Gurgly tummies...

[florna]

I've been sat with Sybil and Jovie this evening and I'm pretty certain I've heard their tummies gurgling. This is the first time I've heard this noise and it took me a while to be sure it wasn't my own! I'm not sure if it's related, but this month I've noticed that the consistency of their poo has been all over the place - one minute it's dark and healthy, then light and yellowish, then dry and crumbly. Some of it is smaller than usual, some of it is longer than usual. Mostly it's a mixture of different consistencies throughout the pen, which must mean one of them isn't digesting their food as well as the other, as they're both on exactly the same diet. They're on a regular diet of hay, pellets, spinach, pepper, celery and Readigrass so I don't know what the problem is. I feel like I adhere to the guidance regarding veg amounts. Whenever their poo looks too light, I take them off veg until it's rectified but the problem keeps recurring this month. I don't know if it's something to do with the hot weather here in the UK. I know dry, crumbly poo means dehydration but they just won't drink any more liquid - I have 2 bottles and a dish on the go! I've been trying to manage the poo situation by tweaking their diet day to day, but now I've heard loud tummy grumbles I'm concerned. Any advice, please?

 

[florna]

To add: I have noticed lately that they have been leaving more veg than usual. Veg-wise, they tend to get a generous handful of spinach to share, half a stick of celery each and quarter-half a red pepper. That's the absolute maximum I give them. Sometimes it's just two portions. But I've noticed e.g. if I've broken the celery sticks up into 4 quarters, 2 have been left overnight whereas they usually gobble their veg up, if not straight away, definitely the same day. Does this mean they're off their food? They're aaaaaalways munching hay, wheeking for food and happy to accept biscuits, so I thought as long as they're eating *something* they're OK. Apologies for the tedious detail. I'm still in my first 6mo-1yr of pig ownership!

 

[Princess Dustmop]

Eating something and eating enough aren't necessarily the same. A guinea pig could be eating but not eating as much and thus losing weight. If your piggies are losing weight, you need to consult a veterinarian to try and find the cause, and you may need to provide supplementary nutrition via syringe feeding to ensure that they don't develop stasis or lose any more weight.

The erratic poos would imply something is going on. Small and dry could be an indicator of dehydration, but a healthy piggy will drink when thirsty if water is available, just like a person would ... If the poos return to normal off veggies and then go right back, 1) how much time are these changes taking, as there can be a bit of a delay from what was eaten to what's left behind, 2) is it always a red bell pepper? Or are you maybe feeding yellow peppers prior to the yellow poos? 3) have you tried any different selections of veggies? It could be that one of the veggies you're feeding isn't agreeing perfectly ...

How hot is the environment they're in? Are they indoors or outdoors? If their space is warmer than usual, are you giving them somewhere to cool off? Many people add wrapped up frozen water bottles and such in case the piggies get hot.

Is it just the celery that's being left behind? If so, it may be that celery is just less desirable than it used to be. Have you tried offering them something else instead? Of course, introduce new foods slowly to allow their systems to adjust.

Spinach is relatively high in calcium, so it's not really the best choice for daily feeding. Do you have access to a lettuce like romaine? Feeding too much calcium increases the risk of bladder sludge or bladder stones.

 

[Piggies&buns]

You should always be able to hear some gentle gut noises from them. A silent gut is deadly and requires urgent vet care, particularly noisy and you would also want to see a vet.

Strange or soft poops can point to a gut disturbance. Taking off veg and increasing hay consumption is the normal course of action for a minor upset to get things back on track. If things don’t improve or if the problem reoccurs, then you need to have them seen by a vet.

Please do review their diet as you are currently feeding items which are not suitable for daily use and that are too rich.
The diet guide I’ve added below gives further detail, including a sample plate of amounts and safe daily veggies.

Spinach is not suitable to be fed daily as its too high in calcium (as above too much calcium can cause bladder problems). If you are going to give spinach it should only be just a couple of leaves per pig and only given once a week - more as a treat. The same goes for all other high calcium veg - they should not be given more than once a week and only given in small amounts. So if you’re going to give a particular high calcium veg one week, then don’t give any other type of high calcium veg that week. High calcium veg include kale, parsley, spinach.

Readigrass is also not suitable for regular use as it is too rich. One small pinch sprinkled in hay, very occasionally as a forage treat is fine.
While it is only a dried grass, the calcium remains the same but with no water left in the grass the calcium amount is concentrated. This combined with the fact you give a lot of spinach daily (and their daily pellets) means they are probably exceeding their calcium needs.
Fresh, dog pee free, grass can be given daily, if is their natural food. However, if they aren’t used to it, then it needs to be built up into the diet slowly (and this is every spring time, don’t just suddenly start giving lots of grass after a winter off grass) so not to cause tummy upsets.

Safe daily veggies are lettuce (any lettuce except iceberg), cucumber, coriander and a slice of bell pepper. A green bean or piece or celery can be added if they like them. Other veg items can be given in moderation and things like fruit, root veg, or baby corn either not given at all or only very occasionally.
One tablespoon of pellets per pig per day only and filtered drinking water. Most calcium comes into the diet via pellets and tap water to ensuring you limit pellets and filter water is important, particularly in a hard water country like the UK, (secondary, keeping all high calcium veg limited) to ensure they aren’t getting too much calcium.

What do you mean by they’re accepting ‘biscuits’?

Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
Feeding Grass And Preparing Your Piggies For Lawn Time
Edible And Forbidden Veg And Fruit List With Vitamin C Grading

How have your piggies weight checks been?

Hay and grass is the most important part of their diet, and needs to be 80% of what they eat in a day.
The only way to ensure they are eating enough is through the routine weekly weight checks. You then switch to daily weight checks where there are health concerns.
Hay intake is often the first thing to be dropped/reduced when there is a health problem, and this is why the weight checks are important - you can’t judge hay intake by eye, they can appear to be nibbling at it, but it doesn’t mean they are eating anywhere enough - you would see weight loss.
Veg and pellets are supplementary and jointly should only make around 20% of the daily food intake - they simply dont make up enough of the diet to contribute meaningfully to enough food each day, they won’t maintain their weight.
So as you can see, its not a case of ‘as long as they’re eating something’. If their hay intake reduces but they still seem to be eating veg and pellets, then it can mean theyve lost up to 80% of their daily food intake, there is a problem somewhere and that will quickly turn into an emergency situation if not dealt with. An owner would need to step in with emergency measures (syringe feeding to stop weight loss) and vet checks as soon as there is 50g weight loss

Not eating just one type of veg would mostly suggest they’ve just gone off that type.


The guide below explains more about weight.

Weight - Monitoring and Management

The amount a piggy will drink varies widely and the need to drink comes first, piggies wont deliberately dehydrate themselves. Providing cool fresh water and refilling up regularly in hot weather is important. If they get enough water from their diet, then their need to drink from the bottle will not be as great.
This is our guide about drinking.

All About Drinking And Bottles

These are our guides relating to the heat. It gives various methods on how to keep the room cool and ensure piggies don’t overheat.
Outdoor piggies should be brought indoors once their hutch gets towards 25 degrees (and bearing in mind a hutch can be hotter inside than the general outside temperature)

Hot Weather Management, Heat Strokes and Fly Strike
Hot weather warning for the UK - plan now to keep your piggies safe!

 

[Free Ranger]

If there are two living together are you sure it's both of them? Or could you have one upset tum and one perfectly fine.
I have 3 - all given the same diet - or should I say all offered the same diet! Recently a glut of spring grass caused a nerve-wracking few days of bloat for my porky girl but the other 2 were right as ninepence. I don't routinely hear gurgling so loud I think it's me though!

See if you can tell if it's one or both and start weighing to see if they are losing or maintaining weight - or if just one is losing etc. It's a very useful method of checking for slow loss or small losses each day which you might otherwise not have noticed.

Cucumber is brilliant - it's also very hydrating. Mine get a thumb-thick chunk each day (some morning and some evening) and they've never gone off it. Other veg they have phases on/off but I tend to do a rotation anyway. And they d have different tastes - my fat girl does prefer sweeter treats like a carrot slice or red/yellow pepper while my piggy ninja literally pulls a face if offered carrot and only really like more sour green peppers!

If you are offering the sort of pet-shop treats that have sugar in to bind them together you might be able to solve it right there as piggy guts are not really designed for that sort of thing!

 

[florna]

Thank you all so much for your help. I was continuing their previous diet before they came to me by giving them handfuls of spinach and didn't realise this wasn't good for them. Since receiving responses, I gave them hay only until their poo returned to a normal, dark oval shape and introduced bits of veg (Romaine lettuce and red pepper only) here and there whilst monitoring the affect on their tummies. We seem to be in a good place now! Most of their poo looks a normal colour and consistency, but the odd few are mishapen - is this normal? My other concern is that they just will not drink any more than a few sips throughout the day, despite having 2 water bottles to choose from and a dish. So, I have been giving them small amounts of cucumber (max 1 thin slice each and not even daily) in an effort to get some liquid in them! We're doing our best to keep them cool (blinds down, frozen bottles in socks, windows open only when there's a cool breeze) and I spray their fur and cage with fly strike spray 1x per week (I check their bums daily too - the thought of it terrifies me tbh), but it's concerning me that they're still not really drinking. Also, I think they're less active, even though they've always seemed to spend the day time resting. Weirdly, although they've always had a decent sized cage (I'm aware of the guidelines), we recently build them a 3ft x 5ft cage and they seem to jump and scurry around even less than they used to with less space, which is a bit sad to see . They do still wheek and rush over to the fence for food though and they're definitely eating. Can anyone offer any insight? I did have them booked in at the vet for a general check over since I realised they've been on a diet too high in calcium for most of their lives (feel so guilty about this), but my whole household including me now has Covid so having to hold off. For the person who asked - sorry (ha!) by 'biscuits' I mean those crunchy pig pellets by Science Selective. Everything they eat is plain - no added flavours, sugars or other crap.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Regarding the drinking, they will only drink as much as they need. If they are getting a lot of veg, then they will not feel the need to drink from the bottle because they will be getting lots of fluid from their veg, you also don’t need to overfeed veg in hot weather.
The amount they drink varies widely from piggy to piggy in any event. They will not dehydrate themselves.

It’s absolutely fine to give them cucumber daily - it’s a safe daily veg, but also provides a nice amount of fluid. Mine get one slice per day but in this heat they are getting two slices a day (one in the morning and one in the evening) to further help with rehydration.

The flystrike spray - there is no need to use this, nor is it recommended. Preventing the issue by keeping their cage clean, checking their bottoms frequently, using fly nets if possible. Hygiene is the best course of prevention here rather than unnecessary sprays.
Using the spray isn’t good for the piggies in any event but I can’t imagine just once a week is doing anything anyway.
Ive kept small animals for 35 years and not used once a product like this.

Piggies like lots of cover so if their cage is too open then that may scare them. Make sure you have lots of two exit hides in the cage but you can also cover part of it with a light sheet to provide a sheltered area. This may help them feel more secure

Hot Weather Management, Heat Strokes and Fly Strike
Fly Strike

 

[florna]

Oh my godddd, it amazes me how many products out there are recommended for them that actually aren't safe! I don't understand why the information isn't consistent? E.g. why is fly strike spray available if it's detrimental? SO frustrating for new owners.

 

[florna]

Oh my godddd, it amazes me how many products out there are recommended for them that actually aren't safe! I don't understand why the information isn't consistent? E.g. why i

Also, regarding the cucumber, other sources say it's too watery for them and can give them diarrhea (which I've experienced with them). It's so difficult to know what to do, especially when you lack first-hand experience. I will keep monitoring them closely. Thank you for your guidance.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Oh my godddd, it amazes me how many products out there are recommended for them that actually aren't safe! I don't understand why the information isn't consistent? E.g. why is fly strike spray available if it's detrimental? SO frustrating for new owners.

No it’s not that it’s not safe (although you don’t want piggies inhaling any sprays) it’s that it’s not recommended and not necessary. Lots of things which are for sale are just to get you to part with your money, not because they are needed.

Also, regarding the cucumber, other sources say it's too watery for them and can give them diarrhea (which I've experienced with them). It's so difficult to know what to do, especially when you lack first-hand experience. I will keep monitoring them closely. Thank you for your guidance.

A slice of cucumber is safe daily but like any veg it’s not always going to agree with every piggy. If their tummies are adjusted to something, then it’s much less likely to cause any problems.
You’ve got to find what works for yours and if they are sensitive tummy piggies and struggle with certain veggies, then you’ve got to be more careful. You’d not said previously on this post that they have had actual liquid diarrhoea before.

 

[florna]

No, to clarify, they haven't had full blown diarrhea but it made their poo very soft and was smeared across the cage. Easily corrected with a few days of hay-only. They seem to be doing OK with it now. It's a shame the info out there is so conflicting. Thanks again, will keep a close eye.

 

[Piggies&buns]

No, to clarify, they haven't had full blown diarrhea but it made their poo very soft and was smeared across the cage. Easily corrected with a few days of hay-only. They seem to be doing OK with it now. It's a shame the info out there is so conflicting. Thanks again, will keep a close eye.

Soft poops is usually caused by an overgrowth of the wrong kind of gut bacteria and as you know, getting the diet back to high fibre will usually help that easily. Making sure to reintroduce veg slowly but they can have lettuce, coriander, cucumber and pepper daily.

 

[Free Ranger]

Don't worry too much about the previous diet if they're peeing OK now. The pee typically can look a bit 'milky' sometimes but if it's gritty it can cause them discomfort. It sounds like by excluding the veg for a short time your poops are much better which is a good sign that you've at least identified the cause. You might just have 2 girls with sensitive tums that you're just going to have to keep an eye on for a while. Are their weights pretty consistent?

Just checking (as you mentioned the flystrike spray) are they indoor or outdoor piggies? And how clean are their bottoms normally? I mean, I know you've had some squishy poop issues but do they look dirty or wet at the back end on a regular basis?

I feel for you with the covid. I'm on day 3 but no-one else here has had it. I'm masking in the house but having to change it pretty regularly as keep coughing and spluttering... it's horrible in here! By the time I'm released back into the world I'll have a chin full of spots