Help! Biting Boar...

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JohnnyH

JohnnyH

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi all,

I'm hoping someone here can point me in the right direction.

As the kids had done so well at school we decided to give in and get them the Guinea Pigs they had been on about for a year or so.
All went well, we got an indoor cage, a hutch for when the weather picks up, and I built a rather large run (give a man powertools and what do you expect:)) )

Anyhow, we took the kids to pick their pets, and they chose two boars who were living together with 4 or 5 others. One looked a little bigger than the other, and I would say that one is probably a month older. Maybe 2 months and 3 months in age.

As soon as they were in the cage at home, the larger one, Patch, took to making rumbling sounds and I guessed this was him establishing the pecking order. The smaller one, Pip, behaved like a young pup, and was being put in place.

This behaviour continued, although they both occupied the same "house" to sleep, despite there being two in the cage, and neither prevented the other from getting to food or water.

Two weeks on and I noticed the smaller of the two, Pip, had a "bite" mark on the side of the face, in the whisker area, and there was a red sore area and fur missing.
At first I thought it might be mites, so we bathed and cleaned and kept an eye.
Two days later another "blood" mark a little way above the nose...
And today a "bite" which was had bled just above the nose.

Naturally the kids are upset, the wife is anxious, and I am left to find a solution that makes everyone happy.

I have explained to the kids that animals can behave this way, and when we take responsibility for pets we take it seriously and deal with whatever happens. I also pointed out that whilst it is natural for us to blame Patch, Patch is just behaving like the dominant Guinea Pig he is and doesnt understand that it offends us.

So, for tonight I have put a divider in the cage, and they have half each. Each has a water bottle, hay, feeding hay and food, and each has a house.
So I don't feel too guilty other than the limited space.

Since they have been removed, all rumbling and posturing by Patch has stopped. Although both are very quiet and subdued.

I should mention that whatever is going on, the pair of them have always snuggled up together in the same house.

That aside, Patch is more adventurous and will wriggle and explore - getting fidgety after maybe 5 to 10 mins of lap time, where as the smaller one Pip will allow himself to be picked up straight away and will simply sit still and be stroked for an age.

So, the question is, what do I do?
Do I find a way to keep them apart? Do I try and get them to play together but live apart? Do I put them back together after 24 hours apart?

Any advice on best practice really appreciated, I want the family to be happy, I want the Guinea Pigs to be happy.... me, I just want a quiet life :))
 
Hi, can I ask how big the cage is that they are in. They are just starting their hormonal stage of life too which won't help. Boars usually are better with two of everything so that they aren't in each others way. Two bottles, two bowls, two hidey dens etc. Perhaps Pip is just too close and Patch wants some personal space. If you haven't actually witnessed them rolling around taking chunks out of each other then it is probably Patch being over territorial and bulling Pip rather than full on fighting, more space may help. To rebond them you can bath them but I am not a boar expert so I hope someone else can give some more details.
 
Hi, at the moment they are in an indoor cage, approx 100 x 50 x 60 (cms)

They havent used the hutch or run as yet, but he run I have built is about 100 x 150 x 60 (cms), and the hutch is 150x60x60 (again cms)

I havent seen any "fights", the odd "nudge" that makes one (usually Pip) jump and scamper away, but no attacks just lots of rumbling and swaggering.

Has to be said we are all feeling pretty sad, and want to do the best thing to make it right.

Thanks for your help.
 
It could be that the cage is too small. The minimum recommended is 120 cm so that they can have enough space and run around (laps). With boars, it is even more important to have sufficient space, as each has to have his own territory. You could try them in the bigger hutch and see if that makes a difference. However, be warned, if blood has been drawn it is often hard to establish or re-establish a bond. If they continue to fight you have two options - return one to the place you got it from and ensure that the next one is compatible. This is what boar dating means, and probably has to be handled by a rescue (a pet shop will think you're nuts!). Second, you can separate the boys, neuter them and get a girl each as company. Pls be aware that if you do this, there are risks to the health of the pig and you should check out this forum for a cavy savvy vet with significant experience and success rates (particularly looking for after post op to check abscess rate). Whereabouts in the country are you? We might be able to put you in touch with a rescue that can help you.
 
Ah, the cage is too small I'm afraid. RSPCA minimum requirements are 120 x 60 cm. Boars really need more space than that especially if one is quite hormonal. I would try them in the hutch it is a much better size for two boars. Be careful not to change the temperature they live in too suddenly, do you have a shed or garage that the hutch could go in while it is still cold? Maybe put them in it during the day so they can adjust to the temperature, or better still, if you can bring the hutch indoors till it's warmer.

Indoor cages are often a problem, pet shops sell all sorts of rubbish that is "suitable for guinea pigs" it often isn't but most people don't realise. The rumbling and nudging is perfectly normal, just saying "I'm top pig". Just the bites that are a bit worrying. Hope your boys settle down soon :)
 
hey :)
Again no boar expert however guineapigs in general no matter how close the pair is will have there tiffs. It might be that they are nipping at each other and biting just a lil too hard at each other. And as someone has already said unless they are properly fighting it may just be a space thing :) My friend owns to boars and she is a member of the piggy formum and has better knowledge on this area than me so I shall send her the link for your post and get her to see if she can help :D Hope all goes well :)
 
http://cavyspirit.com/sociallife.htm
Just thought of this link, about halfway down the page it explains bonding and what is normal. Drawing blood is not always the end to a relationship, two of my girls really went for each other when they first met and Kizzy got a nasty split lip and a big chunk of hair pulled out of her back, now they are best friends.
 
stacey2593 said:
Any help for me with my little girl ? Mine are in a chicken coop for 5 hens and got a run x
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hey stacey I could maybe offer you some help as i have a group of girls also :) How about you post this in a fresh thread then other piggy owners might have other usefull advice also :D People on here are so wonderful and friendly :D welcome to the forum :D x
 
Thanks people, I'll sort out the larger accommodation today for starters, and I'll have a read up of those links.

Your advice and help is really appreciated.
 
OK, have found a cage (well outdoor run that I can make a base for), that is 4 foot by 2.5, and 2 ft tall.

Would that be suitable size wise?

To my mind that is double the floor space of their current accommodation (3ft by 1.5'ish), and so I could put a central divide in if necessary.

As an update on the whole situation, I put in a temporary mesh divide last night, and it pretty much put an end to the posturing and rumbling.
They had an hours supervised "play" together, and both were guilty of annoying the other, but only once did the large one assert himself with a mounting on the head of the smaller one and a nip to the back.
That aside they kind of played tag.

They have also had plenty of handling, and are perfectly happy to be picked up.

Feel a bit sad for them being apart, as they have both tied to push the mesh aside and get to the other. But at least they can eat together and chat, and they are being peaceful.

Thanks for your views all.. it's a learning process. :))
 
That is the RSPCA requirement for two piggies, so it would be fine :)
 
PiggyPalace! said:
hey stacey I could maybe offer you some help as i have a group of girls also :) How about you post this in a fresh thread then other piggy owners might have other usefull advice also :D People on here are so wonderful and friendly :D welcome to the forum :D x
Click to expand...

Hi chick I have done but when I last checked there was only views not comments xx
 
OK, didn't go for the cage I found online, but instead have got a good deal on a Ferplast 140, which has slightly more floor space again - and means I don't have to track down any correx etc...
So all being well Pip and Patch will be in their new and larger home by the weekend.. and I will also get the large run finished so they can start cutting the lawn :)

Pip is currently at the Vets, just wanted the nip to the inside of his ear checked. But hopefully happier times ahead!
 
JohnnyH said:
OK, didn't go for the cage I found online, but instead have got a good deal on a Ferplast 140, which has slightly more floor space again - and means I don't have to track down any correx etc...
So all being well Pip and Patch will be in their new and larger home by the weekend.. and I will also get the large run finished so they can start cutting the lawn :)

Pip is currently at the Vets, just wanted the nip to the inside of his ear checked. But hopefully happier times ahead!
Click to expand...

That's a very good size and should reduce the problems. There are some excellent threads on here abt how to deal with boar behaviour. My advice is to take it slow. You cd ask your local rescue for help but gopefully things will settle dow. Try two of everything - hideys, bowls, water etc which should also help.
 
Katie Krafter said:
That's a very good size and should reduce the problems. There are some excellent threads on here abt how to deal with boar behaviour. My advice is to take it slow. You cd ask your local rescue for help but gopefully things will settle dow. Try two of everything - hideys, bowls, water etc which should also help.
Click to expand...

Yep, had Pip (the smaller one) checked out by the vet today, and all is good apart from the bites but they are healing fine.
Vet recommended a Vitamin C supplement (although they get frsh veg twice a day plus Guinea Pig nuggets and eating hay, so not sure if I need add more supplements?)
Vet also thought what we were doing to accommodate them was good, and I guess it may be a year or more (or never) before they are past adolescence and able to be together. (even though they both hopped straight into a house together during 'play time' I dont trust Patch to not bite... he didnt disappoint).

They do spend a lot of time looking at each other through the mesh, kinda sad, but at least they are both settled and safe.

I'll divide the run up (it is huge), and I'll make a second bedroom compartment in the other end of the hutch and divide that too.

Good fun, eh?! ;)
 
stacey2593 said:
Hi chick I have done but when I last checked there was only views not comments xx
Click to expand...
Thats strange repost a new thread in the behaviour section forum is what i would do :) Then you will get people who have dealt with the same issues :) seems odd no one has commented :S Well i am willing help so if you tell me basic info like how many piggies are involved ? What are the living quarters? How the fighting started and the nature of the fighting? When you repost your thread include all the info i have asked for in your initial post so peope have abit of background information :) sorry if it seems a faff reposting just then you will get advive directed to your exact situation :D hope all well :) xx
 
Hi all,

Just wanted to update on progress.

Pip and Patch will soon have their new Ferplast 140 with a divider - been dispatched so hopefully by the weekend :)

Also, with behaviour calmed, they had 40 mins supervised floor play time today, and although the smaller one Pip did get on Patch's nerves a bit, there was nno biting and they enjoyed the company :<>

So we will give them supervised play time regularly and just maybe in time they will be able to snuggle up together again. :)
 
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