Guinea Pig Urinary Issues

[Shellybelly72]

Hello I'm Michelle and I have 2 gorgeous piggies that are 6 months old (females) I have seen a local vet with them both, with one of them Millie who has been whining in pain when weeing. She has no blood ( I've had her on a white blanket) and my first instinct was UTI - vet has given baytril and metacam and after one week, I then returned with her.
He explained that he could not feel any kidney stones - nor was she whining at all at the vets. I persuaded vet to let me continue with treatment for a further week (that was last Thursday) she is gaining weight and eating/drinking normally. He agreed so that a UTI could be ruled out.
Today is Sunday, so she had not had any medication for 4 days. She has returned to looking uncomfortable on my lap and whining again - I gave her metacam only - as vet wanted me to do. (my pig is usually non verbal) this one of the two anyway - unless the fridge door opens..
I'm now noticing white marks on the fleece liners in their large pen area - can anyone advise me as to what to expect this is please? I have tried really hard to give a low calcium diet as I don't want to agitate this.
My vet is suggesting XRays as my next option - my worry is then an operation..he has not tested her urine..any thought much appreciated!

 

[Swissgreys]

In that situation I would be tempted to got for x-rays as this is really the only way to properly rule out stones or sludge.
If you have an appointment booked for x-rays I would take along a fresh urine sample at the same time, to cover as many bases as possible.

Good luck - it sounds like you are doing everyone possible for your girl, so hopefully you can resolve the issue soon.

 

[Free Ranger]

You have sows - this is on your side. An operation is not necessarily the next step! But I would have the x-ray, if only to rule things out...

Sows can often pass stones or sludge on their own depending on where the problem is and how bad. We often imagine a giant boulder bouncing round in the bladder but it might just be a bit of grit or some painfully sharp tiny crystals. But it's important to find out. My fat girl has an occasional bout of gritty pee which makes her uncomfortable for a couple of days. We deal with it as it arises with twice daily metacam. I try and make her diet as 'wet' as possible by soaking her veggies etc. and she had a one-a-day glucosamine lozenge to protect her battered bladder. So far this has sorted her out.
Previously we had a little sow who piddled out a bladder stone in a dollop of blood. X-ray showed either another stone or an accumulation of calcium grit in the bladder. She was given an opioid painkilling injection and then a large fluid bolus (like 10 or 15 ml) was injected just under the shoulder skin. She was totally stoned but peed like a tap and flushed everything clear. My current vet prefers a 'relaxing' injection rather than the opioid as a gentler was of treating this as my poor girl couldn't eat while she was under the influence!

Another girl was found to have a massive stone actually wedged in her urethra which the vet manually extracted with forceps - unpleasant but very quick and no op required. My boar recently had a narrow escape when a giant stone formed within his penis which was again just squeezed out by the vet. I say 'just' - obvs George thought it was a bit more significant - but no after effects if you see what I mean!

The 3 causes that crop up on here for painful pees are UTI, stones, and something called Sterile Interstitial Cystitis (SIC). These are not mutually exclusive so for example you can get stones and a UTI together. SIC is less common, not properly understood, and trickier to deal with so put that to one side for now - although by all means have a google on the forum to find out more. UTI is pretty common and the easiest to deal with thanks to modern medicine although not always straightforward. One of my girls had antibiotics for nearly 3 weeks, then it came back within a week, then another 3 weeks of AB were needed to clear it! And my vet didn't seem to think that was uncommon! So a word on ABs. If you have an infection you should start to see a difference within the first couple of days. AB start to work straight away but can take a little while to knock down the numbers of bacteria. So if you see an improvement in symptoms within the first 24-72 hours (and usually within a day) it looks like you've got the right treatment. But ALWAYS complete the course! Sometimes 5 days, sometimes 10, sometimes longer. Some pigs have to take these things for life (although not for UTI). If she has no symptoms while on AB but they return within a few days of finishing the course it can be that there is partial resistance - some bacteria have escaped and are just multiplying again. But you can re-do the course (like we did) or use an alternative antibiotic and you should see the same pattern - symptoms disappearing within a day or so of beginning the AB. What you have to watch for is when they don't. If after 3 days on AB you don't see any change it's tempting to think it's just because you haven't completed the course but you should in this case contact the vet again because either your bug is resistant to that AB (so they won't have any effect) or you haven't got a bug and it's something else like stones or SIC (so they won't have any effect) if you see what I mean. We had this once - no change after 3 days - I called the vet and they straight off prescribed an alternative AB and that one worked - symptoms subsided within a the next 24 hours. So what pattern of symptoms did you see?

Good luck and stay calm - it's horrible to see them squeak in pain as they pee but right now it's something that can be managed and she's still gaining weight so the pain isn't stopping her eating. Can I just ask, did you see a wet bottom end or a 'dirty' looking bum? Or was it just the squeaking?

 

[Shellybelly72]

You have sows - this is on your side. An operation is not necessarily the next step! But I would have the x-ray, if only to rule things out...

Sows can often pass stones or sludge on their own depending on where the problem is and how bad. We often imagine a giant boulder bouncing round in the bladder but it might just be a bit of grit or some painfully sharp tiny crystals. But it's important to find out. My fat girl has an occasional bout of gritty pee which makes her uncomfortable for a couple of days. We deal with it as it arises with twice daily metacam. I try and make her diet as 'wet' as possible by soaking her veggies etc. and she had a one-a-day glucosamine lozenge to protect her battered bladder. So far this has sorted her out.
Previously we had a little sow who piddled out a bladder stone in a dollop of blood. X-ray showed either another stone or an accumulation of calcium grit in the bladder. She was given an opioid painkilling injection and then a large fluid bolus (like 10 or 15 ml) was injected just under the shoulder skin. She was totally stoned but peed like a tap and flushed everything clear. My current vet prefers a 'relaxing' injection rather than the opioid as a gentler was of treating this as my poor girl couldn't eat while she was under the influence!

Another girl was found to have a massive stone actually wedged in her urethra which the vet manually extracted with forceps - unpleasant but very quick and no op required. My boar recently had a narrow escape when a giant stone formed within his penis which was again just squeezed out by the vet. I say 'just' - obvs George thought it was a bit more significant - but no after effects if you see what I mean!

The 3 causes that crop up on here for painful pees are UTI, stones, and something called Sterile Interstitial Cystitis (SIC). These are not mutually exclusive so for example you can get stones and a UTI together. SIC is less common, not properly understood, and trickier to deal with so put that to one side for now - although by all means have a google on the forum to find out more. UTI is pretty common and the easiest to deal with thanks to modern medicine although not always straightforward. One of my girls had antibiotics for nearly 3 weeks, then it came back within a week, then another 3 weeks of AB were needed to clear it! And my vet didn't seem to think that was uncommon! So a word on ABs. If you have an infection you should start to see a difference within the first couple of days. AB start to work straight away but can take a little while to knock down the numbers of bacteria. So if you see an improvement in symptoms within the first 24-72 hours (and usually within a day) it looks like you've got the right treatment. But ALWAYS complete the course! Sometimes 5 days, sometimes 10, sometimes longer. Some pigs have to take these things for life (although not for UTI). If she has no symptoms while on AB but they return within a few days of finishing the course it can be that there is partial resistance - some bacteria have escaped and are just multiplying again. But you can re-do the course (like we did) or use an alternative antibiotic and you should see the same pattern - symptoms disappearing within a day or so of beginning the AB. What you have to watch for is when they don't. If after 3 days on AB you don't see any change it's tempting to think it's just because you haven't completed the course but you should in this case contact the vet again because either your bug is resistant to that AB (so they won't have any effect) or you haven't got a bug and it's something else like stones or SIC (so they won't have any effect) if you see what I mean. We had this once - no change after 3 days - I called the vet and they straight off prescribed an alternative AB and that one worked - symptoms subsided within a the next 24 hours. So what pattern of symptoms did you see?

Good luck and stay calm - it's horrible to see them squeak in pain as they pee but right now it's something that can be managed and she's still gaining weight so the pain isn't stopping her eating. Can I just ask, did you see a wet bottom end or a 'dirty' looking bum? Or was it just the squeaking?

She does often have a wet bottom end, so this helps me to know she is weeing - but she is long haired too. I dry her if needed with a paper towel. I also constantly ensure the bedding is changed often as they both have a underbed box with paper and lots of bedding hay which is soaked daily. But the fleeces can be soaked as well, around the cage and then I do a full change out each morning.

 

[Shellybelly72]

It is mainly the squeaking and she wants to lay down on her side on my lap. She cannot get comfortable (without the metacam) I stroke her (head only) as I know she's in pain as she squeaks and then lays down again or resorts to standing on all fours. All back end is looking clean, fringe fur is wet this morning.

 

[Shellybelly72]

How can I collect a fresh urine sample plz?

 

[Swissgreys]

How can I collect a fresh urine sample plz?

The best way is to place them in a large, clean plastic container - I use a small under-bed storage tub.
Then feed them a few pieces of wet lettuce or cucumber and sit back and wait with your syringe ready.
As soon as they pee suck it up into a clean syringe (the vet will usually give you one) and then put it straight into a sterile urine sample pot (again ask the vet).
If you have a long time before your appointment then pop it in the fridge until you leave, but fresher is better.

Good luck - it can take a bit of time, but you will get there.

 

[Shellybelly72]

Thanks - that's really helpful

 

[Shellybelly72]

Free Ranger - could you please tell me how to start her on glucosamine, I have lozenges pic below - thank you

 

[Free Ranger]

Oh I'm sorry I should have been more specific - we use Oxbow joint support for guinea pigs. Look on Amazon. They're not cheap though.



These are like a little biscuit-y thing that they can crunch. I use these because George also has arthritis. They do a 'urinary support' version in a white and yellow packet but this only has 45mg glucosamine whereas the joint support has 90mg. Other people use something called Feliway cystease (it's a cat one) or 4joints (aimed at dogs) but because we use this as a daily thing for George we also give half a one to Louise for her grit. My third pig doesn't like them and actually looked so downcast when the others were crunching away that we got the 'urinary' one for her because she'll eat that! I don't know if Louise has this issue because she was obvs bred for her looks, or whether it's because she's a pellet monster and takes more than her fair share of the restricted amount we now use - but we use a very low calcium 'soft' bottled water for them to try and reduce the calcium intake as much as possible. Some people filter - but our tap water is so high in Ca that wouldn't reduce it to the bottle water levels!

Glucosamine is a food supplement rather than a medication - it isn't a cure and it can take a few weeks to kick in but it does help both for arthritis and bladders. I started it by accident when I inherited half a bag from someone whose rabbit had passed. My boy with the stiff knees was more mobile after 2 weeks but I put it down to my imagination - after 4 weeks he was trotting like a youngster and has been doing well ever since. I'm a big fan, though I'm not a 'supplement-y' sort of person normally.

Wet bums are a bit of a red flag for urinary issues which is why I asked - although long hair does complicate the issue. With boars it's wet tums. UTI (or a wedged stone etc) causes inflammation and pain when peeing so two things happen. Inflammation causes dripping and dribbling. Also Piggie tries to hold it in because it hurts and you can get a bit of an overflow. If you can, trim up the overhanging bum fur and back leg feathers so that if she's peeing normally she should appear dry - or at least dryer. My long haired one often has pee stains on her white back end but she's only wet when she's just been - if you know what I mean. It's the constant drip drip that keeps them wet. Also keep an eye on those back feet for the tell-tale pink of urine scald. Louise caught me out with that even without a UTI as she's my first long-hair!

Good luck x

 

[Shellybelly72]

That's brilliant ! Thank you so much for your invaluable help - I do appreciate it!

 

[Shellybelly72]

Hi everyone, I had a call from the vet yesterday. I explained that I needed to book Millie for the xray appt.
Vet told me this would be £137 but may well also need to perform an ultrasound as well at a further £78.
I am unable to pay for both right now. But wondered if this was standard practice?
I'm confused as I though I was being asked to choose between the two options initially...vet explained that xray would enable any stones to be seen, ultrasound would pick up a mass (eg.sludge) but this seems extortionate..
Anyone able to advise

 

[Piggies&buns]

Charges vary from practice to practice and with costs of everything going up, so is vet care.
Have they said whether they may need to use sedation, as that will obviously affect any cost

 

[Shellybelly72]

Yes they don't know I'd she will need anesthetic bur if so I'll be charged in addition. I guess what I'm asking is has anyone has experience in needing both a Xray and an ultrasound as well?

 

[Free Ranger]

No - we've always had one or the other. It's been x-ray for stones. Our x-ray is about £50-£60 but that's conscious - piggy is firmly swaddled in a towel. Some vets might give "a whiff of gas" if they want to turn piggy and take a snap from another direction (which may well increase the cost), but usually x-ray has shown what we're dealing with. Ask about the anaesthetic - if it's anything more significant than the gas make sure they know what they're doing as any GA is a bit of a risk for small furries. Ask how long she'll be under, whether she'll be able to eat as soon as she comes round etc. One of my piggy savvy vets does prefer to put them under and take a snap from two directions which she says helps her to tell whether any white dot that shows up is a true stone or 'just' sludge. But if the x-ray doesn't show up anything then you're back to weighing up UTI or SIC...

Ultrasound has it's uses but piggy is usually shaved and gel applied to the area - which they don't like! We've only had it when we suspected something wrong inside the abdomen but we didn't really know what. And actually it didn't tell us anything on that occasion anyway.

 

[piggieminder]

All vets vary in price.
I've just had one of mine xrayed (full body) £388, no stones or sludge showed up but vet explained they don't always show on xray. Next step if symptoms persist is a CT scan at £800, blood, urine and poop tests at £120 each. My vets don't use ultra sound if xray doesn't show anything, they would go straight to CT.