with the feeds, can she eat plain dry porridge oats, leave a bowl in her cage. Try hand feeding too and perhaps grating carrot or buy salad with beetroot sticks in them too.
Simon gave my rainbow piggie nearly three years of extra life when my local vet said there was no more he could do so please don’t loose heart. Ring your vet and ask for some Metacam pain and anti-inflammatory, she won’t attempt to eat if she is in pain
 
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Just to add - we tried the oxbow fine grind today which is in the brown packet and does have a fruity flavour... it seemed to go down pretty well with Zara. We had to wait a few days for it to arrive but she was OK on the Recovery until then. I was blitzing things in the nutribullet to mix in with it! Nearly blew it up when I put grass in - should have cut it into short bits first!
 
Emeraid Sustain was always Ted favourite, he hated all the others, they also do a fine grind too
 
So sorry you’re having such a difficult time.
If I have to syringe feed I also tuck a small dish of CC in the cage to supplement the syringe.
Mine love the Oxbow Critical Care best of all.
I add a bit of mashed banana in as well.
Shredded or grated veggies also help.
Holding you in my thoughts
 
Thank you for the update guys!

I've spoken with Debbie from TEAS who has been such an amazing help, so thank you!

From next week we're going to try and call into Simon Maddock's practice and get our baby girl seen as an emergency appointment, otherwise, we will have to wait 3 weeks! We are feeding her mashed-up nuggets with a scoop of critical care and a scoop of probiotics which she is taking much better than the sole critical care thank goodness! She was 880g when last weighed at the vets a few days ago and yesterday was 932g when we weighed her at home. She is alert, wanting to cuddle and potter about and has been chatting away also and trying to wheek (she sounds hoarse every time she does bless her).

For the time being, we're keeping her medicated and syringe fed - as soon as we have an update for you guys after we've seen Simon I'll post one but thanks again for all your tips and tricks - we're so grateful to you all!
 
Hi all,

I am sorry for the delayed response - these past weeks have been hectic, draining, and stress-filled but fortunately, things are slowly but surely starting to look better.

Thank you so much to everyone for your help and advice - especially Debbie from TEAS who took the time to phone me and text me to offer her support.

When we took Indie to Northlands Cat and Rabbit Vet Clinic we met with Kim (who is SO lovely btw!). Kim noticed immediately that Indie, unfortunately, has a chronic issue with her teeth where they are too wide and too flat naturally, so it's harder for her to grind up her food when she eats. Added to that, she has a pesky spur at the back of her molar that keeps trying to make its way out into her mouth and cuts her tongue when it does. These issues are probably going to be lifelong, but we are dedicated to making sure Indie has the best quality of life - so the 5-6 hour round trips to Northampton and back are worth it!

Her abscess unfortunately also started to get bigger again, so Kim prescribed Zithromax which worked wonders! I did have to express the puss out of Indie's neck most days for about 10 days after our first appointment with Kim as it was oozing, but there is currently no abscess there, so fingers crossed it stays that way 🤞 (Please note, Kim mentioned about 10% of piggies do NOT do well with Zithromax and it can stop them eating so that is something to be mindful of).

We have visited the clinic twice now and are due to go again in 2 weeks' time to get Indie's teeth filed down, and are hoping that gradually the appointments will need to be less frequent once her teeth are essentially 'trained' to grow back a certain way. Unfortunately, she's now developed ringworm as her immune system has really taken a beating, but she's on Itrofungol, and when we weighed her the other night she was 975g (over 100g up from when she visited the original vets who said she had to be PTS!).

TO ANYONE GOING THROUGH THE SAME THING:

Please do give Kim and Simon a chance if you feel you're at the end of the road with options for your Piggies.

Kim did express that my vet wasn't incorrect in saying that Indie could have been PTS, as her particular issue with her teeth is difficult to treat if you're not a dental expert with guinea pigs - however, in this case, it's treatable and manageable you must always put the health, welfare, and wellbeing of your piggie first!

I am just so grateful to have had your support and advice on visiting the dental experts! We owe SO much to Northlands for providing Indie with another lease of life! Thank you ❤️
 
That’s brilliant news. It’s just such a shame that 99% of vets can’t do this type of work. 🙁. I hope Indie continues doing so well. ❤️
 
Unfortunately this is such a familiar story....it's so frustrating that Simon and Kim seem to be the only real option in these circumstances. It's just crazy when you think of our whole country and how many vets there are and yet the vast majority seem unable to treat these issues effectively!
 
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