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twiams

twiams

Adult Guinea Pig
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I know this is a topic fought over by many and i really understand how we should put rescue piggies first BUT it's just a thought that maybe we could have sticky thread or something for EMERGENCY links, this is the sort of piggies in very bad conditions that need to get out of the situation so basically a Piggy Bank sticky thread ?

I know rescues put alot of work into rehoming there piggies, but surely we should put the welfare of all those other piggies in bad conditions first and at least the piggies in the rescue have somewhere safe and warm... ?

I've seen a few where people have found piggies in tiny little hamster cages and surely if someone can help they should? I understand piggy bank is in place, but is they're no way we could make just one page for people who do find something alarming ? at least that way more people could see it? as some people like myself aren't part of the piggy bank but could offer help all the same.

Just an idea...
 
well i will put my name to that as being a good idea, though i am a newbie here still. A piggy in need is still in need no matter where he is suffering
 
I think one of the issues is that all of the pigs in rescue have been, at one point in their lives, those pigs on gumtree (or in equivalent conditions) and are effectively in a holding pen before being moved on.
- By the way, that's not a dig at rescues, I know you love, care for and offer only the very best treatment for the pigs all day and night, it's just only a temporary home for them, until somewhere else for them can be found.

I accept that they're now safe and being well cared for with vet treatment etc, but in order for the very best treatment for the new gumtree pigs, the movement of previous pigs needs to be completed with them going to a final loving home. If more people chose the rescue pigs, the gumtree ones could be taken on very swiftly, but currently, the mentality is to 'save' the poorly treated one, when in reality, the rescue could probably do the best job for them. The people that run them are so knowledgeable and know exactly what to look out for in the pigs and how to treat / dose with various medications.

But the rescues can only continue to run as long as the pigs move both in AND out in relatively quick succession.

Quite a lot of the gumtree pigs will be in bad health or possibly pregnant, at which point, the babies will likely end up in rescue if the owners take them on thinking they are doing good only to find mummypig has a litter of boys, a bad pregnancy that experienced members could have dealt with much better etc.

I know I sound like a killjoy etc, I really do see the issues on both sides - it is very difficult to not get sucked in by an advert for a poorly kept animal and to try and feel you're saving it and taking it for a better life. But I think that to be honest, the rescues are probably the best people to rehabilitate these pigs and move them on to their new loving homes, which is something that can't be done if they're overcrowded already.


I don't want to start an argument or anything, I just hope people can see both sides here, I can see EXACTLY where this thread is coming from and the very good intentions of it.. but I just thought I should add my thoughts :)

:red
 
Good idea but what is it you are thinking of? A piggy grape vine for those in need?
 
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Piggy Bank rescues are largely self funded, home based rescues. These rescues cannot keep taking in every Tom Dick and Harry of a pig - they are full to bursting and have waiting lists of pigs waiting to go into the rescues, whilst still dealing with the most urgent of cases as emergencies, pushing them over capacity - they do not need to go searching for pigs to add to their numbers.

It's all very well and good suggesting the Piggy Bank as a solution to everypigs problems, but the PB approved rescues do not have the space, time, capacity or funds to do this.

Until more people adopt from rescues (genuine rescues like those in the PB; not P@H adoption centres or breeders masquerading as rescues), there's just not the turnover, resulting in the space, to do this kind of thing.
 
Amanda1801 said:
Piggy Bank rescues are largely self funded, home based rescues. These rescues cannot keep taking in every Tom Dick and Harry of a pig - they are full to bursting and have waiting lists of pigs waiting to go into the rescues, whilst still dealing with the most urgent of cases as emergencies, pushing them over capacity - they do not need to go searching for pigs to add to their numbers.

It's all very well and good suggesting the Piggy Bank as a solution to everypigs problems, but the PB approved rescues do not have the space, time, capacity or funds to do this.

Until more people adopt from rescues (genuine rescues like those in the PB; not P@H adoption centres or breeders masquerading as rescues), there's just not the turnover, resulting in the space, to do this kind of thing.
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Well I'm not suggesting every Tom Dick and Harry i'm suggesting emergencies, that otherwise aren't seen due to the inability to see gumtree posts and not having the time to search through them,

I'm not suggesting the piggy bank as a solution i'm suggesting that those involved in the piggy bank but maybe aren't able to get actively involved due to lack of transport or something, if they have that extra space to take on a pig and find a home themselves, i know not everyone can but i did, i took on a gumtree case, of four boys, separated them and found them two loving homes myself.

I really find it ridiculous when people class pets at home rescues as not genuine... it's an adoption. Rescuing is taking something/someone from a bad situation, i don't see how it's not the same but a bigger scale, but i'm sure the fact i stepped foot in a pet shop damns me to being anti-rescue ! :x
 
For what it's worth, I feel that every piggy should have a safe place, BUT rescues are there purely as a 'stop gap' until a suitable, loving home can be found.

They need people to rehome those already treated and back to full health so that they can help the next piggy/ies in need.

I can see that by 'rescuing' a pig from what is a terrible situation may seem like the 'right thing to do' but rescues are so much more than this. They spend hundreds of pounds and hundreds of hours ensuring that the piggies in their care are given the very best treatment, which some individuals may be unable to offer or understand.

It is extremely taxing, mentally and physically and rescues receive very little credit for their hard word and dedication. All too often these piggies are forgotton because 'they have a safe place.'

Don't want to get into a debate, just thought I'd share my views.
 
twiams said:
Well I'm not suggesting every Tom Dick and Harry i'm suggesting emergencies, that otherwise aren't seen due to the inability to see gumtree posts and not having the time to search through them
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The PB is happy to, and does deal with those that are deemed to be emergency cases that are advertised on rehoming sites. Casing point: http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=97835

twiams said:
I'm not suggesting the piggy bank as a solution i'm suggesting that those involved in the piggy bank but maybe aren't able to get actively involved due to lack of transport or something, if they have that extra space to take on a pig and find a home themselves, i know not everyone can but i did, i took on a gumtree case, of four boys, separated them and found them two loving homes myself.
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Taking in pigs and finding homes as an individual is a minefield. Vets bills, the risk of the spread of disease to ones own animals etc. and also what happens afterwards? Rehoming from rescues involves signing a contract which is legally binding, stating that if you cannot keep the animal that you have rehomed, you must return it to the rescue. If I ever had to rehome my pigs, Jeff and Cameo, my bonded pair, would have to be split; Cameo would have to go back to the rescue in mid Wales, and Jeff to the RSPCA. I'd need the authority from the rescues involved to rehome them as a pair, or I'm breaking a legally binding contract.

If an individual takes a pig from gumtree, rehabilitates it, rehomes it, and the new owner cannot keep it in a week/month/year/however longs time, where is it going to end up without rescue back up? Back on gumtree! It's a viscous cycle.

twiams said:
I really find it ridiculous when people class pets at home rescues as not genuine... it's an adoption. Rescuing is taking something/someone from a bad situation, i don't see how it's not the same but a bigger scale, but i'm sure the fact i stepped foot in a pet shop damns me to being anti-rescue ! :x
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Have you ever seen P@H take in sick or neglected animals for rehabilitation and rehoming? They just take their animals from the selling pens to the adoption centre, when the rest of their stock is sold and theres an odd one or two left, before the next shipment of baby pigs/rabbits/whatevers arrive. That, IMO, is no different from buying directly from the store.

You can shop in pet shops and still be pro rescue, it's up to you and your own morals/views etc. to decide what you want to do. I went into P@H today and bought some things. I don't see any pro-rescuers smiting me to hell for all eternity.
 
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Well i'm sure no matter what i say your always going to have your own views, which i doubt we'll ever agree on. Because i'm gonna be straight with you i personally don't appreciate you existence.

I didn't create this to make an argument, it's was a suggestion. And as this is a suggestions section i thought it would be fine to post one. Fine you don't agree with it, please just say 'i personally don't think this is a good idea' there is no need to analyse every word i've typed and add your point because i really don't give 2 flying guinea pigs about what you have to say.

I'm tired of you belittling me in almost every post i make where my suggestion doesn't suit you. Please focus on your own morals not mine.

Over and Out.
 
The people actively involved in the Piggy Bank have signed up to a code of ethics and behaviour that puts/assists the welfare and care of guinea pigs by approved rescues that adhere to certain minimum standards as a priority.

No one disputes that All types of piggies need rehoming - however priority at the moment is given to those that have been
a) dumped in the wild - or
b) their owner has become ill and cannot look after them properly or
c) are negelcted and living in appalling conditions

i.e. NOT because their owner is trying to make a few quid by breeding or because P@H want to offload unsold stock and neither have to been able to sell the babies.

The pigs that ARe rescued are properly sexed, treated for any ailments and moved to a dedicated rescue with specific medical experience if needed. They are rehomed healthy with back-up for life. All of this is financed through the rescues (and piggy bank members in terms of fuel/time etc) pockets.

The Piggy Bank was started to promote rehoming of piggies already in Rescues in order to create space so that other "in extremis" pigs including those "emergencies" on preloved etc could be heped.

BUT - Rescues currently do NOT have the space or resources to include these types of ads especially given the increasing numbers - courtesy of (back-yard) breeders - who post on this type of media wanting to make a few quid.

This means that until there is a step-change in philosophy from the general public about rehoming from Rescues, we will be treading water.

Unfortunately the rescues are STILL not being supported enough in their rehoming efforts - indeed there appears to be a "backlash" group on this particular forum intent on underming the Piggy Bank Rescue philosophy and diverting people from rehoming from Rescues - despite the fact that posts advertising other piggies on preloved etc are not permitted AT PRESENT.

So to the clearly indentifiable group of members ("armchair warriors") on here that has emerged over recent months that wish to promote Pets at home adoption, pre-loved etc as "rescue" - and have never offered to fund someone's petrol costs to "rescue" one of the guineas whose plight you have highlighted on this forum.....think on this.....

If you all devoted your efforts and finances to helping Piggy Bank (and it's members) as a nationwide resource to rehome the current pigs in Approved Rescues and therefore assist those that would be accepted as being in most need - you will be helping all of us to ultimately get what we are ALL aiming for: A situation where any pigs (be they dumped, surrendered, advertised in P@H or on Preloved etc) to finally have access to a space in a decent rescue that adheres to minimum standards.
 
twiams said:
Well i'm sure no matter what i say your always going to have your own views, which i doubt we'll ever agree on. Because i'm gonna be straight with you i personally don't appreciate you existence.

I didn't create this to make an argument, it's was a suggestion. And as this is a suggestions section i thought it would be fine to post one. Fine you don't agree with it, please just say 'i personally don't think this is a good idea' there is no need to analyse every word i've typed and add your point because i really don't give 2 flying guinea pigs about what you have to say.

I'm tired of you belittling me in almost every post i make where my suggestion doesn't suit you. Please focus on your own morals not mine.

Over and Out.
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You "don't appreciate my existence"? rolleyes

No one is arguing? Is this not just a discussion on the pros and cons of an idea?

I'm quite happy with my morals; I'm quite proud of the 2000+ miles I've clocked up on my little car in the past 12 months for the soul purpose of guinea pig rescue and welfare, and the £100's I've given to this cause over the past 18 months or so. But it's ok. You sit there and lecture me on my morals. Doesn't bother me!
 
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Amanda1801 said:
I'm quite happy with my morals; I'm quite proud of the 2000+ miles I've clocked up on my little car in the past 12 months for the soul purpose of guinea pig rescue and welfare, and the £100's I've given to this cause over the past 18 months or so. But it's ok. You sit there and lecture me on my morals. Doesn't bother me!
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I'm sure your poop glitters and the sun shines out of your bum.
 
This is a rescue friendly forum and as such it's purpose is to promote those pigs sat in rescues across the country - some of whom haven't even been given a second look while others have been waiting months for somewhere to call home.

The reason the allowance of threads relating to gumtree/freeads/preloved was removed was because those pigs (who's owners wanted nothing more than to make a quick buck) were being highlighted as wanting homes and un-suspecting people were rushing to their aid not knowing what problems lay ahead for them - this took all of the focus away from the rescue pigs who had gone through their rehabilitation and were looking for a home.

If there was a dedicated thread made for the sole purpose of highliting freeads piggies, this would create all sorts of problems not only for the rescues (already full to bursting) but for all those wanting to 'do some good' - rushing out to collect those poor piggies that could be carrying a multitude of illnesses!

Can you imagine the posts? people sitting at their computers dedicating all of their day scouring the freeads and posting their findings? the very ethics of this forum would be swamped with gumtree piggies! The main focus wouldn't be on the rescue piggies screaming out for a home - but for those who's owners only care about making money or the backyard breeder getting rid of old stock.

I for one would quite happily leave this forum behind if that were the focus - i love reading the happy endings for the rescue pigs - wishing i could buy a bigger home so i could give them all the loving home they so deserve.....

let's keep the forum the way it is - there are measures/procedures already in place for those in urgent need of help...let's help those already pleading in the rescue and rehoming section for a forever home?

Perhaps those who feel strongly enough about the gumtree/freeads/preloved piggies could think about setting up a dedicated site to help those pigs - or indeed write as many emails and report as many posts as you can to the mods of such sites that allow the selling of livestock!! You never know - if enough emails are received and enough people complain they may rethink their site rules on the selling of animals....
 
twiams said:
I'm sure your poop glitters and the sun shines out of your bum.
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FYI it actually looks like this

il_fullxfull.316400445.jpg
 
twiams said:
I'm sure your poop glitters and the sun shines out of your bum.
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I very very rarely "call people out" as I believe everyone on this forum is entitled to have their opinion/discussions.

However, regardless of what events/comments led up to it, i really do feel this particular comment was uncalled for and doesn;t put you or your case in a good light.

x
 
Tell me Amanda - exactly what search term did you use in google to get that picture? ?/?/

It's very....errrrm... shiney!!

Back to the original topic - personal comments/attacks are uncalled for....Just because someone has a different opinion to the OP doesn't make them wrong and certainly doesn't warrant harsh comments....
 
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I think Amanda this too is enough.

Step away both of you pelase - this IS a child-friendly forum and they may not be up tonight - but they will see these posts tomorrow.

x
 
For those that wish to help the animals on these types of ads, gumtree/preloved/FB selling pages, there is already a group dedicated towards them. If you want to be able to help but can not physically, financially or emotionally cope with helping rescue directly, this is something you can do without getting out of your armchair.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/298629216869816/

The files section of the group has email templates that can be adapted and sent out to the poster/advertiser on a safer way to rehome their animals, preferably via rescue, but also in terms of homechecks etc.

In regards of forum members/piggy bank members being encouraged to 'help' take these animals on - I strongly advise against it.

Very few non-rescues have the wide ranging experience to deal with or recognise the array of problems that come with many of these pigs, the cost of emergency treatment, time to syringe feed day and night and still function to run a house/go to work (those with babies will understand how exhausting night feeds are), adequate quarantine facilities to protect the other animals/children of the household, space to house the potential babies (pregnancy watch on all females taken on is 10 weeks), be able to homecheck, give lifelong knowledgeable back-up, the experience to successfully bond single pigs, to have space to house those dumped on your doorstep once word gets out that you take on pigs, strangers in your home to view the animals, less than honest people wanting the animals for something other than a pet.

If only getting these pigs just involved nice people, healthy pigs and cuddling and more than enough homes to go around then yes I'd support whole heartedly everyone to help and beg you all to scour the adverts - the reality is very different. Well intentioned but naive suggestions such as this only serve to put more pressure on those already doing all they can. Rescue is not a job, it is our lives, unpaid,voluntary and our passion - getting bashed for doing all that we can but not enough only serves to push us away from this forum - the number of rescues that feel welcome here is getting less and less. Being part of this forum is voluntary - we choose to post in order to help more pigs, we could choose to help them elsewhere.

There have been several threads on this subject in the past on the perils of non-rescues taking on these pigs (and believe me we do take them on, in great numbers). Perhaps reading through them and having some maturity over the reality of what is involved with these animals will put it in perspective.

http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=76550

http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=61819
 
thanks for that. You're right of course. As i am still new to the forum, i am still confused about a couple of things. I hope someone can answer without as i don.t intend to spark an argument. One is: why does the forum mainly seem to promote piggy bank rescues? is the piggy bank rescue a specially accredited rescue? I'm not sure of the history of the forum either - was it originally set up by piggybank members to promote piggybank rescues? These questions bring me to my next main question which is: where are the recommended rescues in scotland and where should us scottish members go to get our rescue piggies please? Many thanks to anyone who can put me in the picture. Ta
 
Oh dear:( and i had such a lovely with day with Wiebke yesterday! to be honest i can see both sides of the 'debate' here but coming back to read this thread and some of the things said just makes me feel very, very sad:(:(
 
The Piggy Bank UK is a network of approved Guinea Pig Rescues, and volunteers that wish to assist the Piggy Bank UK Rescues with hands on help during rescue and rehoming situations; providing transport assistance, temporary accommodation when needed and general rescue support.

The core of the Piggy Bank UK ethos is not to support breeding/showing or promote/support petshop/non-rescue rehoming, and to ensure the 5 Freedoms as set out under the AWA 2006 are met or exceeded. These pro-rescue ethics extend to the members own actions, to promote adoption from Approved Rescues and to help raise rescue awareness in as many areas as possible. This enables the Piggy Bank UK Rescues to rescue and rehome larger numbers of guinea pigs more effectively each year. The Piggy Bank UK members expect high standards from the Rescues they support, and within their own membership. All members must be 18 yrs+.


It became apparent that a network was needed to get vulnerable pigs into rescue care, as when a call for help went out on the forum it depended on local members seeing the post and being able to help. Initially the PB was a database of contact numbers of forum members should a rescue situation occur, it has since grown organically to become a respected force within the rescue community.

As there is no regulations in place to ensure that rescues have good standards, and the animals placed in their care are treated with dignity and ethics, the Piggy Bank rescues set the standards that we hoped all rescues would aspire too - in order to qualify to be a PB approved rescue several key points need to be met and adhered to, specifically under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and Guinea Pig Welfare standards.

The volunteer members also follow the same ethos they expect from the rescues they support.

All this led to the Piggy Bank UK being formed. The PB is not based on this forum, though many of it's members are also members of TGPF, many are members of other forums or have come to the PB via it's presence on facebook or through it's member rescues/volunteers.

All rescues approved by the Piggy Bank UK can be recommended with confidence that the rescue is of the highest standards, as yet there are no approved rescues in Scotland or N. Ireland and only one in Wales. Not all rescues invited to apply respond, we can only approve those willing to be assessed.

I hope this give a bit more insight to the Piggy Bank UK.
https://www.facebook.com/piggybank.gpr

Suzy x
 
Just because someone isn't actively part of the piggy bank rescue group doesn't mean they just 'sit in there arm chair' doing nothing. I was removed from the piggy bank but i physically help my local rescue i donate and sponsor piggies i don't just sit on my arse trying to 'convert' TGPF population. !
 
Have a wee look at the posts I've liked above. We thrashed the idea of banning free ad posts out over a good year or so for the reasons above. I have taken in pigs from free ads before and I can tell you that the money, experience and effort involved in rehabilitating some of them is way beyond many of the members here. While I'm sure people have great hearts and all the goodwill in the world, DIY rescuing isn't something to be taken lightly.

And any more personal insults like the one above will result in forum infractions, I would expect a person who has been a member here over a year to know the rules and not resort to childish insults.

Enough said on this one methinkies.
 
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