Guinea Pigs..definitely Not As Cute As They Look Or Sound?!

[PiggyOinkOink]

When I went to the vet recently, she told me to keep my recently recovered piggy separate from any others/his cage mate because they pick on the weaker ones and 'basically, that's what they are like', in her own words. From my own experience, there are at least two (the most dominant) that noticeably pick on the others for no reason and it is very difficult to put other piggies in their cage so they can play around. In one's case, Rebecca, I can only put her daughter (well she is her cage mate) and her bf, any other she will attack. When I first got them all (5 brothers/sisters), Rebecca used to bully and attack her own sister (Little Mrs - runt of the litter) and actually used to bite her on the nose and make her bleed. I only realised this as Little Mrs had something stuck on her nose when I got her, probably something from birth that the mother did not clean, and when it came off with some cream, she was left with a scab and I would see it was healing but another time it was bleeding fresh again. After a few times I realised what was happening!

In another case, a young (baby) cage mate, Billy, of the most dominant male, Snoopy, was fine for weeks in the same cage with 2 other younger babies (4 boars in 1 cage), but then all of a sudden Snoopy started picking on Billy and I had to separate them. The thing was that Billy is ever so shy and jumpy of everything and he would never bite or attack you but be the 1st one to run. He is ever so sweet but I imagine to them all this makes him the wimp of the bunch. I tried to introduce Snoopy and him about 2 weeks later because I needed 1 cage for my sick piggy and didn't have enough cages for them all. This time, I heard them bickering and arguing initially then I heard chattering..I left them a while then eventually had a look when there was a big scuffle and picked up Snoopy thinking there was some hay in his mouth...But it dawned on me that HE HAD JUST RIPPED OUT SOME OF BILLY'S HAIR! I immediately took Billy out and put him in his own cage and he was so much happier.

Another thing I remember is when I bought a cage from someone who had piggies for many years, she told me that after seeing how they behave and treat each other, it had given her an insight on humanity and how she had lost hope in it too, since if piggies are acting like that instinctively, then there was no hope for us as humans the way we act!

What do other's think of this? I have never owned any other animal before so don't know how they are but I do know that even dolphins kill and rape for fun and kicks or just for no apparent reason at all. Has anyone's views on humanity changed as a result of owning piggies/animals, since we are also just animals following instincts at the basic level?

...As I have been writing this, I am in the middle of cleaning cages and Rebecca has been attacking her daughter for no reason (I put them temporarily in a small cardboard box) so I have had to put her alone in the carry case!

 

[Flutterby]

I dont personally judge human behaviour by animal behaviour. We as humans have a greater intelligent (most of us) and a broader emotional range. We know right from wrong and have the ability to feel compassion and empathy. Our emotional spectrum is that much greater than an animal. In some ways it would probably be a lot simpler in this world if we did live by animal rules. It's a touchy subject but i have to say my guinea's dont bully eachother at all. They live harmoniously, unlike a lot of humans. The human race has many who let it down, but many who give it hope. I don't think we can call an animal evil for bullying or attacking or 'raping' because it is instinct and survival of the fittest. They do things for a reason unlike a lot of humans who do things out of spite, hate and every other negative emotion.

 

[worried val of york]

Like @Flutterby I wouldn't compare animal behaviour to human behaviour. We are so called civilised humans who have evolved over thousands of years to the present stage. We can make informed decisions. Animals have their basic instincts of territory food and breeding at their forefront. Some of these instincts are still strongly inherent in the human nature. Hence the frequent fall outs with neighbours and nations against nations protecting what they believe are their rights. Not all humans resort to violence to resort disputes. It can depend on the circumstances some people can use diplomacy to resolve issues. But I can never see a group of guinea pigs getting round a table or video link to discuss who should have the use of the hidey. But I really would like to be there if it ever did happen!

 

[Flutterby]

Haha sorry the image of piggies around a table sorting things out made me giggle!

 

[Wiebke]

Guinea pigs operate very strictly on a hierarchical society. They identify themselves primarily as belonging to a specific group. You have to take that into account at all times.

Piggies are no less sensitive than us, and they are emotionally very supportive of their group members, but they operate on very different rules when it comes to interaction, especially with piggies that are not part of an established group or at times when the hierarchy is questioned.

Three or four young boars will inevitably get into trouble as soon as they hit the teenage hormones and dominance issues; they are the most instable of all possible boar combinations. Boars work either out as a big herd with LOTS of space (and then expect to need to separate the odd trouble maker or bullied bottom boar) or in pairs. Trios only work when the boars can choose each other and there is ideally at least two laid back adults in the mix. Quartets that are stable even for a few weeks or months are VERY much the exception.

Personally, I strongly wonder whether your Little Miss had some fungal on her nose. Dominant piggies nip and just let the underpiggy feel their teeth, but they do NOT bite at random. Most (rare) bites by sows of mine have happened during bonding when a chased underpiggy was blocked and could not get out of the way fast enough; they were not intended as a full bite. The biting sows were also pretty stressed out/fear-agressive at the time. the bites were aimed at the lips (mostly just grazes) and not to the nose.
The underpiggy will squeal loudly in submission and not in pain as it is usually mistakenly interpreted. The squealing is usually quite effective as a deterrant. Some, especially older, sows can very dominant and rather choosy about who they tolerate in their group (usually only very submissive or young piggies they can easily dominate).

Guinea pigs have a very differentiated and complex social life (much more than you would expect), but it is clearly geared towards survival and not towards being a cute human's pet.

You may find these threads here helpful in understanding guinea pig society and behaviour:
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/biological-facts-and-guinea-pig-society.109062/
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/dominance-behaviours-in-guinea-pigs.28949/

 

[PiggyOinkOink]

Yes perhaps it was fungal as it was a hardish block stuck to above her nose but once it came off with some cream (can't remember what I used, probably sudocrem) it never came back but there was a patch left with no hair and a healing scab (which Rebecca kept biting at lol). When Rebecca was introduced to Benji (her now soulmate/bf) she became even more aggressive towards Little Mrs, especially as Benji would run after her to try to hump her, so I took that as jealousy. I am hoping when I finally put Benji back with Rebecca and her daughter, Coco, after his 6wk castration period is over, that Rebecca won't turn against Coco as Benji will be smelling and humping her too as that's what seemed to bother her with Little Mrs.

I had put Rebecca's other daughter, Oreo, with Little Mrs (who is very easy going and gets on with everyone pretty much) so that she wouldn't be lonely but if I put her with Rebecca in the playpen then she will attack her so I have to take her out. Despite Coco not even living in the same cage, Little Mrs doesn't have a problem if she is in the playpen and they all play nice. Basically, Rebecca is a bitch and my friend gave her that name because apparently there was a woman who was that and called that in a film he saw once lol

The 4 boars worked for a while, well whilst they were all babies, but once Billy became a teenager then it got a bit unsettled. All the other boars would rumblestrutt him and 2 of them would also chatter their teeth. The other 3 got along well, they were father, Snoopy, and 2 sons so maybe that helped. I gave one son away now so have father and 1 son left and aside from the odd squabble and humping occasionally, they seem to get along well. Snoopy even goes to the edge of the cage and calls out for him if he hears him squeak - like when I put him in a freshly bedded cage alone and Snoopy was in the one to be cleaned. I notice Snoopy would always look out for those two especially so I guess they are part of his 'crew' lol

 

[Wiebke]

Rebecca is obviously very dominant. I would recommend to just have her with Benji and have Coco live with Little Mrs in a less dominant group or to have Rebecca live as undisputed top sow in larger group of sows with a neutered husboar (small groups from about 4-5 piggies have different dynamics to a trio, then again larger groups from 6-7 piggies onwards), but in that case, you will have to sit out some major dominance behaviour for a few weeks until things settle down and not interfere. Make sure that you do not have any hideys with just one exit in the cage and plenty of space and well spaced apart food bowls if you try to form a group. There also needs to be access to hay from more than one side.

In my experience, sows need to be good friends if they are to form a happy trio with a neutered boar; from what you are saying I doubt that Rebecca will work out in a trio.

Please have a careful read through the information threads at the top of the behaviour section to understand better what is going on.

 

[worried val of york]

I am taking my 6 month old boar to the vet this afternoon as I believe my 3 year old has bitten his front paw causing it to swell badly. I am hoping everything goes OK at the vet and there is no major damage. I am thinking I will have to separate them. They have been together 4 months and seem to have tolerated each other up to this weekend. It is such a shame for them and a worry for me.

 

[PiggyOinkOink]

I am taking my 6 month old boar to the vet this afternoon as I believe my 3 year old has bitten his front paw causing it to swell badly. I am hoping everything goes OK at the vet and there is no major damage. I am thinking I will have to separate them. They have been together 4 months and seem to have tolerated each other up to this weekend. It is such a shame for them and a worry for me.

Aww hope he is ok and it wasn't the other boar..sounds like it was a deep cut? Let us know what the vet thinks.

 

[stripeybeanie]

Haha sorry the image of piggies around a table sorting things out made me giggle!

Me too!

 

[stripeybeanie]

I am taking my 6 month old boar to the vet this afternoon as I believe my 3 year old has bitten his front paw causing it to swell badly. I am hoping everything goes OK at the vet and there is no major damage. I am thinking I will have to separate them. They have been together 4 months and seem to have tolerated each other up to this weekend. It is such a shame for them and a worry for me.

Good luck with your boys, hope his paw gets better soon

 

[TAN]

Good luck - i have two boars who fell out - then both my original pair of sows needed spaying within a few months of each other = so each boar ended up with a wifepig!

 

[worried val of york]

Well I have separated my two boars. The vet says my younger boar had been bitten under his chin. I am taking him back next Monday for an xray on his foot, the vet couldn't see any puncture marks. He says the swelling of one of his claws could be a an aggressive abcess. As it's his front paw that could mean bad news for the little pig. I am hoping it is not and both pigs are now in their own separate C and C enclosure, I will wait a few months (if things work out OK) and try bonding again when the younger one hopefully grows out of the teenage phase and calms down a bit. I cannot get a female as I also have two 4 year old successfully bonded boars who might have a few issues if a female entered their room.