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Help For Romesh Required.

H

HBear

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Hi All. One of our lovely guinea pigs, Romesh went off his food and was seemingly quite lethargic from Tuesday midday. He had joined in with eating fresh veggies in the morning. I took him to the vet later that day and she thought that one side if his stomach was slowing down a bit. His temperature was good as was the rest of his check. She diagnosed Cisapride and Metoclopramide for gut stimulation and Rheumocam for pain relief all of which we have been giving him. He has been eating hay again along with mint and some veggies. I am really struggling with syringe feeding him Critical Care and am seriously worried that this will affect his outcome. Tuesday and Wednesday he weighed 1160g and today he is 1130g. If anyone can advise me on the best course of action I would be really grateful as I’m beginning to worry more. To top it all off I‘ve tested positive for Covid this morning so I’m trying to be extra careful with cleanliness and masks etc. but this may well preclude another vet visit if its required.

Thanks for any help you can give.
 
Thanks for the reply, yes he is really fighting against the syringe feeding. I’m getting very small amounts of Critical Care and some water into him but very worried over the weight loss. The gut stimulant meds seem to give him the desire to eat though and he is definitely more interested in hay and muesli than he was but he only appears to eat in small amounts. He his sat in one of his hay trays slowly munching hay as I speak, as I’ve just cleaned their cages!
 
It’s obviously brilliant he is showing interest in hay. 30g of weight loss isn’t yet considered weight loss - it’s still within normal fluctuation. 50g or more is weight loss.
Try putting a bowl of critical care in the cage (if his cage mate won’t eat it all!), or when you take him out to give him critical care, offer it in a bowl at that point to see if he will eat voluntarily or off of a teaspoon.
If he does continue to lose weight then it will need to be syringe fed to ensure he is getting enough. You just have to be firm with him. I know it’s not easy.
If he is starting to get the desire to eat now then that is good and hopefully means he is showing signs of improvement.

How much critical care had you been able to give to him? (In ml)

You mention muesli. Do note that muesli feeds should not be given as they contain unhealthy ingredients and cause selective feeding (they pick out the sweetest, highest sugar unhealthy items). Ensure you feed a plain grass/timothy hay based pellet and that you only give one tablespoon per pig per day.
 
I struggle to get even 1ml of critical care into him. Have been looking at a lot of videos, including the tips linked above by yourself in the hope of keeping trying and eventually succeeding. I have already tried to see if he would feed Critical Care out of the bowl but no joy.
Should I consider a return to the vets just yet do you think?
 
What was your boys diagnosis? It sounds like gut stasis but would not want to assume.
I have had a real fight with gut stasis this year, it can be/is a really tough thing to work through so please be kind to yourself in this time.

As for syringe feeding, please give yourself and him a chance, my boy absolutely despised getting syringe fed and would battle me for a good few days and then suddenly he was fine with it. It even became his favourite part of his day, as he was being fed almost every 2 hours for a few weeks, he would let me know when he was ready for more by putting his mouth on the syringe.
Another thing you can try is feeding it to him via a spoon/bowl, but if he is displeased with the fact he has to eat it in the first place this may not work.

If you are really struggling with it, and your boy enjoys nuggets, you could try adding some pellet mush into his critical care. Or if your boy is losing weight and you are still struggling with administering critical care you can feed pellet mush alongside critical care. There is a bit about such in the guides linked above.

Make a routine for you and your boy, if you follow a loose timetable you may find the stress to wear of a bit.
If your boy is still eating hay, as mine was, I kept him on 30-40ml of critical care a day as he was eating hay on his own. Around 100ml a day is near the total calories a piggy will eat in a day, so you may find this helpful to keep in the back of your mind. Weighing daily will/can help you decide how much your boy needs in a day, as it will depend on each piggy.
With syringe feeding in a pig who is eating hay but still having issues, you are aiming to keep the guts moving when they are struggling to do it on their own.

Stick in there, if you are not seeing any improvement in around a week you can always go back and speak about different options, as I know there is quite a few different options, such as probiotics etc.
After a couple of weeks of no improvement, I think the most medicines etc. my boy was on was 5, multiple times a day. I am not saying this is what will happen to you, I am just letting you know there are other options.

When making any changes I would urge you to speak to the vet first, as you would not want to accidentally make your situation worse.
Every ml counts, fingers crossed things will get easier soon, but you have to just continue to push because although he may not know it you are doing it for him.
You may want to think about making sure he is hydrated, as you are medicating likely multiple times a day, you can offer some water or syringe feed some water during medicine time. Just be aware that it may likely be thinner than his medication, so be careful how much you are giving as you do not want him to aspirate. (But if he is not noticeably drinking less, you may want to leave off doing this as it seems you already have so much on your plate, but I found it made me feel more comfortable knowing he has some water in him when he was sitting around all day long)

From start to finish my boy went between 1150g to 1034g, generally speaking a fluctuation on 30g is not really worrying, as he could have just had a big pee but I do understand the worry when a boy is ill. - Weight Monitoring and Management

What dosages are your boy on?
You are doing so well, you have to take everyday as it comes when it comes to things like this.
 
I’m sorry Romesh is unwell and you have Covid. Is there anyone who can sit him on their lap so you have two hands free to feed him? It really makes all the difference. I had to syringe feed a piggy for about 8 weeks last summer. I struggled for a few days and then roped in my husband to hold him.

I found the easiest way to do it was to sit on the floor in front of my husband and Pepper and hold his nose up gently and put the syringe in the side and squeeze a third of a syringe in. Good luck it does get easier.
 
HBear said:
I struggle to get even 1ml of critical care into him. Have been looking at a lot of videos, including the tips linked above by yourself in the hope of keeping trying and eventually succeeding. I have already tried to see if he would feed Critical Care out of the bowl but no joy.
Should I consider a return to the vets just yet do you think?
Click to expand...

Are you getting the syringe in the side of his teeth and in through the gap?
Is that 1ml per sitting?

If he loses weight then I would speak to the vet yes but at 30g as of today I would just keep trying.

The other thing to try is a different recovery feed . Some don’t like the taste of CC.
You mention you give muesli so this may not help if that is all you have, but normal guinea pig pellets can be mushed with water to make a slurry and then that can be fed to them. The tapered end has to be cut off the syringe if you use pellet mush though as it is more coarse and doesn’t through as easily as critical care.
The benefit is pellet mush is the familiar taste but would that still be just as unfamiliar to him if you do feed muesli?

Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links
 
Thank you to everyone who has posted a reply here and been such a great help and support.

Piggl you asked what dose is Romesh on. He has 0.2ml Cisapride 5mg, three times a day and 1.1ml Metoclopramide 5mg twice a day. The Rheumocam is 0.5ml 1.5mg twice a day. I was very interested to read that your boy was voluntarily eating hay and you gave 30-40ml of Critical Care Per day. I think this is where Romesh is at , at the moment.

Weepweeps, thank you. I have help in the morning and evening but just not during the day.
 
He is on some very decent doses of meds, but there are still some options to try from here, so if you are not seeing any improvement in the next couple days or so I would personally be looking to talk to the vet again.

Fingers crossed the medication will help and he starts to tolerate the support feeding.
 
Thank you . I managed to get a bit more into him this afternoon, around 3ml of CC and 2ml of water as he is not drinking for himself and was very keen prior to illness. He is still eating hay and has had grass and mint as well.
 
Given his tummy issues, I wonder whether he should be off the grass for now. @Piggies&buns

Do also feed the mint sparingly. I believe it’s a treat rather than a daily veg. Hope he improves.
 
Siikibam said:
Given his tummy issues, I wonder whether he should be off the grass for now. @Piggies&buns

Do also feed the mint sparingly. I believe it’s a treat rather than a daily veg. Hope he improves.
Click to expand...

Veg and grass is fine during stasis/partial stasis. Fibre (hay/syringe feed) is still the most important part but any food going in helps.
It’s during mild digestive issues (soft poops) and bloat episodes which veg and grass should be stopped.
 
How are his poops? We don't mind photos... but a description is fine.
Maybe normal shape but smaller? Or same size but twisty and dry-looking? Or too soft and squishy? And is output going up or down?

When my piggy had bloat she was full of gas which stopped her pooping so much and the poops were much smaller and shorter. The syringe food pushed the gas through so things picked up again. Pigs can't burp, so if gassy guts are the problem it has to come out the back. It's surprisingly instinctive for us to pop a pig up on our shoulder like a baby but as they don't burp there's not much point.

Most pigs are a bit cagey about a new food at first - especially if they're not very well. Hopefully once he's realised this new slop isn't toxic he'll want to tuck in a bit more. Good luck Romesh x
 
Update on Romesh today.
I (and he )am beginning to get a bit more used to syringe feeding I think. I’m consistently getting 4ml of water and 5ml of CC per sitting, and I‘m trying to do this every 2.5 hours or so during the day. When my wife got home last night we got 10ml of CC into him, and he is taking a drink of water on his own a bit now. He is still nibbling hay and was interested in his breakfast veg again this morning. His weight today is the same as yesterday at 1130g so I was a bit disappointed to see that hadn’t improved. We think we can see a brighter look in his eyes and also more energy to get around the cage, and the room when we let him out.
Thank you to everyone who has shown care for and interest in Romesh and for wishing him well.
 
That’s great news.
Don’t be disappointed that his weight is the same as yesterday. It is actually brilliant that it is the same - it means you’ve got a good amount of syringe feed into him. The goal of syringe feeding is not to gain weight, it is to stop weight loss which you have achieved. Weight gain won’t come until he is over the illness and back to eating enough hay for himself again. It takes them a lot longer to put weight back on than it does for them to lose it.
 
I agree. My boy Pepper took 10 months to gain the weight back after his tooth root abscess. It comes off so quickly but takes ages to put back on. It’s great news he’s stable.
 
We need more advice for Romesh. Firstly it turns out that I had misheard at the vets when I took him and that his weight was 1116g not 1160g! We run out of Cisapride yesterday so after a telephone conversation with a vet we got a top-up of meds and were told to monitor him and then call back on Tuesday if concerned. Last night we thought it best to give him a break from his medication as he seemed to be improving but today we’re not so sure so have re-commenced his meds along with critical care although he does seem to be rebelling against this more!
We’re a bit worried about overdoing the meds in case this has a longer term affect but obviously want the best for his recovery. Should we be worried about this and I presume you would advise persisting with the critical care feeding?

Thanks once again everybody.
 
Some older piggies get put on medication for the rest of their life, some piggies who struggle with mobility issues get put on strong doses of meds to help continually.
Basically I really do not think this is something you should be worrying about, these medications will continue to aid his digestion etc. and none of them have any general long term affect linked to them.
My boy with stasis was on these meds for just over a month, and then continually until eventually he had to be put down a month later, with no ill affects on him. And although I have no experience with long term medication administration, I know there are many people on this forum who do/have done.

Yes continuing with his support feeding is needed at this time. Have you managed to stabilize his weight? I found my boys weight was continually going up and down so this is why daily weighing is recommended and then used as a guide for how much feed to give.
How many mls are you getting in daily?

As for his meds, I would advise against stopping his meds just because he seems fine. Especially with things like gut stasis, I know how hard it is because they seem better one second and then worse the next, this is why you have to continue with the course as directed by your vet.
For gut stasis the period of "watch" is two weeks after the last symptom, if that puts it into perspective how delicate things like this are.
 
You are not overdoing meds - you are treating the issue. This can take several weeks and being on meds during that time would not be considered anything like overdoing it. You need to continue with the medication until the vet determines he is over the illness and certainly until his system is fully back working properly - maintaining his weight himself through hay intake, no syringe feed etc.
 
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